How much credit do we owe Kraft for the success of this franchise?

signbabybrady · May 21, 2015

Furthermore I actually give Kraft credit for the struggles of the team immediately prior to purchasing it. Of course the team struggled its owners were cornered by your dealings and trying to weasel in on the team.
Forget ST. Louis but just assume the previous owner wasn't locked in on that crappy lease he wouldn't have been forced to sell and regardless of where the franchise went he would be the one making mobey hand over fist.

All great business moves by Kraft but since he did it all for his wallet he no longer gets credit as a savior.

Mack Herron · May 21, 2015

DarrylS said:
e of Billy Sullivan, Victor Kiam and James Orthwein... if you think things are bad now, try a 1-15 season or the series of bad moves that plagued this team prior to Mr. Kraft buying it.. years of mediocrity, marked with occasional winning seasons...

I was here for all of them. A bunch of oafs to be sure. But I endured their ineptitude. At least they didn't eat their own young.

Soul_Survivor88 · May 21, 2015

signbabybrady said:
Apparently he is a bigger fan of money.

I used to give him credit for saving the franchise but no longer he did none of this in the best interest of the Patriots he did it to trap the current owners so they would have no choice but to sell. He muscled his way in.

As much as it sucked for us owners consider this all the time.
It was likely going to be his only chance to ever own a Franchise he offered what he had to to get it and not a penny more. Every franchise since has bea. His price so the idea he over paid to save this team is false.

The horrible stadium was his already and it was how he trapped the previous owner. Convenient he will get credit for improving it.

He exhausted every option before deciding on this. He would of taken public funds if he could of he got shut out of Boston and his best option was CT or do it himself.

And didn't properly support him and he was gone within a few years only to go onto win national championships and SB wins. Kraft got diminishing results from the second best coach in the NFL yippie.

here is the real kicker I won't even give him credit for this. We can pretend kraft thought BB would be this good but he is on record as stating his prior experience with BB and how BB had spoke of cap management being a key to success. So basically he hired a coach he knew would be frugal he had no clue he would be this good but he knew the coach wouldn't destroy his budget.
-

Bottom line is you can go back to everything positive we credited kraft with and now having the knowledge that he cares more about money than anything else it paints a different picture.

He is no longer the savior of the franchise just a money grubbing whore who forced his way in with his wallet. He was not saving anything he was making an investment.

He lost all benefit of doubt from everything this man does is for his wallet.

Now it gets interesting......

Tunescribe · May 21, 2015

None of this should be about Kraft's track record, which is superlative. I feel that as he has aged, Bob has let his extreme wealth insulate him from the real world to where he cavorts with a young bimbo, attends rapper parties, forgot his roots and just lost his way.

hambone1818 · May 21, 2015

I give Kraft a lot of credit, he's a businessman like the Red Sox owners who not only spent on the team but built the brand. The stadium, Patriots Place, it's akin to the work Henry/Lucchino/Werner did with Fenway and the area around it. I think that strengthened the brand and made games more enjoyable for fans. Additionally he's done a good job of hiring competent people every step of the way but then, unlike many NFL owners, has been great at stepping back and letting those guys make the football operations decisions. No Jerry Jones here, when you let a great football mind like Belichick call the shots you're OK in my book.

He's been great in that regard. Where he's slipped up (obviously) is in defense of his team, his players and franchise, when cameraplacementgate and now deflategate happened. He refused to take the businessman/league owner hat off and put on the Patriots owner hat. It's troubling and disappointing, partly because you'd hope he would recognize the long-term benefits to clearing his organizations name but also because it's just a spineless move to capitulate to the other 31 owners when they clearly don't have your franchises best interests in mind.

But he does deserve credit for what he's done, both with the stadium and the people who're in place to make football decisions.

shmessy · May 21, 2015

Bobsyouruncle said:
I really doubt he anticipated this reaction. Which is evidence that he's out of touch. I suspect the booing will hurt him. He is making decisions to destroy his own legacy. I think he does care about legacy, he just isn't very good at thinking ahead. Maybe because he's old. Oh well, guess I'd feel bad for him but I've not known many people who forget that loyalty to your friends is a value. Looks like he just has loyalty to his owner friends, instead of to his players who've made him a celebrity

If you think the fans have reacted badly to this, wait 'til you see the reaction when Gillette opens next season and there is a corporate patio in the enclosed end zone where 15 rows of seats used to be.

Nunchucks · May 21, 2015

shmessy said:
If you think the fans have reacted badly to this, wait 'til you see the reaction when Gillette opens next season and there is a corporate patio in the enclosed end zone where 15 rows of seats used to be.

Hey, I could have bought myself into that that Patio for an additional $1800 per person. Then I could wander down from my seat to the Patio and grabbed myself a drink and watch the game on TV if I desired.
Why wouldn't I want to do that?

Tunescribe · May 21, 2015

shmessy said:
If you think the fans have reacted badly to this, wait 'til you see the reaction when Gillette opens next season and there is a corporate patio in the enclosed end zone where 15 rows of seats used to be.

I've been angry about that since it first was announced. Still can't believe they did it. It removes home field advantage from an entire end zone.

Kontradiction · May 21, 2015

Tunescribe said:
None of this should be about Kraft's track record, which is superlative. I feel that as he has aged, Bob has let his extreme wealth insulate him from the real world to where he cavorts with a young bimbo, attends rapper parties, forgot his roots and just lost his way.

Pretty much. He's spent too long living in La-La Land and can't be taken seriously when it comes to matters in the real world.

Tunescribe · May 21, 2015

Nunchucks said:
Hey, I could have bought myself into that that Patio for an additional $1800 per person. Then I could wander down from my seat to the Patio and grabbed myself a drink and watch the game on TV if I desired.
Why wouldn't I want to do that?

If this season gets ugly I could see people throwing snowballs at the thing.

everlong · May 21, 2015

Tunescribe said:
None of this should be about Kraft's track record, which is superlative. I feel that as he has aged, Bob has let his extreme wealth insulate him from the real world to where he cavorts with a young bimbo, attends rapper parties, forgot his roots and just lost his way.

Why did he take it lying down in 07? When he settled the labor dispute and sign the network deal he wasn't too old. If he's too old why wasn't Jonathan taking the front?

Tunescribe · May 21, 2015

everlong said:
Why did he take it lying down in 07?

Because R. Stokoe Goodell was new at the job and Bob chose to swallow it for "the good of the 32." Bad precedent, of course.

everlong · May 21, 2015

Tunescribe said:
Because R. Stokoe Goodell was new at the job and Bob chose to swallow it for "the good of the 32." Bad precedent, of course.

The point being he lacks the fortitude for a real fight. He's very good at brokering deals and building bridges he's just unable to realize which ones have been nuked and which ones are supporting his infrastructure. I'm not letting him off the hook for age or anything else.

jlu52 · May 21, 2015

everlong said:
Why did he take it lying down in 07? When he settled the labor dispute and sign the network deal he wasn't too old. If he's too old why wasn't Jonathan taking the front?

He ain't "Dollar Bob" for nothing..he's clearly demonstrated that he'll do anything so as to not disrupt cash flow, even if it means throwing his team, coach, QB and fans under the nearest, most convenient bus. He has now established a track record doing exactly that. To say I'm disappointed is a gross understatement...

Twentytothree · May 21, 2015

DarrylS said:
You all should go into the time machine and enjoy the ineptitude of Billy Sullivan, Victor Kiam and James Orthwein... if you think things are bad now, try a 1-15 season or the series of bad moves that plagued this team prior to Mr. Kraft buying it.. years of mediocrity, marked with occasional winning seasons...

Yeah, but let's see what Kraft's team looks like once BB and Brady retire. If he (or his clan) can keep them on top, Chapeau!

Rob0729 · May 21, 2015

Ok, I understand why people are upset with Kraft or even hate the guy, but I am not going to get involved in this revisionist history about the guy.

Without Kraft, the Patriots would be in St. Louis right now and probably a prime candidate for Los Angeles. Without Kraft, there would be no Belichick on this team. Without Kraft, this team could still be the joke it was before he bought the team.

Bottomline: Without Kraft, not only would the Pats fans in New England would not have four Super Bowl trophies, they wouldn't have a team to root for.

I know you guys hate the guy now. But let's not pretend the stuff he did for this team and this region never happened.

everlong · May 21, 2015

Rob0729 said:
I know you guys hate the guy now. But let's not pretend the stuff he did for this team and this region never happened.

What Bob did, Bob did for Bob. Certainly he cannot be stripped of all credit but let's never speak of this in a selfless manner again. I don't want to hear about Aluminum Seats Bob, Patriot's Way Bob, Do your job Bob, NFL Power Broker Bob ever again because they're all myths. Bob's a solid businessman looking out for Bob.

Rob0729 · May 21, 2015

DarrylS said:
You all should go into the time machine and enjoy the ineptitude of Billy Sullivan, Victor Kiam and James Orthwein... if you think things are bad now, try a 1-15 season or the series of bad moves that plagued this team prior to Mr. Kraft buying it.. years of mediocrity, marked with occasional winning seasons...

In fairness, Orthwein wasn't bad. He did bring in Parcells. Granted, he had no long term plans for the team and wasn't really thinking more than getting the team attractive to sell it.

signbabybrady · May 21, 2015

Rob0729 said:
Ok, I understand why people are upset with Kraft or even hate the guy, but I am not going to get involved in this revisionist history about the guy.

Without Kraft, the Patriots would be in St. Louis right now and probably a prime candidate for Los Angeles. Without Kraft, there would be no Belichick on this team. Without Kraft, this team could still be the joke it was before he bought the team.

Bottomline: Without Kraft, not only would the Pats fans in New England would not have four Super Bowl trophies, they wouldn't have a team to root for.

I know you guys hate the guy now. But let's not pretend the stuff he did for this team and this region never happened.

It happened just not for any chivalrous reasons. Kraft flat out told me how he really thinks and with my blinders off I now realize everything he did and does is for the better of his wallet.

He made an investment he did not save anything.

Rob0729 · May 21, 2015

everlong said:
What Bob did, Bob did for Bob. Certainly he cannot be stripped of all credit but let's never speak of this in a selfless manner again. I don't want to hear about Aluminum Seats Bob, Patriot's Way Bob, Do your job Bob, NFL Power Broker Bob ever again because they're all myths. Bob's a solid businessman looking out for Bob.

Every owner is out for themselves first. It doesn't matter the team or the sport.

But Kraft up until this week has always been a fan friendly owner. He paid for his own stadium and didn't force his season ticket owners to buy exorbitant priced PSLs. He was one of the first (if not the first) to have the season ticket holders free practice event. He was one of the first owners to offer ticket prices on games based on the interest in the opposing team. He has made the training camp experience one of the best in the league. Anyone who went to games before Kraft can tell you that he really cleaned up the atmosphere in the stands to make them far more family friendly.

I am not going to change his history just because I am upset with him.

How much credit do we owe Kraft for the success of this franchise?

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