How much credit do we owe Kraft for the success of this franchise?

signbabybrady said:

It happened just not for any chivalrous reasons. Kraft flat out told me how he really thinks and with my blinders off I now realize everything he did and does is for the better of his wallet.

He made an investment he did not save anything.

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Again, as any business owner, his top priority is his bottom line. But to say that Kraft didn't care about the fans is ridiculous.

Rob0729 said:

Every owner is out for themselves first. It doesn't matter the team or the sport.

But Kraft up until this week has always been a fan friendly owner. He paid for his own stadium and didn't force his season ticket owners to buy exorbitant priced PSLs. He was one of the first (if not the first) to have the season ticket holders free practice event. He was one of the first owners to offer ticket prices on games based on the interest in the opposing team. He has made the training camp experience one of the best in the league. Anyone who went to games before Kraft can tell you that he really cleaned up the atmosphere in the stands to make them far more family friendly.

I am not going to change his history just because I am upset with him.

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As I said I'm not going to rewrite history and take away all his accomplishments but let's throw out the myths that have been blown away.

@Rob0729 No question, Kraft has helped the Patriot brand tremendously and enriched the fan experience...but at some point, he must have lost touch with those fans...otherwise, why would he blatantly and shamelessly appease his billionaire friends, who don't give the slightest crap about his franchise? If the fans are willing to fight for the team, why shouldn't he do the same?

Kraft deserves all the credit in the world for taking this ragtag franchise and turning it into a professional football establishment. He got BB who is a once in a lifetime coach. He was lucky TB was drafted. He built a nice stadium.

And then there was his response to Spygate, which was a mistake by our coaches. Not fighting it was a mistake on management as a whole fault.

But now, now he seems to have really and truly gone to the dark side. He will be booed regardless of what he did in the past. And he rightly deserves what he gets from his deeds and now his misdeeds. Fans are not weighing the good and bad and deciding how things balance.

We see a truly horrendous decision that in no way reflects the fans point of view. He took a side, he chose a league that obviously was more interested in setting a trap than fixing a problem. And in so doing, crushed the fanbase and abandoned the GOAT QB in the process.

How can this ever be reconciled? Certainly not with with words. It requires action. Even if as some have surmised as a losing effort. If it rips his other 31 friends in the process and rips the league that started it. Then so be it. They brought it on themselves!

Now was not the time to be timid. Now was the time to draw a line in the sand and say to league. From here on every gain will cost you. We will not except your BS anymore!

Rob0729 said:

Every owner is out for themselves first. It doesn't matter the team or the sport.

But Kraft up until this week has always been a fan friendly owner. He paid for his own stadium and didn't force his season ticket owners to buy exorbitant priced PSLs. He was one of the first (if not the first) to have the season ticket holders free practice event. He was one of the first owners to offer ticket prices on games based on the interest in the opposing team. He has made the training camp experience one of the best in the league. Anyone who went to games before Kraft can tell you that he really cleaned up the atmosphere in the stands to make them far more family friendly.

I am not going to change his history just because I am upset with him.

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Out for your bottom line first and out exclusively for your bottom line are two very different things. The former has been obvious for years, and I never begrudged him that because that's a stupid thing to begrudge someone. The latter is something I've suspected for the last few years, but became obvious the other day. I begrudge the hell out of that, and refuse to support it.

BradyFTW! said:

Out for your bottom line first and out exclusively for your bottom line are two very different things. The former has been obvious for years, and I never begrudged him that because that's a stupid thing to begrudge someone. The latter is something I've suspected for the last few years, but became obvious the other day. I begrudge the hell out of that, and refuse to support it.

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Agreed. I can't say enough about Kraft and all the things he has done for this franchise...but sometimes, leadership has a shelf life, and I don't feel Kraft is the right kind of leader for the situation. As I said in the beginning of this thread, Kraft has made wonderful business decisions and personnel hirings. But he's not the kinda person you want in your corner when the chips are down.

Nunchucks said:

You guys make it sound like Kraft did all this for altruistic reasons. He bought a struggling NFL franchise for dirt cheap and kept the team in MA where a passionate fanbase existed. Make no mistake, a magic 8-ball could make money with an NFL franchise.

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Except he paid the highest price ever for a sports franchise at the time, for a team without a decent stadium and no prospects of support to build one.

As they say, you've got the right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

Well, if you've got a billion dollars or so, make him an offer.

Especially since its so easy and an automatic cash cow.

For people juxtaposing that Kraft made money against the idea that Kraft is a fan:

Owners of NFL teams are not in it to claim a loss on their taxes.

Ask yourself what is different regarding these early moves vs. the days when everybody used a black ribbon avatar when Myra died.

Was he not making money back then?

You're using Goodellian logic, with the whole "in light of this week, here's what's evil about everything he's accomplished" line of argumentation.

The facts are the same now as then. What has changed is you hate him now.

A lot! Just because he screwed up twice does not make me long for the return of the Sullivans.

People who throw money around get too much credit........everything this team became was because of Parcells and BB

there are lots of teams that get tons of money thrown at them and they still stink

It was easy for Kraft given the team is in one of the richer parts of the country

@Chiuba: on face value, burden of proof if he went to court is 1 reason. Another at true face value - his own words - is that he thinks it's "best" for fans, the team, and the NFL - as if those interests are aligned.

I don't like him right now. I don't think he was the man for this moment because of the flip flop, the hug, and the pro-shield messaging.

If he bowed out he could have at least taken the hit with an insistence on a truly independent investigation of a number of features of the NFL. (Officiating, Goodell's utterly inconsistent/unwritten penalties etc.)

Rob0729 said:

Again, as any business owner, his top priority is his bottom line. But to say that Kraft didn't care about the fans is ridiculous.

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Past tense.

PATSNUTme said:

A lot! Just because he screwed up twice does not make me long for the return of the Sullivans.

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Curious what you think @PATSNUTme. If there were three people responsible for the amazing success of the Patriots, it would certainly be Brady, Belichick, and Kraft. Out of those three, do you feel that Kraft has been the 'weakest link' of it all? A necessary component of the Patriots' success (no doubt!) but far from reliable when it comes to advocating for the interest of his team, especially when its come under attack?

PatsFanInVa said:

@Chiuba: on face value, burden of proof if he went to court is 1 reason. Another at true face value - his own words - is that he thinks it's "best" for fans, the team, and the NFL - as if those interests are aligned.

I don't like him right now. I don't think he was the man for this moment because of the flip flop, the hug, and the pro-shield messaging.

If he bowed out he could have at least taken the hit with an insistence on a truly independent investigation of a number of features of the NFL. (Officiating, Goodell's utterly inconsistent/unwritten penalties etc.)

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You have brains @PatsFanInVa.Maybe you can tell me why Kraft believe he doing what best for the fans? I don't doubt his sincerity, but his logic and sense of reasoning is totally beyond me!

IllegalContact said:

People who throw money around get too much credit........everything this team became was because of Parcells and BB

there are lots of teams that get tons of money thrown at them and they still stink

It was easy for Kraft given the team is in one of the richer parts of the country

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What part of the country was it in the first 25 years or so?

RayClay said:

What part of the country was it in the first 25 years or so?

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The same richer part of the country

The greater Boston area has always been a top market in the top 5 when it comes to per capita income........the first 25 years, the NFL was not what it is today......

IllegalContact said:

The same richer part of the country

The greater Boston area has always been a top market in the top 5 when it comes to per capita income........the first 25 years, the NFL was not what it is today......

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Lots of teams sold out every game. we didn't.

RayClay said:

Lots of teams sold out every game. we didn't.

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some teams did

by the way, the pats were selling out before Kraft showed up

the pats started selling out with Parcells and Bledsoe......

timing is everything....Parcells would have never been hired by Kraft had Kraft bought the team sooner.......

Chiuba E. Obele said:

Curious what you think @PATSNUTme. If there were three people responsible for the amazing success of the Patriots, it would certainly be Brady, Belichick, and Kraft. Out of those three, do you feel that Kraft has been the 'weakest link' of it all? A necessary component of the Patriots' success (no doubt!) but far from reliable when it comes to advocating for the interest of his team, especially when its come under attack?

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I have tremendous respect for Robert Kraft the businessman. Generally speaking, you don't fall into a billion plus fortune by pure dumb luck (unless you're an oligarch buying undervalued assets during a social revolution). I also respect Robert Kraft the owner because he's given Bill Belichick a carte blanche football platform. To me, this is his greatest strategic move. He was smart enough to learn from his prior experiences and gave Belichick the autonomy he needed to get the job done.

Now, pushing all that aside, I still find myself sitting in a chair of despair given what's transpired this week. I started wondering, if Belichick isn't the Patriots HC, if Brady isn't the QB, would the Patriots be who they are today because of Robert Kraft? Then I look at the Revolution and I see a good but not great franchise. Then my mind starts wondering contemplating all the reasons why Kraft has done what he's done and it keeps coming back to this exclusive boys club plus the commissar not the best interests of the fans as he would have us believe.

I respect Kraft for what he's done for fans of the Patriots but I don't like the path he's taken and the precedent he's established. One can only hope Jonathan has more fight in him because once the fans are lost, they are lost forever.