Don't hate on Kraft just yet

I guess fighting for what is right... Loses over the mighty dollar...

Why did the language that Kraft used go past most people? More exactly, he pointed specifically to collectivism over individualism; the bit about one team not being greater than the league. FYI: the whole collectivism versus individualism bit is a direct map to the war on consciousness. And, no- this does not imply that Kraft is correct. Rather, he does not have the courage/power to stand up to those who are behind the agenda of collectivism over individualism. (His quick about-face and utterances are testimony to this.)

bobbutts said:

The best way to get a discussion going on the internet is to say something controversial or wrong. I think it adds to the discussion. I don't need to read a thread that's essentially one post and a bunch of +1's.

There are plenty of people here that know a ton about the Patriots, but on this issue there seem to be plenty of unknowns, so without the facts, even the smartest and most informed people are going to have trouble making total sense of things.

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For example: Is your name really Bob Butts?

Rhodey said:

Why did the language that Kraft used go past most people? More exactly, he pointed specifically to collectivism over individualism; the bit about one team not being greater than the league. FYI: the whole collectivism versus individualism bit is a direct map to the war on consciousness. And, no- this does not imply that Kraft is correct. Rather, he does not have the courage/power to stand up to those who are behind the agenda of collectivism over individualism. (His quick about-face and utterances are testimony to this.)

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Great point. If I were to take a guess it would be that most people would have backed him through the entire appeal process even if he lost and would have respected him and the brand as much as, if not more, they have in the past. Instead he really looks completely spineless and is no longer respected as much as he once was. That's a shame because he did do a lot with this franchise and deserves a lot of credit but it will be difficult for many to look past this including myself.

RayClay said:

Well, if you could get the majority, or more,on your side, you could get rid of goodell.

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Kraft had all of the fans on his side and that should have been enough. Even if he lost his appeal he would still have been respected for trying but instead he folded.

I'm confused. The never-say-die side of me says we need to wait and see what happens with Brady's appeal--if that goes well, maybe that will tell us something about what went on in Kraft's discussion with Goodell. But then I think, it doesn't make any sense for Brady to be exonerated in part or in whole, and then for the team to still be punished when everyone other than Brady was cleared in the report. The ONLY way that would make sense is if they tried to pin it solely on the ball attendants--they could say, "Wells was wrong in saying that Brady was probably generally aware, and no one else on the team knew anythimg, but it is still probable than not that the ball guys did something, and the team is accountable for its employees." If THAT happens, however, it will really make Kraft look like crud for throwing to little guys under the bus. I still want to wait and see what happens in the appeal before deciding for sure what to make of this, but it is hard to see how right now how what Kraft did could lead to any kind of a positive result.

Rhodey said:

Why did the language that Kraft used go past most people? More exactly, he pointed specifically to collectivism over individualism; the bit about one team not being greater than the league. FYI: the whole collectivism versus individualism bit is a direct map to the war on consciousness. And, no- this does not imply that Kraft is correct. Rather, he does not have the courage/power to stand up to those who are behind the agenda of collectivism over individualism. (His quick about-face and utterances are testimony to this.)

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English please.

Rhodey said:

Why did the language that Kraft used go past most people? More exactly, he pointed specifically to collectivism over individualism; the bit about one team not being greater than the league. FYI: the whole collectivism versus individualism bit is a direct map to the war on consciousness. And, no- this does not imply that Kraft is correct. Rather, he does not have the courage/power to stand up to those who are behind the agenda of collectivism over individualism. (His quick about-face and utterances are testimony to this.)

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Found the Rand fan.

Tony2046 said:

Kraft had all of the fans on his side and that should have been enough. Even if he lost his appeal he would still have been respected for trying but instead he folded.

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What appeal? Is there an appeal process for owners in the NFL?

RayClay said:

What appeal? Is there an appeal process for owners in the NFL?

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Yes, as others have pointed out SD won an appeal on the sticky towel fiasco.

The League is creating a new award called the Robert Kraft Shield Award. This is to be given to the owner who places the interest of the League above that of his team and its fans. The winner this year and every year is Robert Kraft because no other owner is interested in winning this award. Kraft was worried about his legacy with the league. Well he has earned his legacy now with the only fans that matter.

flasox27 said:

The League is creating a new award called the Robert Kraft Shield Award. This is to be given to the owner who places the interest of the League above that of his team and its fans. The winner this year and every year is Robert Kraft because no other owner is interested in winning this award. Kraft was worried about his legacy with the league. Well he has earned his legacy now with the only fans that matter.

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The only fans that matter to him are 31 other owners, Roger, and the 31 other fan bases.

He couldn't give a rat's ass about this fan base.

flasox27 said:

Yes, as others have pointed out SD won an appeal on the sticky towel fiasco.

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Well, in that case, the league ruled that San diego had not broken any rules. they were fined because they didn't produce the towel quick enough. The only Patriots charged with not cooperating [the NFL Nazi equivalent of an offense] is Brady and he has an actual union appeal.

If it was the same, Kraft would have to depend on Goodell saying nothing was done [after his ridiculous decision] and that the only punishment was for not cooperating, which brings us back to Brady, who already is appealing.

Maybe Kraft talked this over with a lawyer, or something.

The appeal "process" is, please reverse the whole thing voluntarily Godell, which he could do anyway. There is no process.

http://fox5sandiego.com/2012/11/07/chargers-fined-20k-after-sticky-towel-probe/

patsfanincleveland said:

The only fans that matter to him are 31 other owners, Roger, and the 31 other fan bases.

He couldn't give a rat's ass about this fan base.

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Maybe he'll sell the team.

Tony2046 said:

Great point. If I were to take a guess it would be that most people would have backed him through the entire appeal process even if he lost and would have respected him and the brand as much as, if not more, they have in the past. Instead he really looks completely spineless and is no longer respected as much as he once was. That's a shame because he did do a lot with this franchise and deserves a lot of credit but it will be difficult for many to look past this including myself.

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There is no process. Goodell knows how Kraft feels and could rescind if he wants to. Goodell is the appeals process, you beg him to drop the punishment, then he says no.

There would be no weighing of evidence, opening of the case, because there is no process.

This sham of an investigation showed how badly broken the NFL really is. Kraft's concession effectively said, I am not going to try to fix it; this is our product, take it or leave it. Fine, but this fan sees where his train is headed, and I disembark here.

To all the haters: just remember to come here and eat crow if Goodell simultaneously reduces sanctions against Brady and the Patriots.

I am not clear on whether Goodell can unilaterally modify Vincent's decision against the team if there is no appeal--it would seem strange if he could, but perhaps commissioner review is a given. In that case, we can't rule out that there was some kind of understanding that Goodell would be more inclined to lessen things if pats didn't formally appeal. BUT, Pats haters will still see through this more than not--though as some have said, they'll hate no matter what, so so what? If Pats and Brady's penalties are both lessened, then we might have a different take on what Kraft just did. But I feel like I'm guilty of contrived optimism when I think that way.

Eric Manchester said:

I'm confused. The never-say-die side of me says we need to wait and see what happens with Brady's appeal--if that goes well, maybe that will tell us something about what went on in Kraft's discussion with Goodell. But then I think, it doesn't make any sense for Brady to be exonerated in part or in whole, and then for the team to still be punished when everyone other than Brady was cleared in the report. The ONLY way that would make sense is if they tried to pin it solely on the ball attendants--they could say, "Wells was wrong in saying that Brady was probably generally aware, and no one else on the team knew anythimg, but it is still probable than not that the ball guys did something, and the team is accountable for its employees." If THAT happens, however, it will really make Kraft look like crud for throwing to little guys under the bus. I still want to wait and see what happens in the appeal before deciding for sure what to make of this, but it is hard to see how right now how what Kraft did could lead to any kind of a positive result.

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You are confused.
There is no "it" to pin on the ball attendants.
The balls were not deflated.
They temporarily lost psi because of the cold & wet conditions.

Brady needs to appeal & sue the league & Goodell for this travesty.

neuronet said:

To all the haters: just remember to come here and eat crow if Goodell simultaneously reduces sanctions against Brady and the Patriots.

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So what?
"Reducing" sanctions for an offense that did not occur?
NO sanctions are acceptable.

Too many Beta males here.