What if Brady folds?

robertweathers said:

The other 31 and their relationships with him impact his revenues so yes.

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Really, you're just making it up. What damages the NFL brand is naming the Super Bowl Champs cheaters when they are not.

I'm waiting for those other 31 teams to emulate Bendover Bob's brilliant business move her by lining up to be called a cheater, lose a 1st and a 4th and pay 1 million in cash. That's a about to happen in 3, 2, 1 . . . .

I wonder if tom thinks folding is best for him and the other 31 QBs bahaha

Don't do it tom.

I see Kraft's moves as pure laziness. He is older now and didn't feel like fighting at the owners meetings and arguing and such. So he took the easy way out. There is no truth to his words.

1) The issue probably won't go away - even if Tom's suspension is reduced to nothing. You can bet his agent and lawyer want to take the NFL to court - just to hurt them and expose their unfairness. Discovery alone will do that - you do not even need to win.

2) It's not good for the NFL for its teams to accept punishments that don't fit crimes - or punishments in the absence of crime.

3) This is actually the SECOND time Kraft has laid down. Most people outside of diehard Patriot fans don't understand Spygate and how the Commish is not supposed to set down football rules. This is like your building manager setting down rules instead of the Condo/Co-op board. So this is a pattern with Kraft - not some attempt to aid the Pats in the long run. No good came out of Spygate for the Pats.

skinnydog said:

Really, you're just making it up. What damages the NFL brand is naming the Super Bowl Champs cheaters when they are not.

I'm waiting for those other 31 teams to emulate Bendover Bob's brilliant business move her by lining up to be called a cheater, lose a 1st and a 4th and pay 1 million in cash. That's a about to happen in 3, 2, 1 . . . .

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Did Spygate impact NFL and Patriots revenues in 2007? How about since then?

robertweathers said:

The other 31 and their relationships with him impact his revenues so yes.

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So your argument is that if Kraft chosen to exercise his rights, like Jones, Snyder and Spanos did an appeal, the other 31 owners would be so mad that they would conspire to make less money so Krafts 3% of the pie went down?
Does anyone do things that make sense in your version of reality?

AndyJohnson said:

So your argument is that if Kraft chosen to exercise his rights, like Jones, Snyder and Spanos did an appeal, the other 31 owners would be so mad that they would conspire to make less money so Krafts 3% of the pie went down?
Does anyone do things that make sense in your version of reality?

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Why respond that way, Andy? You know damn well I don't live on Fantasy Island like the other fanboys on this board.

Bob believes the collective power of the 32 teams is their negotiating position with sponsors, the networks, etc. I do not think that they would conspire to squirral money away from Bob because he is challenging Goody's authority. I do think he loses friends by going after Goody and more friends, standing in league business matters and business associates if he files an antitrust suit.

You would also agree that this issue serves the political agenda of the league which by default influences the owner's league interests. Bob didn't have the support. Period. The salary cap issue doesn't even come close.

Theoretically Bob could cause major damage to Goody and the league but would make enemies and lose money in the process.

I understand that you support him appealing but in a war, it doesn't make sense to fight a battle if you have no intention of winning the war. In short, he cut his losses.

Clearly, Bob didn't have the stomach or the patience for either.

robertweathers said:

Why respond that way, Andy? You know damn well I don't live on Fantasy Island like the other fanboys on this board.

Bob believes the collective power of the 32 teams is their negotiating position with sponsors, the networks, etc. I do not think that they would conspire to squirral money away from Bob because he is challenging Goody's authority. I do think he loses friends by going after Goody and more friends, standing in league business matters and business associates if he files an antitrust suit.

You would also agree that this issue serves the political agenda of the league which by default influences the owner's league interests. Bob didn't have the support. Period. The salary cap issue doesn't even come close.

Theoretically Bob could cause major damage to Goody and the league but would make enemies and lose money in the process.

I understand that you support him appealing but in a war, it doesn't make sense to fight a battle if you have no intention of winning the war. In short, he cut his losses.

Clearly, Bob didn't have the stomach or the patience for either.

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Kraft's final position is perfectly reasonable from his financial point of view. Of course it is diametrically opposed to what he initially presented and that of best interests of the team and its fans. What the fans are angry about are his craven reversal of position and disgusting exhibition of supplication to the POS and the gang of 31. As history proves appeasement to a dictator only encourages further demands. He didn't learn that lesson in 2007 and only to repeat now despite brave talk. We can only hope that the next time this happens and it will, the owner of the Pats is a person with the cajones to stand up for the team and its fans.

flasox27 said:

Kraft's final position is perfectly reasonable from his financial point of view. Of course it is diametrically opposed to what he initially presented and that of best interests of the team and its fans. What the fans are angry about are his craven reversal of position and disgusting exhibition of supplication to the POS and the gang of 31. As history proves appeasement to a dictator only encourages further demands. He didn't learn that lesson in 2007 and only to repeat now despite brave talk. We can only hope that the next time this happens and it will, the owner of the Pats is a person with the cajones to stand up for the team and its fans.

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I agree 100%. Bob enabled and empowered Goody.

But for matter of public record Bob never stated publicly of his intention to wage war vs the league and Goody. He deftly tested the waters and decided against fighting. Was it cowardly? Sure. Did he piss off his core fan base? Absolutely. As you say, it was a logical financial decision that allowed him to achieve a desired financial outcome and manage his business risk.

robertweathers said:

I agree 100%. Bob enabled and empowered Goody.

But for matter of public record Bob never stated publicly of his intention to wage was vs the league and Goody. He deftly tested the waters and decided against fighting. Was it cowardly? Sure. Did he piss off his core fan base? Absolutely. As you say, it was a logical financial decision that allowed him to achieve a desired financial outcome and manage his business risk.

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I agree he made a business decision which has repercussions. He shouldn't be surprised that the repercussions involved the loss of goodwill among the fans to say the least which may have a financial downside also.

flasox27 said:

I agree he made a business decision which has repercussions. He shouldn't be surprised that the repercussions involved the loss of goodwill among the fans to say the least which may have a financial downside also.

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Agreed.

Thats why I am skeptical that this whole ordeal will have minimal financial impact on the regional and global fanbase. In retrospect, Spygate was far more painful than this idiocy. With that said, the Pats revenues and valuation have increased almost ten-fold since 07.

Gotta speculate what the core motivation was in this whole thing was....

I felt incredibly betrayed by Kraft when he decided not to fight the penalties, but I have calmed on that stance. I am sure that Kraft bought this team when they where borderline laughing stock of the NFL. He then spent $325 million of his own money to build the stadium(IMO, he gets a pass when the best interest of the organization at heart). My thoughts are that he accepted the punishment because he knows that Brady will win the appeal and then he everyone will once again look at Goodell like the idiot he is.

I believe that Kraft is picking his battle and felt that this was not a battle that would provide a great deal of benefit. "But the draft picks", got to be honest in the grand scheme not a deal breaker. He was one of the driving forces behind the new CBA getting done. I trust his judgement even though it may seem flawed at the time For the record I would have fought the penalties.

I will be shocked if Brady folds, but if he does I will continue to support the best team and QB in the league.

robertweathers said:

Why respond that way, Andy? You know damn well I don't live on Fantasy Island like the other fanboys on this board.

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Because you said that it would hurt him financially, and I am trying to understand how that would be.
Appealing his case would not detract revenue from the league. You seemed to imply it would cost him money if the other 31 were mad at him. I do not see how.

Bob believes the collective power of the 32 teams is their negotiating position with sponsors, the networks, etc. I do not think that they would conspire to squirral money away from Bob because he is challenging Goody's authority. I do think he loses friends by going after Goody and more friends, standing in league business matters and business associates if he files an antitrust suit.

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We know he put the other 31 ahead of his team. You claim if he didnt it would hurt him financially and I just don't see how.
Being friends or not being friends has no impact on that.
Anti-trust? Do you even know what that means? He wouldnt challenge the anti-trust in court, he would challenge the Wells report, its findings and the level of punishment. However its still a strawman because no one is saying he should sue the league.

You would also agree that this issue serves the political agenda of the league which by default influences the owner's league interests. Bob didn't have the support. Period. The salary cap issue doesn't even come close.

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No I wouldn't. How does unjustly punishing the Patriots help any agenda?
He doesn't need support he has the right to appeal. He CHOSE the other owners wishes over what is best for his team, and he gets absolultely nothing out of it.

Theoretically Bob could cause major damage to Goody and the league but would make enemies and lose money in the process.

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There you go again saying he would lose money. He wouldn't. Please show one way he would lose money by appealing the findings and penalty.

I understand that you support him appealing but in a war, it doesn't make sense to fight a battle if you have no intention of winning the war. In short, he cut his losses.

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You are saying he didn't want to win? He likes the screwing the Pats got?

Clearly, Bob didn't have the stomach or the patience for either.

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Or the balls.

I am at the point and I am sure a lot of us are where I simply want to hear from our beloved QB. Whenever that time arrives.

[cynical humor mode engaged] He can make origami?

AndyJohnson said:

Because you said that it would hurt him financially, and I am trying to understand how that would be.
Appealing his case would not detract revenue from the league. You seemed to imply it would cost him money if the other 31 were mad at him. I do not see how.

We know he put the other 31 ahead of his team. You claim if he didnt it would hurt him financially and I just don't see how.
Being friends or not being friends has no impact on that.
Anti-trust? Do you even know what that means? He wouldnt challenge the anti-trust in court, he would challenge the Wells report, its findings and the level of punishment. However its still a strawman because no one is saying he should sue the league.


No I wouldn't. How does unjustly punishing the Patriots help any agenda?
He doesn't need support he has the right to appeal. He CHOSE the other owners wishes over what is best for his team, and he gets absolultely nothing out of it.


There you go again saying he would lose money. He wouldn't. Please show one way he would lose money by appealing the findings and penalty.


You are saying he didn't want to win? He likes the screwing the Pats got?


Or the balls.

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I'm way past the appeal process, Andy. You think there is value appealing. Thats fine. In this circumstance Bob thinks its a waste of time and wanted to avoid any further indignation and not draw this out any further. The Wells report context was the foundation for that appeal and a trial balloon to determine if he had a good chance at an appeal. I suspect Bob chatted with Goody and others and was told that the sanctions would most likely be upheld. That's when Bob decided to fold up his tent.

I'm well aware what an antitrust suit is Andy. I think you may be underestimating the impact it would have on how divisive it would make the owners and weaken the NFL. That in turn weakens their overall brand and compromises them during negotiations with sponsors, networks, advertisers and the NFLPA.

robertweathers said:

I'm way past the appeal process, Andy. You think there is value appealing. Thats fine. In this circumstance Bob thinks its a waste of time and wanted to avoid any further indignation and not draw this out any further. The Wells report context was the foundation for that appeal and a trial balloon to determine if he had a good chance at an appeal. I suspect Bob chatted with Goody and others and was told that the sanctions would most likely be upheld. That's when Bob decided to fold up his tent.

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Then why do you continue to argue he wasn't wrong?

I'm well aware what an antitrust suit is Andy. I think you may be underestimating the impact it would have on how divisive it would make the owners and weaken the NFL. That in turn weakens their overall brand and compromises them during negotiations with sponsors, networks, advertisers and the NFLPA.

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Kraft would not be suing under the anti-trust exemption. I don't know where you got that from.

Its fine, Kraft turned on The Help to protect The Elite. I don't know why you feel you need to make excuses for that. You either support it or don't but making up things that didn't happen in order to feel better about it is silly.

AndyJohnson said:

Then why do you continue to argue he wasn't wrong?


Kraft would not be suing under the anti-trust exemption. I don't know where you got that from.

Its fine, Kraft turned on The Help to protect The Elite. I don't know why you feel you need to make excuses for that. You either support it or don't but making up things that didn't happen in order to feel better about it is silly.

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I'm not making excuses. As a fan I hate that Bob caved. I sent the letter that I wrote. I didn't receive back a reply. I expected as much but it still pissed me off.

However it frustrates me that people fail to acknowledge that by appeal process was a waste of time and suing the NFL was a long painful road. As a businessman who is not worth $4.3b, I understand why he did what he did. Billy Sullivan sued the NFL in an antitrust suit and won. Great. How did that work out?

I'm trying to bring a little balance to this forum. If you don't agree that's fine.

robertweathers said:

I'm not making excuses. As a fan I hate that Bob caved. I sent the letter that I wrote. I didn't receive back a reply. I expected as much but it still pissed me off.

However it frustrates me that people fail to acknowledge that by appeal process was a waste of time and suing the NFL was a long painful road. As a businessman who is not worth $4.3b, I understand why he did what he did. Billy Sullivan sued the NFL in an antitrust suit and won. Great. How did that work out?

I'm trying to bring a little balance to this forum. If you don't agree that's fine.

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I think we all understand the financial motivation for Kraft not to fight his fellow owners. Just dislike him for BS'ng the fans and claiming it was for the good of the team or fans. Most fans right now in my opinion hope Brady and the NFLPA destroy Goodell, the gang of 32 including Kraft, and the NFL in court regardless of consequences to the Putz and his pals.

If he "folds," I'll believe that he did what he thought was in his best self-interest, for reasons that I might or might not ever know.

If he fold, I guess I'm cheering for Garoppolo for at least a few games