Kraft and other sports figures despised in Boston

DarrylS · May 24, 2015

I despise Victor Kiam, Billy Sullivan and James Orthwein as they were idiotic owners.. and although I do not like what Mr. Kraft did, I cannot despise him... he has allowed this franchise to flourish in some very rarified air.

flasox27 · May 24, 2015

TruthSeeker said:
I figure I should step up and take the anger of my fellow Pat fans.

I've been reading the vitriol expressed and just don't get it. So if Bob Kraft filed a near hopeless appeal and lost he'd continue to be a hero?

From my (and I expect his) perspective, what he did was agree that prolonging the story of owner vs. Commissioner was a lose/lose/lose situation for the NFL, the Commissioner and the media focus. Yes, it would have made Patriot fans (including me) feel better about things, but it wasn't going to accomplish much, if anything, from a practical perspective.

I guess it's all about image and I'm a bottom line guy. Patriot fans feel betrayed because they had their heart set on Kraft fighting all-out in what was essentially an unwinable war (for him; Brady has excellent chances to win). I never shared that expectation. I love the Wells Report Context site and believe that Kraft pretty much did what he could to share the truth with his press conferences backing Brady/Belichick and the context response. It's clear (to me anyway) that Kraft continues to believe what he has believed from the beginning - the Patriots did nothing wrong.

Kraft made a decision that will likely allow him to continue his influence with other NFL owners (which I can only see as a good thing). Evidently the cost included alienating most of his fan base. Hopefully, the passage of time may allow what I think would be a more reasoned response to Kraft's actions which I don't see as treasoness or even an about-face - just a position that acknowledges a lost situation and tries to salvage something from it which can be used down the road.

Feel free to dislike/disagree. I hope you won't hold it against me that I see this differently but I thought it was worth being honest in what I think.

Kraft's influence among the owners is non-existent based on what he has done to benefit the team and fans unless you consider being the whipping boy and laughing stock to be positives. He however does make money for himself and his partners but that has no bearing on the team or its fans.

RobertWeathers · May 24, 2015

TruthSeeker said:
I figure I should step up and take the anger of my fellow Pat fans.

I've been reading the vitriol expressed and just don't get it. So if Bob Kraft filed a near hopeless appeal and lost he'd continue to be a hero?

From my (and I expect his) perspective, what he did was agree that prolonging the story of owner vs. Commissioner was a lose/lose/lose situation for the NFL, the Commissioner and the media focus. Yes, it would have made Patriot fans (including me) feel better about things, but it wasn't going to accomplish much, if anything, from a practical perspective.

I guess it's all about image and I'm a bottom line guy. Patriot fans feel betrayed because they had their heart set on Kraft fighting all-out in what was essentially an unwinable war (for him; Brady has excellent chances to win). I never shared that expectation. I love the Wells Report Context site and believe that Kraft pretty much did what he could to share the truth with his press conferences backing Brady/Belichick and the context response. It's clear (to me anyway) that Kraft continues to believe what he has believed from the beginning - the Patriots did nothing wrong.

Kraft made a decision that will likely allow him to continue his influence with other NFL owners (which I can only see as a good thing). Evidently the cost included alienating most of his fan base. Hopefully, the passage of time may allow what I think would be a more reasoned response to Kraft's actions which I don't see as treasoness or even an about-face - just a position that acknowledges a lost situation and tries to salvage something from it which can be used down the road.

Feel free to dislike/disagree. I hope you won't hold it against me that I see this differently but I thought it was worth being honest in what I think.

Nope. I think you are dead on. All the reasons you cite Bob giving up the fight were about money, IMO. I don't have an issue with that. Is it worth appealing over draft picks? Sure. Is it worth an antitrust suit and millions of dollars in court costs and bad blood with the owners? I don't think so.

Bob made his bed with Goody. Now he needs to lie in it.

RobertWeathers · May 24, 2015

TheFlyingWedge said:
I hated Bob Stanley more than Buckner for the '86 Series loss. The guy was a colossal bum and should never have been on the mound to begin with.

They didn't have many options. Shag Crawford? Oil Can? Not very deep.

1960Pats · May 24, 2015

sieglo said:
Besides Kraft, who are other hometown sports figures we've come to despise?

Bill Buckner comes to mind....

I wouldn't blame Buckner as much as I'd blame the manager for letting him stay in the game.

1960Pats · May 24, 2015

DarrylS said:
I despise Victor Kiam, Billy Sullivan and James Orthwein as they were idiotic owners.. and although I do not like what Mr. Kraft did, I cannot despise him... he has allowed this franchise to flourish in some very rarified air.

You really think Kraft is responsible for the quality of the play on the field? IMHO that has everything to do with the B&B show. Once Kraft stopped meddling in the football operation, like he did with Parcells, and Brady and Belichick came along, then his team became great.

tuckeverlasting · May 24, 2015

1960Pats said:
I wouldn't blame Buckner as much as I'd blame the manager for letting him stay in the game.

mcnamara gets my ire

RobertWeathers · May 24, 2015

1960Pats said:
I wouldn't blame Buckner as much as I'd blame the manager for letting him stay in the game.

Mac shoulda put in Dave Stapleton like he did for every game in Sept and throughout the postseason.

However, Buck did get to the ball but the real issue is that fat ass Stanley would never have gotten to first before Mookie Wilson

DarrylS · May 24, 2015

1960Pats said:
You really think Kraft is responsible for the quality of the play on the field? IMHO that has everything to do with the B&B show. Once Kraft stopped meddling in the football operation, like he did with Parcells, and Brady and Belichick came along, then his team became great.

Allowing something to happen is a conscious decision... many teams have meddling owners, Jerry Jones from Dallas, Snyder from DC etc. have produced mediocre results.

You can argue this from many different perspectives, but Kraft created an environment in which he allowed this winning culture to exist.. from a decent stadium, to great practice facilities, to great locker rooms, training areas, meeting rooms etc.

Mack Herron · May 24, 2015

DarrylS said:
I despise Victor Kiam, Billy Sullivan and James Orthwein as they were idiotic owners.. and although I do not like what Mr. Kraft did, I cannot despise him... he has allowed this franchise to flourish in some very rarified air.

With all respect, I believe you have it 180 degrees wrong. Sullivan et al. were merely blundering oafs, but none of them ever willfully placed their own team at a competitive disadvantage. Credit Kraft with hiring Belichik and getting out of the way. Credit him also with working to seize as much power for the league as possible and subjugating his own team to that power.

RobertWeathers · May 24, 2015

DarrylS said:
Allowing something to happen is a conscious decision... many teams have meddling owners, Jerry Jones from Dallas, Snyder from DC etc. have produced mediocre results.

You can argue this from many different perspectives, but Kraft created an environment in which he allowed this winning culture to exist.. from a decent stadium, to great practice facilities, to great locker rooms, training areas, meeting rooms etc.

Like the other poster you could argue that without BB this franchise is still looking for its 1st Super Bowl.

flasox27 · May 24, 2015

Let me say this about Billy Sullivan. While Kraft gets the credit for keeping football in New England, Billy Sullivan was responsible for it being here in the first place. His problem was that he did not have the financial resources to compete. The fact that his son was a financial idiot cost them the ownership of the team. Sullivan had the guts but not the bucks. Kraft is the opposite.

TruthSeeker · May 24, 2015

robertweathers said:
Nope. I think you are dead on. All the reasons you cite Bob giving up the fight were about money, IMO. I don't have an issue with that. Is it worth appealing over draft picks? Sure. Is it worth an antitrust suit and millions of dollars in court costs and bad blood with the owners? I don't think so.

Bob made his bed with Goody. Now he needs to lie in it.

I don't know Bob Kraft, but money isn't the primary motivation that I ascribed to him. I'm thinking that these were more important motives to him than money:
- influence with other owners
- love for the overall League (preserving the League vs. tearing it down) because of the great game of professional football
Additionally, it wouldn't surprise me if he also believed that his decision would tone down the criticism of the Patriots (although I don't believe that would be the long-term effect).

But maybe I just want to see the best in people.

RobertWeathers · May 24, 2015

TruthSeeker said:
I don't know Bob Kraft, but money isn't the primary motivation that I ascribed to him. I'm thinking that these were more important motives to him than money:
- influence with other owners
- love for the overall League (preserving the League vs. tearing it down) because of the great game of professional football
Additionally, it wouldn't surprise me if he also believed that his decision would tone down the criticism of the Patriots (although I don't believe that would be the long-term effect).

But maybe I just want to see the best in people.

I think you and I discussed this in another thread. I do agree that Bob's legacy is important to him. He wants to be remembered in the same breath as Rooney, Mara and Hunt and not like Davis, Irsay and Snyder. His standing amongst the other owners is also important to him.

I just don't think they are as important as making money or protecting his revenue streams.

ensoul · May 24, 2015

And Kraft has been officially been compared to a person who was convicted of first degree murder, is accused of shooting a witness in the face, and yet accused of another double murder.

I have never heard of anyone being so despised despite helping save a franchise and being a part of 4 championships. Kraft not fighting has make people on this board completely irrational and out of touch with reality.

DarrylS · May 24, 2015

robertweathers said:
Like the other poster you could argue that without BB this franchise is still looking for its 1st Super Bowl.

I do not disagree, however Mr. Kraft allowed this to happen... even after spygate he did not seem to turn his back on BB(another exaggerated crime of the NFL).. he also gave up a 1st to get BB.

What comes first the chicken or the egg???... does not matter, Mr. Kraft has been a good owner, but he did f.. up on this situation, keep on believing that there is more to this story than we know..

Do not agree with or like what Mr. Kraft did, but I do not despise him...

QuantumMechanic · May 24, 2015

TruthSeeker said:
Kraft made a decision that will likely allow him to continue his influence with other NFL owners (which I can only see as a good thing).

WTF do all you Kraft defenders go on and on about how he had to do this because he needs to continue/maintain is "influence" with the other owners?

WTF is the point of having "influence" with the other owners when something like this happens and all the other owners do is support the a**wipe in charge who is screwing you over??

I can only imagine what'd happen if Kraft had even more "influence". They'd probably find him face down in a ditch somewhere.

tuckeverlasting · May 24, 2015

ensoul said:
And Kraft has been officially been compared to a person who was convicted of first degree murder, is accused of shooting a witness in the face, and yet accused of another double murder.

I have never heard of anyone being so despised despite helping save a franchise and being a part of 4 championships. Kraft not fighting has make people on this board completely irrational and out of touch with reality.

obviously kraft hasn't commited any crimes. i can't speak for anyone else but for me it's not about the crimes, it's about the betrayal.

RobertWeathers · May 24, 2015

DarrylS said:
I do not disagree, however Mr. Kraft allowed this to happen... even after spygate he did not seem to turn his back on BB(another exaggerated crime of the NFL).. he also gave up a 1st to get BB.

What comes first the chicken or the egg???... does not matter, Mr. Kraft has been a good owner, but he did f.. up on this situation, keep on believing that there is more to this story than we know..

Do not agree with or like what Mr. Kraft did, but I do not despise him...

I agree with what you have said.

I'm one of those who does believe that something happened/was said between Goody and Bob in SF. Maybe Goody apologized privately and that was good enough for Bob? Maybe there is a double-secret deal in the works? Maybe he talked to Brady's team and they have a better attack angle than Bob which would explain that stupid comment to Larry King.

I just don't think Bob caves in like this without something seismic in nature being brought to his attention.

TruthSeeker · May 24, 2015

robertweathers said:
I think you and I discussed this in another thread. I do agree that Bob's legacy is important to him. He wants to be remembered in the same breath as Rooney, Mara and Hunt and not like Davis, Irsay and Snyder. His standing amongst the other owners is also important to him.

I just don't think they are as important as making money or protecting his revenue streams.

I appreciated your response in the other thread.

Kraft and other sports figures despised in Boston

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