How much credit do we owe Kraft for the success of this franchise?

This is not meant to be just a Kraft bashing thread (though as you can tell from my signature, I am still fuming from Tuesday's shameful capitulation). I can appreciate perspective just as well as any, and that's why I'm making this thread - so that people who are either critics or apologists can give their take as to where the legacy of Bob Kraft currently stands. I welcome your thoughts!

My take: I am a Millennial who has closely followed the Patriots since becoming a fan of Tom Brady in 2002 at the age of 10. Back then, I wasn't all that familiar with Bob Kraft as an owner, nor was I old enough to appreciate his role is rebuilding the franchise. Of course, as I've grown older, my perception of Kraft has changed. I realize that he played a pivotal role in keeping the franchise in New England and preventing the previous owner from relocating the team elsewhere (I also heard he seriously entertained the idea of building a new stadium in Connecticut, and at the last minute, backed out of a deal he made with the Governor there!)

Aside from that, Kraft made great efforts to re-package the franchise into something that would become more relevant to the region, in a way that it never did before, or hadn't in many years. From a business standpoint, his decisions have never been questioned. He has kept this franchise financially afloat, and deserves to be thanked for building a legitimate, first-class NFL stadium in Foxborough. I also credit Kraft with being a highly generous philanthropist and someone who has connected the success of the Patriots with local charities and foundations.

When it comes to the actual sport of football, I commend Kraft for not micro-managing the performance of the team, or becoming over-involved with its operations. Despite his unsuccessful dealings with Bill Parcels and Pete Carroll, I have to credit him with hiring Scott Pioli and Bill Belichick, and backing all their decisions as general manager and head coach.

So what's my overall opinion? Kraft helped to revive the Patriot brand, bringing his business-smarts and funding necessary infrastructure for growth. Hiring and trusting Pioli and Belichick are also, in my view, the biggest pluses of Robert Kraft's career. I can honestly say that he help lay the foundations for the Patriot dynasty. And for that, I will forever be thankful.

But that's where my appreciation ends. Kraft may still write the checks, but Brady and Belichick are the ones who create the on-field product and have played the biggest role in immortalizing this franchise. They are the reason why we watch the game. And they are the reason why we've been the so successful over the years, winning 4 Super Bowls, and contending year in and year out.

Meanwhile, there are certain things we are going to have to accept about Bob Kraft's career. Because of his failure of leadership and complacency with the NFL "Billionares club" and front-office, fans will have to live with these two things: (1) the shame of knowing that the Pats have pled guilty to two "cheating" scandals when they didn't need to and (2) rather than fight, Bob Kraft chose to accept the loss of first-round draft picks on two occasions, including the largest fine in NFL history.

There were many opportunities for Kraft to defend the honor of his team, and he simply chose not to. I won't let his mistakes overshadow the greatness of this team - but I can't pretend as though his choices did not have any impact. Today, he has condemned this franchise to further discredit and mistreatment by the NFL. He has let this team down and has lost touch with the fans who have lined his pockets with money. And from now on, we are going to have to pay the price for his cowardice.

He hired BB. That's about it.

Much more even-handed and coherent Kraft-bash than most of what I see here. I'm not thrilled with him but because of the various pre-this-week moves, I have found myself asking whether all these long-time fans forgot all the other crap.

He SERIOUSLY miscalculated the fan reaction, or he accepted the loss of this batch of fans calculating that every seat will still be sold out at Gillette.

Face-value, his statement is "All us owners have to be on the same page, screw my team and its fans." I still do wonder about the "back story," which I'm likely to wonder for years to come (what his other "calculations" are.) They could actually be even worse than what we have seen. They could be in some way exculpatory of Kraft. In all likelihood we'll never know.

As to the draft picks...two 1s and a 4, over what, 7 seasons? Both for first offenses on the rule in question? And I love how everybody becomes an instant celebrity expert analyst of each of these arcane rules. Here's the rule: Thou shalt not be a dynasty. Not in the age of Parity.

Parity didn't work on this team. This is the league making it work - or trying to.

Meanwhile other teams have tampered, had wife-beaters, child-beaters, probably father-rapists, "love boats" (Minnesota,) etc., off field. On-field, teams have legally had rules emphasized and made to make their sorry franchises competitive by altering the game. Refs have inflated balls to 16 PSI without a second thought. The officials changed the outcome of the Seattle-Pittsburgh game. Officiating is frankly a scandal right out in the open. I can't count the beloved celebrities in stickum scandals, the vaunted franchises who cheat the cap to alter the competitive balance, etc. The Pats do all those things right - the BIG things that OBVIOUSLY change the competitive balance.

Would love for there to be some big secret wheels-within-wheels plot that ends with an "Ohhhhhh that's what Kraft was doing" ending. But I recognize that's deluded as of right now, given the facts we have. Disappointing. But hell, he let Putin have a SB ring, in the name of better relations. Crap I better stop now... the board will blame Kraft for the invasion of Ukraine.

credit to brady and belichick

the hell with the jellyfish

PatsFanInVa said:

Much more even-handed and coherent Kraft-bash than most of what I see here. I'm not thrilled with him but because of the various pre-this-week moves, I have found myself asking whether all these long-time fans forgot all the other crap.

He SERIOUSLY miscalculated the fan reaction, or he accepted the loss of this batch of fans calculating that every seat will still be sold out at Gillette.

Face-value, his statement is "All us owners have to be on the same page, screw my team and its fans." I still do wonder about the "back story," which I'm likely to wonder for years to come (what his other "calculations" are.) They could actually be even worse than what we have seen. They could be in some way exculpatory of Kraft. In all likelihood we'll never know.

As to the draft picks...two 1s and a 4, over what, 7 seasons? Both for first offenses on the rule in question? And I love how everybody becomes an instant celebrity expert analyst of each of these arcane rules. Here's the rule: Thou shalt not be a dynasty. Not in the age of Parity.

Parity didn't work on this team. This is the league making it work - or trying to.

Meanwhile other teams have tampered, had wife-beaters, child-beaters, probably father-rapists, "love boats" (Minnesota,) etc., off field. On-field, teams have legally had rules emphasized and made to make their sorry franchises competitive by altering the game. Refs have inflated balls to 16 PSI without a second thought. The officials changed the outcome of the Seattle-Pittsburgh game. Officiating is frankly a scandal right out in the open. I can't count the beloved celebrities in stickum scandals, the vaunted franchises who cheat the cap to alter the competitive balance, etc. The Pats do all those things right - the BIG things that OBVIOUSLY change the competitive balance.

Would love for there to be some big secret wheels-within-wheels plot that ends with an "Ohhhhhh that's what Kraft was doing" ending. But I recognize that's deluded as of right now, given the facts we have. Disappointing. But hell, he let Putin have a SB ring, in the name of better relations. Crap I better stop now... the board will blame Kraft for the invasion of Ukraine.

Click to expand...

I really doubt he anticipated this reaction. Which is evidence that he's out of touch. I suspect the booing will hurt him. He is making decisions to destroy his own legacy. I think he does care about legacy, he just isn't very good at thinking ahead. Maybe because he's old. Oh well, guess I'd feel bad for him but I've not known many people who forget that loyalty to your friends is a value. Looks like he just has loyalty to his owner friends, instead of to his players who've made him a celebrity

He deserves credit for hiring Belichick. Beyond that (and to be fair, 'that' is a pretty big deal), not a ton. He's been a pretty good owner for the most part, as long as there isn't any hint of controversy or adversity to deal with.

He's been very good at furthering his interests as 1 of the 32 owners of the NFL. Luckily for us, I guess, those interests usually coincide with strengthening the Patriots. But man, when they don't, he's the worst of the worst.

Kraft deserves his credit but without Belichick and Brady, the Patriots are the Revolution. If they put together a 15 year run like the Patriots, then we know it's Kraft's executive brilliance.

Sports is a different business. The good owners get that it's not all about the money. They hire a great GM and maybe the HC - let them manage the sports matters. Owners still run the front office matters.

For a moment, think of the owners that play fantasy football. Currently, I'd say Haslan is the worst for firing his HC, GM, President, and effectively switching QBs, and getting Manziel. Historically the Jets and Redskins are very active in the offseason, but obviously they make bad choices....Dan Snyder has gone thru five coaches in 15 years?

Kraft has made a big dent in what overall I consider good stewardship of the Patriots....I hold out hope that he can somehow make lemons out of this lemonade. I am NOT slighting his decision. What fans should be looking at is before this week's decision that he likely should have put more pressure on Goodell - pre-empt the Wells Report.

I'm slower than most of you....it took me nearly 25 years to say enough is enough with Jerry Jones - Kraft has been much better than that overall.

RecoveringCowboy said:

Sports is a different business. The good owners get that it's not all about the money. They hire a great GM and maybe the HC - let them manage the sports matters. Owners still run the front office matters.

For a moment, think of the owners that play fantasy football. Currently, I'd say Haslan is the worst for firing his HC, GM, President, and effectively switching QBs, and getting Manziel. Historically the Jets and Redskins are very active in the offseason, but obviously they make bad choices....Dan Snyder has gone thru five coaches in 15 years?

Kraft has made a big dent in what overall I consider good stewardship of the Patriots....I hold out hope that he can somehow make lemons out of this lemonade. I am NOT slighting his decision. What fans should be looking at is before this week's decision that he likely should have put more pressure on Goodell - pre-empt the Wells Report.

I'm slower than most of you....it took me nearly 25 years to say enough is enough with Jerry Jones - Kraft has been much better than that overall.

Click to expand...

What did Irving get for bringing blow through an airport?

RecoveringCowboy said:

Sports is a different business. The good owners get that it's not all about the money. They hire a great GM and maybe the HC - let them manage the sports matters. Owners still run the front office matters.

For a moment, think of the owners that play fantasy football. Currently, I'd say Haslan is the worst for firing his HC, GM, President, and effectively switching QBs, and getting Manziel. Historically the Jets and Redskins are very active in the offseason, but obviously they make bad choices....Dan Snyder has gone thru five coaches in 15 years?

Kraft has made a big dent in what overall I consider good stewardship of the Patriots....I hold out hope that he can somehow make lemons out of this lemonade. I am NOT slighting his decision. What fans should be looking at is before this week's decision that he likely should have put more pressure on Goodell - pre-empt the Wells Report.

I'm slower than most of you....it took me nearly 25 years to say enough is enough with Jerry Jones - Kraft has been much better than that overall.

Click to expand...

This was the final straw that it took for me to realize that American sports are sports in name only. They truly are businesses, there are no teams buy only franchises and for many teams success is only relevant to keep selling the merch. Sure winning is nice but all that money is even nicer.

You all should go into the time machine and enjoy the ineptitude of Billy Sullivan, Victor Kiam and James Orthwein... if you think things are bad now, try a 1-15 season or the series of bad moves that plagued this team prior to Mr. Kraft buying it.. years of mediocrity, marked with occasional winning seasons...

He's an actual fan of the team since AFL days [season ticket holder since 1971]

He bought an option for Foxboro raceway in 1985

He bought the useless old stadium, out of bankruptcy in 1988

He turned down 75 million from Orthwein to buy out the lease on the stadium Kraft now owned

Orthwein intended to move the team to St Louis but

Kraft offered him the highest price ever paid for any sports franchise for what was considered a dog of a franchise because

It had a horrible stadium and politics that made public funding or help unlikely

He built a stadium with his own funds. Any other owners do that? [not sure]

After the rift with Parcells, he hired the current 2nd best coach in football.

Having learned from both experiences, he hired the failed Cleveland coach and gave him complete control of the football operations.

There isn't anyone angrier or more disappointed in Kraft than I am. But, if you've been around since the very beginning as I and others here have been, you'll likely acknowledge that the vast majority of his work here establishes him as an excellent NFL owner. This was a mistake, and a big one, but it shouldn't cause people to trash his overall performance. Ray Clay did a nice job above in enumerating some of his accomplishments.

So, people that think they know for sure what he's going to do, note that he bought a useless old horse track to leverage stadium event scheduling, then bought the stadium out of bankruptcy, then nine years later found himself in a room with an owner who wanted to buy out a lease and move to St. Louis and used that leverage to keep the team here.

For those who think Kraft is some dummy who just folded because he gives up on things.

Even nine years after buying a crap race track, he has to consider moving to Hartford to get even minimal infrastucture kick in from Massachusetts to build his own stadium.

This franchise without a decent stadium for almost 40 years, likely should have moved many times over it's history and I think both major owners are under appreciated.

I also think Kraft is crafty and cunning and thinks long term and i think he eventually taked goodell out, something that needs to be done and is more important than any short term punishments [theough the Brady case will put lots of pressure on the league through the NFLPA].

Caesar was just getting a pat on the back, he thought. i can't imagine Goodell is really that secure,he has screwed up a lot.

BradyFTW! said:

He deserves credit for hiring Belichick. Beyond that (and to be fair, 'that' is a pretty big deal), not a ton. He's been a pretty good owner for the most part, as long as there isn't any hint of controversy or adversity to deal with.

He's been very good at furthering his interests as 1 of the 32 owners of the NFL. Luckily for us, I guess, those interests usually coincide with strengthening the Patriots. But man, when they don't, he's the worst of the worst.

Click to expand...

If Kraft was such a mediocre owner, why were Bruins fans pleading with him to buy the Bruins?
Let's see how this plays out before we tie him to a stake.

vyrago said:

If Kraft was such a mediocre owner, why were Bruins fans pleading with him to buy the Bruins?
Let's see how this plays out before we tie him to a stake.

Click to expand...

I'd love to, but since his team and fans are still paying for taping in a forbidden location 8 years ago, the play out seems obvious. I hope I'm wrong, I really do. He's done many marvelous things, but I wouldn't want to be in a situation where I needed him to have my back. He's disappointed me greatly in that area, twice now. First time, shame on......... (unless, of course, I'm one of the 32 money making buddies. Then I know he's got my back.)

PatsFanInVa said:

Much more even-handed and coherent Kraft-bash than most of what I see here. I'm not thrilled with him but because of the various pre-this-week moves, I have found myself asking whether all these long-time fans forgot all the other crap.

He SERIOUSLY miscalculated the fan reaction, or he accepted the loss of this batch of fans calculating that every seat will still be sold out at Gillette.

Face-value, his statement is "All us owners have to be on the same page, screw my team and its fans." I still do wonder about the "back story," which I'm likely to wonder for years to come (what his other "calculations" are.) They could actually be even worse than what we have seen. They could be in some way exculpatory of Kraft. In all likelihood we'll never know.

As to the draft picks...two 1s and a 4, over what, 7 seasons? Both for first offenses on the rule in question? And I love how everybody becomes an instant celebrity expert analyst of each of these arcane rules. Here's the rule: Thou shalt not be a dynasty. Not in the age of Parity.

Parity didn't work on this team. This is the league making it work - or trying to.

Meanwhile other teams have tampered, had wife-beaters, child-beaters, probably father-rapists, "love boats" (Minnesota,) etc., off field. On-field, teams have legally had rules emphasized and made to make their sorry franchises competitive by altering the game. Refs have inflated balls to 16 PSI without a second thought. The officials changed the outcome of the Seattle-Pittsburgh game. Officiating is frankly a scandal right out in the open. I can't count the beloved celebrities in stickum scandals, the vaunted franchises who cheat the cap to alter the competitive balance, etc. The Pats do all those things right - the BIG things that OBVIOUSLY change the competitive balance.

Would love for there to be some big secret wheels-within-wheels plot that ends with an "Ohhhhhh that's what Kraft was doing" ending. But I recognize that's deluded as of right now, given the facts we have. Disappointing. But hell, he let Putin have a SB ring, in the name of better relations. Crap I better stop now... the board will blame Kraft for the invasion of Ukraine.

Click to expand...

And maybe one of the biggest scandals - the league turned a blind eye while the Colts tanked an entire season to be able to draft Luck. It's "more probable than not" that the owner and the GM conspired in this.

You guys make it sound like Kraft did all this for altruistic reasons. He bought a struggling NFL franchise for dirt cheap and kept the team in MA where a passionate fanbase existed. Make no mistake, a magic 8-ball could make money with an NFL franchise.

The best thing Kraft did was learn that he needed to get out of the way of the GM and coach.

But, he is making loads of cash from the Patriots. And before you start talking about him caring about the fans. Ask yourself why he would turn 1500 endzone seats, where fans cheer the loudest, into a friggin lounge area with TVs and a bar.

He is about the money, he is a good schmoozer, he knows how to get fans to love him, but make no mistake, he saw the Patriots as a way to make huge loot and that is exactly what he is doing.

RayClay said:

He's an actual fan of the team since AFL days [season ticket holder since 1971]

Click to expand...

Apparently he is a bigger fan of money.

RayClay said:

He bought an option for Foxboro raceway in 1985

He bought the useless old stadium, out of bankruptcy in 1988

He turned down 75 million from Orthwein to buy out the lease on the stadium Kraft now owned

Click to expand...

I used to give him credit for saving the franchise but no longer he did none of this in the best interest of the Patriots he did it to trap the current owners so they would have no choice but to sell. He muscled his way in.

RayClay said:

Orthwein intended to move the team to St Louis but

Click to expand...

As much as it sucked for us owners consider this all the time.

RayClay said:

Kraft offered him the highest price ever paid for any sports franchise for what was considered a dog of a franchise because

Click to expand...

It was likely going to be his only chance to ever own a Franchise he offered what he had to to get it and not a penny more. Every franchise since has bea. His price so the idea he over paid to save this team is false.

RayClay said:

It had a horrible stadium and politics that made public funding or help unlikely

Click to expand...

The horrible stadium was his already and it was how he trapped the previous owner. Convenient he will get credit for improving it.

RayClay said:

He built a stadium with his own funds. Any other owners do that? [not sure]

Click to expand...

He exhausted every option before deciding on this. He would of taken public funds if he could of he got shut out of Boston and his best option was CT or do it himself.

RayClay said:

After the rift with Parcells, he hired the current 2nd best coach in football.

Click to expand...

And didn't properly support him and he was gone within a few years only to go onto win national championships and SB wins. Kraft got diminishing results from the second best coach in the NFL yippie.

RayClay said:

Having learned from both experiences, he hired the failed Cleveland coach and gave him complete control of the football operations.

Click to expand...

here is the real kicker I won't even give him credit for this. We can pretend kraft thought BB would be this good but he is on record as stating his prior experience with BB and how BB had spoke of cap management being a key to success. So basically he hired a coach he knew would be frugal he had no clue he would be this good but he knew the coach wouldn't destroy his budget.
-

Bottom line is you can go back to everything positive we credited kraft with and now having the knowledge that he cares more about money than anything else it paints a different picture.

He is no longer the savior of the franchise just a money grubbing whore who forced his way in with his wallet. He was not saving anything he was making an investment.

He lost all benefit of doubt from everything this man does is for his wallet.

Kraft just answered this question: The "32" control the destiny of every franchise

In all seriousness, Kraft has excellent business instincts, patience, and foresight. Just look at the measured approach he took in order to eventually gain control of NE.
From Wikipedia:
"In 1985, Kraft bought a 10-year option on Foxboro Raceway, a horse track adjacent to the stadium. The option would allow Kraft to prevent the financially struggling Patriots' owners from holding non-Patriot events at Sullivan Stadium while races were being held.[21] In 1988, Kraft outbid several competitors to buy the stadium out of bankruptcy court from Billy Sullivan for $22 million. The stadium was considered to be outdated and nearly worthless, but the purchase included the stadium's lease to the Patriots, which ran through 2001.[22] In 1994, new Patriots owner James Orthwein offered Kraft $75 million to buy out the remainder of the team's lease at the Foxboro Stadium, which, if Kraft agreed, would free Orthwein to move the Patriots to St. Louis. However, Kraft rejected the offer and made a counter-bid—a then NFL-record $172 million for the outright purchase of the Patriots, an offer Orthwein accepted. No other sports team had ever sold for a price this high in any league at that time"

As owner, Kraft greatest strength was understanding the importance of having the best head coach possible. Tuna, Pete, and BB......pretty strong leadership (when we look back at it). Buying BB with draft picks was brash and bold....and Kraft has been rewarded for his risk. I hate to give the guy any props after his lay down, but the man has turned risk into success for decades.
I've been brutally bashing Bob for the past 48 hours.......a free pass to burn down the house.......but I'm over it. Bob's done a better job than every other owner out there....and NE's path to success began in 1994.