Go Millionaires! Beat the Billionaires!

One overlooked aspect of all of this:

Who do we look at for the "Jockocracy" sportscasting business? The players.
Who picks the "Top 100 players"? The players.
Who do the fans respect, the owners or the players? The players.

The NFLPA is repping Brady in this appeal. Brady was the poster-child for the lockout.

Now he's the poster-child for what the other players in the NFL are sick of (other than losing to the Pats)... the Reign of Error of Roger Goodell.

Now granted, a lot of the players got really sick of losing to him, but most aren't demanding their non-existent rings (who was that, Ward? Bettis?) And everybody who ever said NFL stands for "No Fun League" because this prick Goodell tells them to tuck in their jerseys and such now has an official union action underway against the commish.

Now let's look at the other side: 32 owners - not even just 31 - marching in lockstep.

And let's dare think for a moment what the stakes could be: Exposing the buffoonery of Goodell's "investigation" is tantamount to exposing the buffoonery of the league... it seems that the remaining dynamic has the potential to attract a major following among the players -- especially because most of them think the penalties at the very least are bullsh1t.

Now the NFLPA ain't about to strike over removing Goodell, but I would dearly love to see enough of them grumble in the press that the owners feel the pressure.

It's deluded, but for those looking forward to deluded hopes, this one's even better than reversing the suspension: It goes to court, the NFLPA is backing Brady, and despite the cavalcade of "where there's smoke there's fire he did it" evidence, the players see what is going on especially on the penalty end of it.

So there's my dumb-ass delusional pipedream du jour... what if pressure comes up from the player level as this plays out?

PatsFanInVa said:

Now let's look at the other side: 32 owners - not even just 31 - marching in lockstep.

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I had to quit reading from this point because of the mental pictures that shoved their way into my awareness.

You need an editor. The post length is inversely proportional to the number of people who will read it.

Yet here is your reply.

PatsFanInVa said:

Yet here is your reply.

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Cliff notes VA, Cliff notes...

But for your main purposes

what if pressure comes up from the player level as this plays out?

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Unless there is a sit out, it wont come from bottom up. the owners would have to feel their $$$ threatened in order oust Roger Baddell. If its coming from the bottom, it would have to come from Us Fans

anditsgood said:

Cliff notes VA, Cliff notes...
Unless there is a sit out, it wont come from bottom up. the owners would have to feel their $$$ threatened in order oust Roger Baddell. If its coming from the bottom, it would have to come from Us Fans

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No. You're wrong.

Oh I see you liked that.

As to the OP, I'd have to say that usually you should be so lucky to get novel-length crap of the quality I post on these boards, and all for free.

This time, I was flailing with the mechanism of what can come from it. I was fascinated, however, with the alignment of the interests, from an NFLPA vs NFL* standpoint.

Probably 90% of players will think "Pshh, it's Brady's problem, didn't see him trying to save us Saints' butts during Bountygate or going to bat for our child-beater friend on the Vikings or wife-beater friend on the Ravens."

It is what it is - and I can't even figure out what the pipe-dream outcome is. I do see the alignments of interests coming into formation. I sort of feel a 1% possibility turning into a 5% possibility of something coming of it, based on the alignments.

I don't put a lot of stock in that feeling. It's just out there, in a long-game sense.

PatsFanInVa said:

One overlooked aspect of all of this:

Who do we look at for the "Jockocracy" sportscasting business? The players.
Who picks the "Top 100 players"? The players.
Who do the fans respect, the owners or the players? The players.

The NFLPA is repping Brady in this appeal. Brady was the poster-child for the lockout.

Now he's the poster-child for what the other players in the NFL are sick of (other than losing to the Pats)... the Reign of Error of Roger Goodell.

Now granted, a lot of the players got really sick of losing to him, but most aren't demanding their non-existent rings (who was that, Ward? Bettis?) And everybody who ever said NFL stands for "No Fun League" because this prick Goodell tells them to tuck in their jerseys and such now has an official union action underway against the commish.

Now let's look at the other side: 32 owners - not even just 31 - marching in lockstep.

And let's dare think for a moment what the stakes could be: Exposing the buffoonery of Goodell's "investigation" is tantamount to exposing the buffoonery of the league... it seems that the remaining dynamic has the potential to attract a major following among the players -- especially because most of them think the penalties at the very least are bullsh1t.

Now the NFLPA ain't about to strike over removing Goodell, but I would dearly love to see enough of them grumble in the press that the owners feel the pressure.

It's deluded, but for those looking forward to deluded hopes, this one's even better than reversing the suspension: It goes to court, the NFLPA is backing Brady, and despite the cavalcade of "where there's smoke there's fire he did it" evidence, the players see what is going on especially on the penalty end of it.

So there's my dumb-ass delusional pipedream du jour... what if pressure comes up from the player level as this plays out?

Click to expand...

Is this a riddle?

PatsFanInVa said:

Oh I see you liked that.

As to the OP, I'd have to say that usually you should be so lucky to get novel-length crap of the quality I post on these boards, and all for free.

This time, I was flailing with the mechanism of what can come from it. I was fascinated, however, with the alignment of the interests, from an NFLPA vs NFL* standpoint.

Probably 90% of players will think "Pshh, it's Brady's problem, didn't see him trying to save us Saints' butts during Bountygate or going to bat for our child-beater friend on the Vikings or wife-beater friend on the Ravens."

It is what it is - and I can't even figure out what the pipe-dream outcome is. I do see the alignments of interests coming into formation. I sort of feel a 1% possibility turning into a 5% possibility of something coming of it, based on the alignments.

I don't put a lot of stock in that feeling. It's just out there, in a long-game sense.

Click to expand...

I try to put myself in the shoes of people to understand their perspective but it's hard to understand Kraft or the leagues perspective here. Presumably they really believe that this punishment is good for the league financially and for PR. It strains logic to conclude that backing a replaceable bureaucrat in a witch hunt is better for the league in the long run than giving its most successful player a fair shake.

I think the owners have lost sight of what they have punishments for. Somehow it just became about winning against the players. All they know now is that failing to punish is losing.

PatsFanInVa said:

Oh I see you liked that.

As to the OP, I'd have to say that usually you should be so lucky to get novel-length crap of the quality I post on these boards, and all for free.

This time, I was flailing with the mechanism of what can come from it. I was fascinated, however, with the alignment of the interests, from an NFLPA vs NFL* standpoint.

Probably 90% of players will think "Pshh, it's Brady's problem, didn't see him trying to save us Saints' butts during Bountygate or going to bat for our child-beater friend on the Vikings or wife-beater friend on the Ravens."

It is what it is - and I can't even figure out what the pipe-dream outcome is. I do see the alignments of interests coming into formation. I sort of feel a 1% possibility turning into a 5% possibility of something coming of it, based on the alignments.

I don't put a lot of stock in that feeling. It's just out there, in a long-game sense.

Click to expand...

Maybe as the first step, but unless us fans stand behind them, its all meaningless. i dont think anyone outside of NE will stand with brady, for two reasons, (1) they believe he had a nefarious action behind the deflation of the balls, and (2) the pats success. Jealousy prevents them from seeing the "forest for the trees"

Long posts/novels are fine as long as it stays with one point, when one tries to cover everything in a thread in a single post, it becomes a tldr post

Bobsyouruncle said:

I try to put myself in the shoes of people to understand their perspective but it's hard to understand Kraft or the leagues perspective here. Presumably they really believe that this punishment is good for the league financially and for PR. It strains logic to conclude that backing a replaceable bureaucrat in a witch hunt is better for the league in the long run than giving its most successful player a fair shake.

I think the owners have lost sight of what they have punishments for. Somehow it just became about winning against the players. All they know now is that failing to punish is losing.

Click to expand...

I think you are trying to see though krafts/leagues prespective through a fans fan eyes. If you read most other news, they are presenting crygate errr deflategate as a foregone conclusion (as in pats guilt). I think Roger put his finger in the air and felt how the wind was blowing, He gave in to the mob squad, We are well on our way to becoming the next WWE

anditsgood said:

Maybe as the first step, but unless us fans stand behind them, its all meaningless. i dont think anyone outside of NE will stand with brady, for two reasons, (1) they believe he had a nefarious action behind the deflation of the balls, and (2) the pats success. Jealousy prevents them from seeing the "forest for the trees"

Long posts/novels are fine as long as it stays with one point, when one tries to cover everything in a thread in a single post, it becomes a tldr post

Click to expand...

Just get used to it. It's gonna happen. Don't read them if you don't like them.

PatsFanInVa said:

So there's my dumb-ass delusional pipedream du jour... what if pressure comes up from the player level as this plays out?

Click to expand...

Good thread and not delusional....actually explains punishments. Punishments to appease the fans are short....punishments to appease the other 31 are harsh. Goodell is a babysitter.

Bobsyouruncle said:

I try to put myself in the shoes of people to understand their perspective but it's hard to understand Kraft or the leagues perspective here. Presumably they really believe that this punishment is good for the league financially and for PR. It strains logic to conclude that backing a replaceable bureaucrat in a witch hunt is better for the league in the long run than giving its most successful player a fair shake.

Click to expand...

I think Kraft is what he is on face value, a billionaire owner. I set aside a hopeful sliver of a corner of my mind that he's playing a long game, but I'll believe that when I see it.

I do think he's right that his actions let us just play the games this season much more so than if we had drip-drip-drip coming out of this for the next year.

His motive is to make money, clearly. He's a businessman. I also believe he's a fan. However he is wrong that all fans will accept his logic that "the fans" are best served by what best serves the "billionaire owner fan."

Again - I have said this before - public support for Goodell and the NFL* was going too far. After the buildup he gave us, he should have signalled a hostile rejection. If there's not another move coming, and I doubt there is, the "bury the hatchet" way of presenting this was just enraging.

I think the owners have lost sight of what they have punishments for. Somehow it just became about winning against the players. All they know now is that failing to punish is losing.

Click to expand...

This is the part that fascinates me. After last season's slew of mistakes -- and given that at heart, a lot of players are already like "WHAT? For letting some air out???" (B/c they probably all agree that the Pats actually did that; it's a matter of how they feel about the penalty)... just adds to an existing player discontent.

It's an interesting dynamic to me. This dynamic would not exist were Kraft to align with the team and fans - it would have been 1 team against the others. But now it's NFL* - that is, 32 owners - vs. NFLPA (that is, Brady.)

Like I said, a 1% chance of something happening goes to a 5% chance based on the clear line being drawn in a way that is familiar to so many other players.

PatsFanInVa said:

Just get used to it. It's gonna happen. Don't read them if you don't like them.

Click to expand...

I usually dont, unless you respond to me, then i read the first couple of line.

Sorry you are taking that as a personal attack, it wasnt meant to be

IcyPatriot said:

Good thread and not delusional....actually explains punishments. Punishments to appease the fans are short....punishments to appease the other 31 are harsh. Goodell is a babysitter.

Click to expand...

I like the phrase "appease the other 31" as the definition of the marketing term Integrity-of-the-Game™

anditsgood said:

I usually dont, unless you respond to me, then i read the first couple of line.

Sorry you are taking that as a personal attack, it wasnt meant to be

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It's all good. I edit people for a living. I get verbose here.

The atheist doubts in the daytime, and believes at night. The Priest believes in the daytime and doubts at night.

anditsgood said:

I think you are trying to see though krafts/leagues prespective through a fans fan eyes. If you read most other news, they are presenting crygate errr deflategate as a foregone conclusion (as in pats guilt). I think Roger put his finger in the air and felt how the wind was blowing, He gave in to the mob squad, We are well on our way to becoming the next WWE

Click to expand...

Sure, but they didn't just give into the mob, they created it through misinformation. And now the've basically begged to have Brady take them to court. The NFL isn't going to lose fans one way or another in the grand scheme. The biggest threat to the owners isn't fans leaving because Roger's punishments aren't draconian or arbitrary enough. The biggest threat to the NFL is the players striking and/or gaining significant ground in the next negotiations.

They've basically spit in the players eyes and said screw you we won't follow any procedures and we'll ruin you at will for nothing. How wise is it to create that uber combative stance with people you need to run your business and that you must negotiate with?

IMO they're digging a hole for themselves based of some shortsighted desire to prove how powerful they are. And at the end they will likely lose power because of it.

Bobsyouruncle said:

Sure, but they didn't just give into the mob, they created it through misinformation. And now the've basically begged to have Brady take them to court. The NFL isn't going to lose fans one way or another in the grand scheme. The biggest threat to the owners isn't fans leaving because Roger's punishments aren't draconian or arbitrary enough. The biggest threat to the NFL is the players striking and/or gaining significant ground in the next negotiations.

They've basically spit in the players eyes and said screw you we won't follow and procedures and we'll ruin you at will for nothing. How wise is it to create that uber combative stance with people you need to run your business and that you must negotiate with?

IMO they're digging a hole for themselves based of some shortsighted desire to prove Hiw powerful they are. And at the end they will likely lose power because of it.

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the pendulum swing, of course it will. the next commish might be a players guy. Time will tell.

anditsgood said:

the pendulum swing, of course it will. the next commish might be a players guy. Time will tell.

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There's a great passage in 1984 where O'Brien explains revolutions to Winston. First he tells him, it's all the same to the proles who's in power. Then he explains that what happens in a revolution is that the middle topples the top. Then he explains that the goal of the Party is that the pendulum stops swinging, in essence: One more swing (the "Revolution" that brought the Party to power,) and that's it. It might be the speech in which he winds up saying "If you want a picture of the future, Winston, picture a boot stamping a human face, forever."

This is, without the drama and hyperbole, something like Goodell's vision of the League*. The players have X amount of say/power, and no more -- ever. The owners hire him to be the enforcer. He enforces unevenly if he likes; it does not matter. Just so long as power is preserved by the 32, and concentrated in the hands of 1 commissioner.

United they stand. And players shall never have on the wrong socks, or have a jersey not tucked in, etc., forever. The League* will be a squeaky clean family product - morality tales will unfold. "Cheaters" will be punished, and if necessary, manufactured.

Did you know, Winston, that if I shock the animal for taking the wrong turn in the maze, it generates fear of that turn... but if sometimes I don't shock him, or the shock is sometimes of lesser and sometimes greater intensity... the animal's fear will be greater? - me, playing O'Brien.

If you really want fear you use inconsistent punishment. If I'm going to start my way down the rabbit-hole, goddammit, I'm going all the way in.