Would it take guts to appease the fans?

RayClay....explain to me Krafts claim that he 'did this for the fans' or however he put that.

How does his pursuit of this issue hurt the pats?

The only possibility is that it gets out of the way of what Kessler and the NFLPA are about to unload on the league......so who looks good in the end when the NFLPA and Kessler can bring forth the facts and have everything put together in a way that the league can't ignore? because this is what is going to happen........because the recipe for going beyond the powers of goodell have already been proven.....a lawsuit by Brady and company stands to do much more damage to the league front office than anything......

So how is caving better for the Patriots than fighting it? What's lost besides some money if the Patriots lose the fight? Remember, "best interest of the team" so what's better about quitting? Seems to me he had the fans galvanized and now they're divided at best. How is that better?


Oh, I know, it's the "top secret deal" just like the "shadow practice squad"... there's always someone willing to believe. There are those who still think Tsarnaev is innocent so given the less severe nature of what Kraft did, it's only natural.

He should just tell the actual truth to the fans and at least try to really explain to us why he laid down and rolled over for Goodell on this one. Seriously, there's more to it than, "I did what was best for the league." I don't believe it, but if there was more evidence then open it up and let everyone see, if not, then fight this thing every step of the way even if he knows he will lose the appeal. Fans can't fault him for fighting for his team when he has exhausted every possible avenue, futile or not.

VectorPrime said:

But then he would have zero leverage because he's not appealing...

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Because you don't make it about the punishment or the fight but rather debate what actually happened and demand answers on the leaks and other fishy things.

FirstAndGoal said:

So how is caving better for the Patriots than fighting it? What's lost besides some money if the Patriots lose the fight? Remember, "best interest of the team" so what's better about quitting? Seems to me he had the fans galvanized and now they're divided at best. How is that better?


Oh, I know, it's the "top secret deal" just like the "shadow practice squad"... there's always someone willing to believe. There are those who still think Tsarnaev is innocent so given the less severe nature of what Kraft did, it's only natural.

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In my opinion, he needs to work behind the scenes as long as it takes to unseat goodell. Making a big stink is more likely to set owners against him more, IMO.

Of course he's not going to tell people what he's doing, I'm sure the people he's trying to persuade might not realize it. All I know is, he needs 23 votes.

fair catch fryar said:

He should just tell the actual truth to the fans and at least try to really explain to us why he laid down and rolled over for Goodell on this one. Seriously, there's more to it than, "I did what was best for the league." I don't believe it, but if there was more evidence then open it up and let everyone see, if not, then fight this thing every step of the way even if he knows he will lose the appeal. Fans can't fault him for fighting for his team when he has exhausted every possible avenue, futile or not.

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Well, I'm going behind goodell's back and try to work on the insecurities of the owners individually, maybe leaking some stuff, or whatever it takes to gradually get 23 votes.

Now, don't you fans tell them, it's a secret.

Chiuba E. Obele said:

How much courage does it take to do this?

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But, that's what you want him to do to you.

at this point, its no longer about appeasement

this is the process of moving on after learning that the notion of the 'patriot way' was f*cking garbage

I'm wondering how many of these players who took less to play with the pats feel now that they see the guy who paid the checks as nothing more than a money-grubbing whore

IllegalContact said:

RayClay....explain to me Krafts claim that he 'did this for the fans' or however he put that.

How does his pursuit of this issue hurt the pats?

The only possibility is that it gets out of the way of what Kessler and the NFLPA are about to unload on the league......so who looks good in the end when the NFLPA and Kessler can bring forth the facts and have everything put together in a way that the league can't ignore? because this is what is going to happen........because the recipe for going beyond the powers of goodell have already been proven.....a lawsuit by Brady and company stands to do much more damage to the league front office than anything......

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If he gets rid of goodell in a year or two, would that be good for Patriots fans?

RayClay said:

If he gets rid of goodell in a year or two, would that be good for Patriots fans?

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from an objective standpoint, it doesn't seem to matter.....the pats have lost a draft pick before....I don't blame goodell for how spygate turned out, and the pats still managed to go to 3 superbowls and 5 AFCC's since spygate punishment was handed down

this one is different though how the owner has given up a fight which is so uncharacteristic of how the team has been......it stands to hurt the personality of the team

on a broader perspective, I don't believe the process used by the league office works.......ultimate say is clean until somebody screws it up

the whole deflategate issue is a total mess with the only thing that was clear was that the pats were going to be punished. there still is no reconciling the fact that the wells report COMPLETELY exonerates the pats but for some reason they have no 1st rounder , 4th rounder, and a million $ .... all for not producing mcnally in person for a 5th time? and then the owner accepts it as reasonable?

I'm just looking at the principles set forth and this thing has got serious problems the moment it leaves the park avenue office

honestly, I think this thing is going to get a whole lot dirtier than we have seen to date before it is completely settled

I said 2 weeks ago, that there is no version of this that doesn't make the league office turn to a steaming pile of doodoo......my belief in that notion is stronger than ever

one of the league's problems is that they are now going up against someone (Brady) who deos not have a whole lot left to lose.....the most dangerous opponent in this kind of thing.....god help the NFL if Brady decides to damn the torpedoes...it is not clear what will be left of their system

RayClay said:

In my opinion, he needs to work behind the scenes as long as it takes to unseat goodell. Making a big stink is more likely to set owners against him more, IMO.

Of course he's not going to tell people what he's doing, I'm sure the people he's trying to persuade might not realize it. All I know is, he needs 23 votes.

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So you're going with the "top secret" angle then because there's absolutely nothing to support what you just wrote and in fact, there's plenty to support the opposite. He has no interest in unseating Goodell and the other owners would fight him and win if he did. All you've got is a dream that you're holding onto.

So I'll ask again. How is caving in the best interest of the Patriots and how does fighting this hurt the chances of anything you said?

RayClay said:

Well, I'm going behind goodell's back and try to work on the insecurities of the owners individually, maybe leaking some stuff, or whatever it takes to gradually get 23 votes.

Now, don't you fans tell them, it's a secret.

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Please tell me you do not believe that......it's just conjecture, right?

RayClay said:

If he gets rid of goodell in a year or two, would that be good for Patriots fans?

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If..........which comes first that unlike BK maneuver or BB retiring?

RayClay, you sir are a mensch. You knew it would be all red Xs the moment you posted this and did it anyway. I'm not where you are with Kraft, but closer than I am to the "break up the team I hope Brady wants out" guys. But clearly you have no qualms about being the one guy saying "Let's question this 'spineless traitor Kraft' chant."

too bad Kraft is a Putz not a Mensch. I would call him a schmuck but I don't have that high an opinion of him.

flasox27 said:

too bad Kraft is a Putz not a Mensch. I would call him a schmuck but I don't have that high an opinion of him.

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The real question: Is Kraft the shlemeil or the shlemazel in all of this?

He is the shlemeil. The Pats are the shlemazel in this fiasco

RayClay said:

Krafts got plenty of money. Do a dog and pony show of an appeal, lose and be a hero.

When he knows it's a waste of time [anyone argue that point?]

And it puts him against all the owners he'll need to vote Goodell out?

Seems to me, that would be the cowards way out. Do something stupid, waste money and time, but be a hero to the fans.

He knew what he did wouldn't be popular, but he did it. Doesn't it take a lot more guts to do the unpopular thing?

Thoughts?

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Teams have appealed, it would not be suicide to appeal.
He has 80% of it written. He could have walked in with the Goldberg report, and the Deflator and Dorito Dink to answer whatever questions were left.
No one would belittle him that opportunity.
I believe it he made an overwhelming case he would win, and if he tried he would at least raise doubt and remove some of the lack of cooperation.

More than anything else he would fight for reputation integrity and legacy. Since when does that not matter?
He didn't say he stopped because he couldn't win, he said he stopped because it was going on too long and felt he couldn't put the Patriots agenda ahead of what the other owners wanted him to do.

If the Patriots fall behind and lose and after the game say it had just gone on to long so rather than extend it the decided to end it, how would that go over? How can fans that appreciate players leaving everything on the field, even when the odds are small be happy that the voice of the franchise said its too much work, I quit.

RayClay said:

The chargers weren't charged with a rule violation. the fine was only for not producing the towel fast enough.

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Why didnt we appeal not producing The Deflator fast enough? That was a CRITICAL factor in the findings.

FirstAndGoal said:

So you're going with the "top secret" angle then because there's absolutely nothing to support what you just wrote and in fact, there's plenty to support the opposite. He has no interest in unseating Goodell and the other owners would fight him and win if he did. All you've got is a dream that you're holding onto.

So I'll ask again. How is caving in the best interest of the Patriots and how does fighting this hurt the chances of anything you said?

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I'm going with the only logical way to unseat a tyrant with unlimited powers hired by the owners and a guy who couldn't buy the patriots so he bought a racetrack that had partial claim to the stadium, then the stadium, which put him into position nine years later to buy the team from someone who had intended to buy out his lease and move the team
to St. louis.

I guess if you want to think he's some dumb yokel who's every move is telegraphed, you can think that too.