SOME THOUGHTS ON TOM BRADY,HIS REFUSAL TO TURN OVER HIS PHONE

Rawky77 · May 21, 2015

I know that this has been talked about in several different threads but felt that this particular point needed
some clarification. If mods do not agree and want it merged i have no objections.

Not a lawyer but I have a question.

It is my understanding that the CBA has no provision to allow the NFL to require a Player to turn over his phone during any disciplinary investigation.

My question Is how can the NFL discipline a player by denying him work, for not turning over his phone if they attempted to bargain for this right and it was given up in negotiations.

Let me see if I can explain this better in an analogy:

A Union and Company negotiate a new contract one of the items management wants is the right to require overtime of any worker they deem needed to perform said overtime. During the negotiation management drops this point in favor of another point they deem more important.

Contract is finalized and everybody goes back to work.

A need for overtime arises and management sends out a list requesting certian union employees to work overtime. Some respond but one refuses to work overtime. The company then suspends that employee for 4 days without pay, for refusing to work overtime.

The union then files a grievance with the NPLA, or whoever the governing authority is and wins their grievance due to the fact that the company has no right under the Union Contract to suspend said employee without pay for refusing to work overtime.

How is this different than TB12 refusing to turn over his phone to Wells when the NFL has no right under the CBA to demand that he turn over his phone?

Patstopia · May 21, 2015

Because in the NFL players are Guilty until they prove themselves innocent. They use the rational that if your not hiding something you should do as they say. The NFL is an all powerful entity, they determine right from wrong, good from bad, truth from fiction. Your compliance is mandatory.

PATS16N0 · May 21, 2015

Sad day when a mob use a man's rights against him.

Deflatemyballs · May 21, 2015

Patstopia said:
Because in the NFL players are Guilty until they prove themselves innocent. They use the rational that if your not hiding something you should do as they say. The NFL is an all powerful entity, they determine right from wrong, good from bad, truth from fiction. Your compliance is mandatory.

Basically it's nazi Germany and communist Russia combined

patsfaninpa · May 21, 2015

Brady will win his appeal. Even if Goodell rules against him. He sues and takes it to an arbitrator. Arbitrator rules in favor of Brady.

fair catch fryar · May 21, 2015

Patstopia said:
Because in the NFL players are Guilty until they prove themselves innocent. They use the rational that if your not hiding something you should do as they say. The NFL is an all powerful entity, they determine right from wrong, good from bad, truth from fiction. Your compliance is mandatory.

Which is why Kessler is licking his chops 24/7 for a chance to go to court. I highly doubt it would even get this far, but if it did, the NFL could be declared a monopoly and under federal law can be broken up if deemed one. Just like they did to Bell Telephone. This whole thing has the potential to totally unravel which is why I don't understand why Goodell even allowed to get to this level.

Gwedd · May 21, 2015

patsfaninpa said:
Brady will win his appeal. Even if Goodell rules against him. He sues and takes it to an arbitrator. Arbitrator rules in favor of Brady.

Absolutely agree. I was reading through the CBA, and trying to stay awake, and I can't find anything in there that would support what Goodell and his thug monkeys did to Brady, let alone what they did to the organization, although the team is NOT covered by the CBA, only the players.

JMC00 · May 21, 2015

How does a guy (Troy Vincent) who can only hand out punishments for unnecessary roughness penalties hand out the stiffest penalty in the history of the NFL?

ViperGTS · May 21, 2015

JMC00 said:
How does a guy (Troy Vincent) who can only hand out punishments for unnecessary roughness penalties hand out the stiffest penalty in the history of the NFL?

Answer: New England Patriots.

ddell1 · May 22, 2015

Does anyone think that this might have been Krafts plot all along? If Brady goes to fed court, he will have to hand over all phone and email............but so will Troy V and Rodger G and the rest of the keystone cops. There may be much worse things that would show up in their messages. I know I know, wishfull thinking.

eom · May 22, 2015

he didn't get suspended for the phone, and most likely wells just asked for it to create a 'noncooperation' charge.

wells agreed to one interview with each guy
wells had access to texts weeks in advance for his team to study
wells had 7 hrs with the deflator to ask him about a bathroom stop
wells apparently didn't choose to ask about the seemingly most relevant 'deflate' texts
wells floated story on may text that he didn't see it, but still didn't ask about nov text -- ergo, lies
despite 7 hr interview wells neglected to ask about nov 'deflate' text, his story being he was 'saving' it for 2nd interview --- which he knew he wasn't getting
he knew he wasn't getting it cuz he already set the stage with a bs 2nd interview of jastremski for no particular reason, that pats cooperated with

wells pushed every button he could think of to drum up a noncooperation charge so he'd actually get them on something --- if pats keep cooperating he might be on his 20th interview this afternoon

SunshineSammy · May 22, 2015

Tom Brady is in a union..

Unfortunately the union approved of this commissioner..

If they had a problem it should have been brought up in the CBA..

I dint see Brady winning his appeal but of course, he,has to go for it..

Fencer · May 22, 2015

fair catch fryar said:
Which is why Kessler is licking his chops 24/7 for a chance to go to court. I highly doubt it would even get this far, but if it did, the NFL could be declared a monopoly and under federal law can be broken up if deemed one. Just like they did to Bell Telephone. This whole thing has the potential to totally unravel which is why I don't understand why Goodell even allowed to get to this level.

Wasn't Brady the lead plaintiff on an anti-trust suit in 2011? What happened to that?

I THINK the answer is that it's moot because once there's a CBA again the league isn't violating anti-trust in the way he was suing about ...

That said -- one claim of many in the suit he does file can be that the league was illegally retaliating. He won't get anywhere with that in court, but it will have a minor effect on public opinion.

DarrylS · May 22, 2015

fair catch fryar said:
Which is why Kessler is licking his chops 24/7 for a chance to go to court. I highly doubt it would even get this far, but if it did, the NFL could be declared a monopoly and under federal law can be broken up if deemed one. Just like they did to Bell Telephone. This whole thing has the potential to totally unravel which is why I don't understand why Goodell even allowed to get to this level.

I think Goodell and his gang lost control of this early, the misreporting over every ball was over 2 lbs underinflated by Mort caused this thing to spin out of control.. the perverse result of unintended consequences..

I think there are three reasons why Brady did not turn over his phone":

1. They had McNally and Jeremski's, why did they need Brady's?? Those were the people involved in this inquisition??
2. When they got McNally's phone they compromised his personal security, why would Brady trust them enough to just turn over his phone with all of his personal info??
3. He was advised by his legal counsel not to do this, why hire an attorney is you do not follow the advice of the attorney..

SHOWTIME15 · May 22, 2015

fair catch fryar said:
Which is why Kessler is licking his chops 24/7 for a chance to go to court. I highly doubt it would even get this far, but if it did, the NFL could be declared a monopoly and under federal law can be broken up if deemed one. Just like they did to Bell Telephone. This whole thing has the potential to totally unravel which is why I don't understand why Goodell even allowed to get to this level.

they can't break the NFL up - it has special anti-trust protection. same thing with the otwr leagues.

SHOWTIME15 · May 22, 2015

favre doesn't turn his cell phone over in the whole jenn sterger thing and he gets a 50K fine.

TruthSeeker · May 22, 2015

Rawky77 said:
I know that this has been talked about in several different threads but felt that this particular point needed
some clarification. If mods do not agree and want it merged i have no objections.

Not a lawyer but I have a question.

It is my understanding that the CBA has no provision to allow the NFL to require a Player to turn over his phone during any disciplinary investigation.

My question Is how can the NFL discipline a player by denying him work, for not turning over his phone if they attempted to bargain for this right and it was given up in negotiations.

Let me see if I can explain this better in an analogy:

A Union and Company negotiate a new contract one of the items management wants is the right to require overtime of any worker they deem needed to perform said overtime. During the negotiation management drops this point in favor of another point they deem more important.

Contract is finalized and everybody goes back to work.

A need for overtime arises and management sends out a list requesting certian union employees to work overtime. Some respond but one refuses to work overtime. The company then suspends that employee for 4 days without pay, for refusing to work overtime.

The union then files a grievance with the NPLA, or whoever the governing authority is and wins their grievance due to the fact that the company has no right under the Union Contract to suspend said employee without pay for refusing to work overtime.

How is this different than TB12 refusing to turn over his phone to Wells when the NFL has no right under the CBA to demand that he turn over his phone?

Your point is excellent. Tom Brady was punished for 2 things per the NFL:
1) likely knowing something about the deflation of footballs
2) not cooperating fully with the investigation

In response, the most important points are:
1) the footballs were not deflated (3 footballs overpressurized, 5 in expected range and 3 underpressurized per best evidence in Wells report)
2) the NFL has no right to expect a player to turn over his personal phone and it is a violation of his rights to punish him for not doing this (particularly since all relevant texts/voice mails/emails are available on phones the NFL already has - oh, that's right - there aren't any)

PatsFanInVa · May 22, 2015

Deflatemyballs said:
Basically it's nazi Germany and communist Russia combined

Sorry for the red x there chief but let's get some perspective. This is a kid's game that grown men play on Sundays, and other grown men, myself included, are addicted to watching. Brady's facing "no football for a MONTH mister!" and the Pats are facing "And then in the next pick-up game YOU don't even get to pick until everybody else picks their first guy!"

Ain't nobody marching people into gas chambers here.

That said I am plenty pissed about the situation too, and the NFL's methodology is clearly a travesty of justice. Let me be clear... I DO hate the fact that in effect the League is cheating and has been for years. I AM a grown man addicted to this kids' game. I DO think there's "legacy" and "history" attached to all this.

I figure there should be an asterisk next to every SB mention of the Pats. In the footnote the asterisk goes to it should say "*We'll never know how many Super Bowls the Patriots would have won in this stretch were it not for league collusion against them."

But no, this isn't the Holocaust or the Gulag Archipelago. It's a game.

fair catch fryar · May 22, 2015

TommyBrady12 said:
they can't break the NFL up - it has special anti-trust protection. same thing with the otwr leagues.

I am by no means an expert so I have to ask... was that why the players brought up the ant-trust suit prior to the latest CBA?

Deflatemyballs · May 22, 2015

PatsFanInVa said:
Sorry for the red x there chief but let's get some perspective. This is a kid's game that grown men play on Sundays, and other grown men, myself included, are addicted to watching. Brady's facing "no football for a MONTH mister!" and the Pats are facing "And then in the next pick-up game YOU don't even get to pick until everybody else picks their first guy!"

Ain't nobody marching people into gas chambers here.

That said I am plenty pissed about the situation too, and the NFL's methodology is clearly a travesty of justice. Let me be clear... I DO hate the fact that in effect the League is cheating and has been for years. I AM a grown man addicted to this kids' game. I DO think there's "legacy" and "history" attached to all this.

I figure there should be an asterisk next to every SB mention of the Pats. In the footnote the asterisk goes to it should say "*We'll never know how many Super Bowls the Patriots would have won in this stretch were it not for league collusion against them."

But no, this isn't the Holocaust or the Gulag Archipelago. It's a game.

Get a god damn sense of humor you wet blanket. It's called sarcasm I didn't literally think it was like the holocaust. Read a book for me one time

SOME THOUGHTS ON TOM BRADY,HIS REFUSAL TO TURN OVER HIS PHONE

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