Kraft does not deserve your anger.

Patstopia said:

What really snaps my jock strap is this guy steps up to the podium and asks the fans to trust him he is doing this to end the rhetoric and calm the antagonism down. What hubris on this guy! He thought just by his words the whole thing would go away! That we as Patriot fans would just say OK Bob if you say so.

Now Kraft the businessman has done well for this region and this team. He kept the team here and built a stadium. And best of all, he hired BB.

But Kraft the owner has been an assortment of treats and a few tricks mixed in. But the one overriding thing that he forgot was loyalty. Loyalty to the team, the Players and the QB who is out there right now twisting in the wind. Kraft would leave him there. Would leave the fans there. Would leave the team there.

Tom Brady has recourse to fight this finding with the NFLPA. After that if he wants he can sue.

But for the fans, we have no recourse! We have to depend on the owner to represent OUR team, the team we support by buying tickets and goods and watching on television.

We depend on the owner to stick with us thru thick and thin. And we will stick with him no matter what. And that is the crux of the matter. We are left unrepresented because Bob forgot about the team, the QB and the fans. And was persuaded to abandon all of us, for a league set a trap for the team. Doctored up a report and then SLAMMED the team with a ridiculous punishment for an infraction that cannot be proven and is a 25k fine.

So now we stand alone, raging into the night. Left abandoned with nobody to look out for the fans point of view. Because obviously, the fans don't count to Bob. Only the NFL and his 31 other buddies.

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Love this post, but just one thing. I don't have the level of hatred to Kraft that many posters have of him, at least not yet. Am I pissed? Fcuk yes, but I'm waiting to see what unfolds with Brady.

With that, I have never viewed RK as the face of the franchise. That to me has always been Belichick. That's why this year, I'm gonna take even more pride with every snort, short response and any other FU to the media BB does.

It's sad how much some of you care about what other people think about the Patriots. It's a sport, a game... It's not your life's work. So what if someone disagrees with your opinion on whether the patriots are cheaters or not? Does it really hurt you and ruin your life if other fanbases calls your favorite football team a cheater? Get a grip. I'm tired of this "tarnished our name" trash.

^ I agree..not sure if its an insecurity issue or a maturity thing. It seems people are upset because they won't be able to talk smack to other teams fans now..so silly.

Wow in one day your poster rating went from positive to negative.

Apperently nothing short of Kraft suing the league and going all Donald sterling and Al Davis would appease people.

People need to step back and have some prospective. Many are taking this as a personal attack. Follow through and sell your tickets then boycott the games. We all know your will be back when the pats are in the playoffs.

Interception said:

What has Kraft does for this organization?



Thank you!

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Your entire comment is a classic red herring.

The main point of your comment is that he would be destined to lose a divisive fight in court by, as you put it at the beginning, "suing the league."

I have always been agnostic on whether the right outcome was for Kraft to "sue the league" because I honestly felt I couldn't take a view on that until I saw what would happen during an appeal.

That is why I thought the right course was to go through the Appeals process to the League itself, which you do not address.

That would have brought with it three benefits:

One, it would enable him to air his side of the story in a way provided for by the League's by-laws, thus respecting the NFL and its processes;

Two, it would enable the public to assess his side of the story;

Three, it would likely have had the side benefit of exposing the entire process as a sham if Goodell himself heard the appeal.

As a fan who has invested many years in following and supporting this team, I am disappointed that he didn't pursue the Appeals process that the League permits. That leaves me in the position of being unable to assess whether further legal action would have been realistic.

And, finally, I do feel that he has warranted "my anger."

Initially, I had no intention of responding to this garbage, but due to your specific request about responding....I had too. Where do you get off passing off this crap on here, but don't want to feel the anger a lot of passionate fans are legitimately feeling? You state that the Patriots wouldn't exist without the NFL. Guess what Confuscious wannabe, the NFL owes more to it's fans than it's fans owe to the NFL. Where the phuck does Roger Goodell get off allowing what has occurred since the SB? After his ******** press conference yesterday, it became more clear to me than ever that there was something afoot to discredit the Patriots and Goodell didn't only allow it to happen, he damn near orchestrated the whole thing whether he knows it or not by passing off the Wells Report as fact and doling out the responsibilities of punishment to Troy Vincent. Out of what respect I have for the Kraft's prevents me from spewing how I really feel about that coward, so I'll leave it at that.

AzorianPats said:

Love this post, but just one thing. I don't have the level of hatred to Kraft that many posters have of him, at least not yet. Am I pissed? Fcuk yes, but I'm waiting to see what unfolds with Brady.

With that, I have never viewed RK as the face of the franchise. That to me as always been Belichick. That's why this year, I'm gonna take even more pride with every snort, short response and any other FU to the media BB does.

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Hate is a strong word, but true disappointment and loss of respect describes how I feel about Kraft. Especially, after all of the "rhetoric" he wants to put an end to, but was firing up Patriot's fans with up until his 31 buddies had a chance to straighten him out. I can only imagine how hard some of them were laughing when Kraft was behind that podium. I bet he is the butt of a lot of jokes when these guys get together for drinks and cigars and Bob isn't in the room.

The simple answer for Kraft, if there is a reasonable answer for his actions other than self-interest, would be to articulate why he acted as he did in all of his public statements on this subject. Saying "I love you guys" while punching you in the gut is not the way to go. His "for the good of the shield" statement is pure nonsense if 97% of the shield is targeting his 3%, which it appears to be.

His statements appear to be getting more oblivious with each release. If he ever were a fan, then he would be tearing the owner a new one for that nonsense, which appears to assume the fanbase is comprised of village idiots. Unless the good he is referring to is a backroom deal to lift sanctions off of Brady and the Pats completely (and all of this comes to pass with the Brady appeal), his actions are for the good of him and whatever end he serves with his actions.

Anyone claiming fighting an unwinnable fight has no value clearly lacks an understanding of the court of public opinion or the concept of honoring the simple principle that if the truth is you did not commit the crime, then don't plead guilty to it. It is not a simple business decision weighing attorney fees. Billionaires will drop a few million to fight over the neighbor's landscaping when they disagree with the design. It is not a business decision on litigation costs. It is about preserving your brand and all that goes with, which is the flying Elvis, not the NFL shield.

Interception said:

Going the distance is silly if it does nothing but damage both the Patriots and the NFL, which is a possible outcome.

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Wrong. Sometimes you need to stand on principle, even if it is a losing battle.

Interception said:

It's sad how much some of you care about what other people think about the Patriots. It's a sport, a game... It's not your life's work. So what if someone disagrees with your opinion on whether the patriots are cheaters or not? Does it really hurt you and ruin your life if other fanbases calls your favorite football team a cheater? Get a grip. I'm tired of this "tarnished our name" trash.

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And, yet, you seem inordinately concerned with how other people feel about Kraft right now. Which is sadder?

This is on top of your mind-numbingly stupid thread imploring us to not be upset at the media, because they're really good people who are only lying and libeling to "feed their family."

I will assume you are serious and this is not parody, and respond in detail

Interception said:

What has Kraft does for this organization?
Bill Belichick would not be here without Kraft. Considering that fact, Brady would most likely not be here without Kraft either. Without those two, we would not have four Super Bowl championships. Without Kraft, this organization would still be where it was prior to Kraft -- a laughing stock.

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If you haven't noticed, we ARE a laughing stock. We are a laughing stock due to a false accusation that if fought could have been won, and Kraft chose to not fight, because while it would be best for the Patriots, challenging the unfair ruling would look bad for the 32. Please show me all the other cases where the other 31 sacrificed their franchise for the good of the 32.


This is ridiculous. Giving Kraft credit for the work of BB and Brady is foolish. He made a great hire.
Assuming that if there was a different owner, it would be the worst of the 32 is just wrong.

How much do you really know about what happened? Imagine this scenario --

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Are we really going to play this game? Making up a story to defend putrid actions?

Goodell and Kraft had a talk. Kraft had a talk with his lawyers. It was made clear to him that suing the league would not result in any positive outcome for the patriots, much like it never has for any team vs NFL lawsuit in the past.

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Kraft's lawyers wrote a very strong rebuttal that would have won in court.

For a team to sue the league and win is unheard of. It is just not possible, considering Kraft is the one who helped make the rules of the CBA. In this case, Kraft had two options:
1. Fight a meaningless fight in which both the organization and the league that he his a part of loses.
2. Surrender, have the same outcome, save the organization from being spited even more by the League.

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Those are far from his only options. What happened to appealing and laying out our case, as if he cared that we were falsely accused and convicted and cared about reputation and legacy?
Given only your 2 choices why would his speech not be defiant? Why would he not get up there and say he is 100% certain we did nothing, he renounces the Wells report, disagrees completely with Goodells punishment, knows he would win in court, but his agreement as an owner says he cannot sue, so he must accept an unjust punishment?
Instead he talked about how Patriots fans support that the team did nothing wrong and a lot of other fans disagree and he can't change their mind, and that he cares less about what is good for the Patriots than what the other owners want the Patriots to accept.

Imagine if you were the owner. Now imagine you were fighting a war you couldn't win.

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That is not the case.

It doesn't matter if we think you could win, it doesn't matter if the media thinks you could have one. The professionals (lawyers, inner circle) you are paying millions of dollars to you tell you that you cannot win.

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This is fantasy. That simply did not happen. Brady's lawyers know he can win, by the way.

What do you do?
a) fight against the league despite not being able to win, lose money and tarnish the reputation of the league you are a part of.
b) reluctantly accept the penalties and work to ensure that these standards are changed in the future, thus saving your relationships with your partners and not tarnishing the league further.

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If he can't win, how does the reputation of the league get tarnished?
The league is tarnished because the public believes cheating happened when it did not.
How does supporting Roger Goodell and saying you know he believes his decision was right work to change anything? Kraft passed on the opportunity to do something to effect change, and you want to give him credit for doing it?
Your whole posts seems to be the opposite of what he actually did, and your hope that he meant to do something else.

As a billionaire running a business, choice B is the logical answer. Choice A is fueled by anger and destruction.

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Choice A is fueled by what is right.
Do you support his stabbing Jastremski and McNally in the back to protect the other owners?

So imagine you went with the logical choice... And then heard this anger and hate towards you from fans who aren't even informed of the entire situation. Pretty hurtful right?

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He sold out the fans, and he sold out Tom Brady. I hope he is hurt by the reaction.

Would Kraft have backed down if he had been told he had a great chance of winning this?

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Yes. Because winning (for the Patriots) would be losing for the league, which is more important to him.

Kraft is a patriots fan who has attended a game every season since the team was formed. He was such a huge fan, in fact, that he bought the team and invested in it to make it was it is. No matter what you've spent on the Patriots, Kraft spent more to make them what they are today.

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We owe his something for the billions he has made on his investment?

You have no idea what went on behind closed doors. Sure, he could've fought for his "fans." But maybe this is what was the best of all the crappy options available. Maybe this was the way to do the least damage to the sport.

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How do you damage the sport by having an unsubstantiated cheating claim against its Champions fought and overturned.
The sport damaged itself. The lack of integrity of Bob Kraft chose to not stop it, when he could have.

Let's be honest. We're all NFL fans. Without the NFL, the patriots would be nothing. This is indeed bigger than the patriots. You can't say you hate the NFL but then watch NFL games and love an NFL franchise so much.
Being a Patriots fan makes you a fan of the NFL because the patriots are the NFL.

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What? You support the other 31 teams crapping on the Patriots because its good for 31 and bad for 1?

Kraft has history with the NFL. He has relationships. He has a responsibility to the Patriots and a love for the Patriots, which is why he was initially so angry.
He calmed down, saw his options, and made the choice.

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He was told by the other owners that he must choose between The Elite and The Help.

This is the owner who made the Patriots what they are.

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This is the owner who benefitted from Bill Belichick making the Patriots what they are.

This is taking too long, I want to stop the rhetoric, I can extend it or end it, so I am ending it.
Those are not consistent with the attitudes that made the Patriots what they are.

If he says this is what was best for the Patriots AND the NFL, and asks for trust, then I'll trust him. After all, he's been a Patriots fan longer than me and has way more invested in the team than me.

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He asked you to trust him in the same speech he sold you out.

EDIT:
Please keep personal insults out of your disagreements with me!
I do not mind having a respectful debate. I have lurked for years and know most of you somewhat well, I would like to keep the respect I have for you guys.

Also, please don't reply unless you have a point to make. For example, simply replying "wall of text" does not add to the discussion but just fills the thread and forum with meaningless spam just because of a disagreeing opinion.

Thank you!

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Robert Kraft is an embarrassment to this fan base. It is painfully clear what happened.
The other owners told him they don't care whether the Patriots are guilty or not, they expect him to support Goodell. Kraft challenging Goodell sets a precedent for players to challenge Goodell, and this is all about keeping the players down. Kraft was told to choose between The Elite and The Help.
What makes it even more disgusting is that he thinks we are stupid, wants our money, and now is making comments that he did it for the fans. 90% of the fans completely disagree with what he did, and despise him for it. There is a reason for that. He sold us out.

Interception said:

It's sad how much some of you care about what other people think about the Patriots. It's a sport, a game... It's not your life's work. So what if someone disagrees with your opinion on whether the patriots are cheaters or not? Does it really hurt you and ruin your life if other fanbases calls your favorite football team a cheater? Get a grip. I'm tired of this "tarnished our name" trash.

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so the only thing anyone should care about are things that ruin your life?
If I knock on your door every morning and tell your your wife is a whore that sleeps with transients in the alley way, do you smile and say thats just my opinion, and me thinking that won't ruin your life?
What if I go on TV and say it?

Interception said:

It's sad how much some of you care about what other people think about the Patriots. It's a sport, a game... It's not your life's work. So what if someone disagrees with your opinion on whether the patriots are cheaters or not? Does it really hurt you and ruin your life if other fanbases calls your favorite football team a cheater? Get a grip. I'm tired of this "tarnished our name" trash.

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It is NOT a sport or a game. It is a managed entertainment loosely based around the concept of physical competition.

It used to be a sport, now I fear it is only slightly more on the level than professional wrestling.

You can be a good team in this league, just don't be too good or we'll have to make an adjustment.

ensoul said:

Apperently nothing short of Kraft suing the league and going all Donald sterling and Al Davis would appease people.

People need to step back and have some prospective. Many are taking this as a personal attack. Follow through and sell your tickets then boycott the games. We all know your will be back when the pats are in the playoffs.

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yeah, well...........Kraft should have kept his mouth shut the previous week......he could have stood up then and said 'they have a gun to my head'

Hey, today is Kraft's deadline for filing his appeal. If he has learned anything from Belichick, it should be not to marry your mistakes. You own up to them, correct them, and move on. He has had ample opportunity to see that the NFL has gone off the tracks and that by supporting it instead of trying to fix it, he has alienated his fan base. He can still say, "I am human, I have reconsidered, and I erred." If he stands by his statement, however, then Kraft is not a mensch. He's a schmuck. So good luck hiring your next GM/coach who will ask, "What assurances do I have that you won't treat my precious draft picks like party favors that you hand over to the league to stay in the good graces of your rich friends?"

Interception said:

BLAH BLAH BLAH

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Sorry, that's all I read.

You're 100% wrong, in any case.

Bob Kraft is worth more than 4 billion dollars - that's what Disney paid George Lucas for Star Wars. The man will never want for anything, nor will his kids, grandkids, and down the line for generations. he's a top .001%'er. Nothing wrong with that.

But at what point is INTEGRITY more important than the feeble justification you put forth regarding the business?

I've read the Wells Report. I've read the Context offered by the Patriots. There is almost no (other than minor circumstantial) evidence that the Patriots did anything wrong.

So let me make this simple for you: for the sake of the owner's club and the Jesters in the front office, Bob Kraft allowed the patriots to be forever known as cheaters, and made his fans targets of ridicule throughout the country should they dare to wear Patriot gear in public.

The guy at Direct TV LAUGHED at me when I told him why I was dropping Sunday Football Package.

Robert Kraft = Art Modell. My sister live near Cleveland...all these years later, if you mention Modell, she'll sneer at you, because Modell took something she had invested in away from her.

Kraft did the same thing to us. Parse it anyway you want. The truth is simple in the end: he had a choice, us or the owner's club. his statement told you what he thinks of you and me.

The Patriot way...

Paul Revere "The Redcoats are coming!" ... and a Patriot nation stood up for what they believed in
Bob Kraft "We won't appeal" ... Coward

Interception said:

It's sad how much some of you care about what other people think about the Patriots. It's a sport, a game... It's not your life's work. So what if someone disagrees with your opinion on whether the patriots are cheaters or not? Does it really hurt you and ruin your life if other fanbases calls your favorite football team a cheater? Get a grip. I'm tired of this "tarnished our name" trash.

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What's sad is that you're continuing to troll on this issue.

To everyone saying this could have been won... Why are you overlooking the fact that the CBA makes it impossible for an owner to sue the league? This would end the same way it did for Al Davis.

Furthermore, you still do not have as much knowledge about the information than Kraft. Please stop acting like you are better suited to make this decision than he is.