EDIT: Schefter Patriots get taken through the back channel by NFL

JJC said:

If I were Kraft, I'd make it clear that the only way Goodell keeps his job is if he does the following:

1. Upon Further Review: Throw Wells and his report under the bus. Their report was biased and not what he asked them to produce.
2. Upon Further Review: Throw Kensil, Gardi, and Vincent under the bus. They manipulated the information that they provided to him and the investigators.
3. Regarding Brady: There is no evidence against Brady or the staff - it was nature alone that was responsible and we apologize to everyone involved. No suspension and complete exoneration.
4. Regarding Kraft: Where there is no crime, there is no coverup. The draft picks are restored and the fine is rescinded. Apologies for the ensuing mess and I will be establishing a new league policy enforcement committee comprised of five owners and Bob Kraft will be the chairman.
5. Regarding the NFLPA: See #4. The Commissioner will no longer be a Commissar, but will answer to the ownership committee.

But somehow, I think we left that world a long time ago.

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I'm thinking it's more like: if we fire Goodell, and lighten the penalty, will you forego an apology and stay on as chair for the upcoming broadcast negotiations, please Mr. Kraft?

Those back channels may be news to Goodell, if they are some concerned owner (Jerry?). That would make Roger's day wouldn't it?

one of the posts in the Above the Law blog mentioned in another thread (great read btw, thanks for that link!) mentioned that it's all been about Goodell's power in the recent enforcement actions. It seems that's true, and if it is Roger has committed a cardinal sin: he forgot the Golden Rule, and who has the gold is who he works for.

Also found this interesting item from around the last October NFL owners meeting, indicating Goodell's job approval might be less than unanimous among owners. Could Deflategate be the last straw? http://nesn.com/2014/10/roger-goodells-job-likely-protected-by-contract-details/

supafly said:

I think it's safe to say that all logic went out the window months ago--both from the NFL, and also from many of the posters here who claimed that we'd receive a fair/independent investigation from Pash and Wells that would not only exonerate the Pats, but also have Goodell fired, while seeing punishments thrown at our rival teams and league execs.

Obviously, there's absolutely no way that the N.England Patriots will be walking away scot free. If that's truly what you believe than you're either on drugs, stupid, or just both. At this point, the best we can hope for is a reduction or removal of Brady's suspension, and the return of our first round draft pick. I couldn't possibly care less how that occurred. Nothing is going to stop the barrage of internet memes, talk show chatter, or ridiculous signs that will come from the opposing fanbases. To them, I have no concern anymore.

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I pretty much agree Sup. Hard to see anyway the team walks away sanction free. Trying to get that forst rounder back is what Kraft and staff should be targeting.
The one area I disagree with you on is placing Brady's suspension and the Patriots' punishment in the same boat. IMHO these are two distinctly different boats. Brady is an employee. Kraft/the Patriots are by extension, as funny as this is, the league. The two punishments have to be viewed as separate issues and very unlikely to both be resolved at an owner's meeting.

I am modestly optimistic Brady can prevail if he can get someone outside the league, maybe a judge, to say "evidence doesn't support conviction" or even just "the punishment is not in line whatsoever with other identified mishandling of footballs" (see SD, see Minn). IMHO the Brady part of this is something the league will be dealing with, likely, for many months to come. And I'd bet they have a modicum of concern on what could happen.

In my fool's paradise I am living in for saying this, my ideal compromise would see Kraft's legal team, Brady's legal team, and the League to come to an agreement on a specific third party to thoroughly review the league and wells' investigation. A third party that can't be assailed due to its reputation. This third party would be asked to investigate to answer one question only: iis Brady 50.01% or more guilty or not? If it isn't 50.01% guilty than the league accepts it and all punishments rescinded. If a 50.01% guilty is affirmed, the Patriots/Brady must accept the punishments. Obviously it ain't going to happen but this a compromise I would love to see. Look, if the league is so confident in its actions and the Wells Report, they have nothing to fear having their actions/decisions. They will be reaffirmed and now glowingly validated. Further, the matter is over for the league by agreement. Conversely, for the Patriots/Brady who felt the league prejudged them and the evidence doesn't support guilt, now they have their fair and unassailable third party to make their case to.
Again I know that is almost silly to write it (much less think it could happen), however, being there are 2 diametrically opposed sides who are very dug in for a protracted and even nasty fight, why not all agree to a squeaky clean third party to take a fair look at it and make the final decision.

The only back-channel discussion that should be going on is Jonathan with 23 other clubs!

Just had a thought: what if the owners voted to reject the Wells Report as fatally flawed by the refusal to consider that the loss of pressure was due to the operation of natural law, and there is no direct evidence that the balls were tampered with?

Goodell has been harping on the integrity of the game, to the point that he has trashed the integrity of Kraft and Brady, without solid evidence to back it up.

If Kraft has integrity he will fight to the bitter end to clear his name. The other owners do not want to see that happen.

ausbacker said:

I concur. Kraft will do what he does; broker a deal. Hopefully J.Kraft has manoeuvred cleverly and in tandem with Brady knowing full well his intentions.

My issue with Deflategate is the fact that the NFL operates a fly by the seat of your pants operation. For a multibillion dollar organisation, that simply isn't good enough. Hopefully pissing off Kraft and the Patriots is a leap forward for the administration and standing of the game.

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Agreed. I take it a step further too. Operating decision making by the seat of your pants for decisions that grossly smear a player like Brady is beyond appalling.

The media's support/validation of the smearing with only a scintilla of skepticism is the rotting stinking cherry on top. Then again shame on me for expecting anything more from a bunch that sandwiches a story on the China-Russia alliance between stories of some asshat kardashian having a real hoot buying a bag of chips at the grocery store

Kraft should be hammering two things in these discussions:

1. A careful review of the scientific evidence is going to show that it is likely the Patriots footballs were not deflated by anything but natural causes. This has been documented throroughly here and this is thinking is beginning to make inroads in the media who are much more likely to believe it.

2. Any of kind of discovery in a legal action is going to embarass the league with respect to both the handling of the investigation by NFL staff and leaks to the press, far more than backtracking on the cheating element.

The Patriots won't get very far expecting a full exoneration. No one in the media or likely the NFL community will buy explanations for the texts, "lack of cooperation" etc. The "Patriots are shady" is just too strongly ingrained to overcome all of the accusations. Kraft should let them think that and come to agreement that voids the cheating element while letting the NFL save face by citing lack of cooperation.

TheBostonStraggler said:

I pretty much agree Sup. Hard to see anyway the team walks away sanction free. Trying to get that forst rounder back is what Kraft and staff should be targeting.

The one area I disagree with you on is placing Brady's suspension and the Patriots' punishment in the same boat. IMHO these are two distinctly different boats. Brady is an employee. Kraft/the Patriots are by extension, as funny as this is, the league. The two punishments have to be viewed as separate issues and very unlikely to both be resolved at an owner's meeting.

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Yes, that's an excellent point that should be clarified. I think I may envision some sort of "behind the scenes" agreement to reduce the suspension (I highly doubt that any deal would include the removal of the entire four game suspension). Of course, it wouldn't be likely to include both pieces all at once.

Perhaps it would include the understanding that Brady will appeal and seek comfort on his own, although as we know, we don't exactly need an agreement to assume that's coming. Of course, there's another place that one may go here, but I'd rather leave that to the imagination for fear of pissing anyone off. Let's just say that it may include the fact that both sides would like to avoid litigation for various reasons.

Gumby said:

The only back-channel discussion that should be going on is Jonathan with 23 other clubs!

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While true--what issue would any of the other 23 clubs have in this particular instance? I can understand not caring for the current justice system that's in place at the moment (and even that is unlikely to hold 24 votes), but why would anyone think that 75 percent of the owners wish to remove the commissioner over deflategate, in and of itself?

If anything, they'll decide on a different type of system. Let's face it--the owners don't "hate" Roger Goodell a fraction of what's implied on this forum. The fans do. He's been a part of some savvy business decisions that have increased the amount of money in everyone's pockets, not to mention the league as a whole. Do you honestly think that we're just suddenly going to go from giving him a massive raise over the past several years to the total opposite end of the spectrum? All because of how he handled a potential cheating scandal? Personally, I don't buy it. The time to strike may have already passed when Kraft gave his support.

If I'm Kraft, I offer the following to the NFL:

- remove all penalties thrown at the team and Brady
- fire Mike Kensil immediately
- penalise the Colts with the loss of a draft pick for manipulating a ball on the sidelines during the game

Anything else and Goodell can go swivel. We'll see you in court...

It is a lose-lose situation for NFL and No-Good-el.

The Well's BS report and the "punishment" meant war and No-Good-el pulled the gun.
NOW, they have to retract and make peace?!? This alone makes them look a Pxssy and spineless.

Kraft would be a fool not to leverage it to the fullest. Sadly, there will be some sweeteners we as fans won't know about.

borg said:

1) Absolve NE of all charges
2) Dismiss all punishments
3) Public apology to the Patriots by the NFL brass
4) Immediate enshrinement of Brady in Canton
5) An award of a supplemental draft pick (#33) at the end of first round as compensation for NE's pain and suffering
6) An additional supplemental draft pick (#34) awarded to NE as compensation for Goodell's Spygate over reach
7) Dismissal of Troy Vincent for malfeasance
8) A four game ban of Goodell for failure to preserve the integrity of the commissioner's office
9) Dismissal of all NFL employees involved in the Brady sting
10) Reinstatement of all NE personnel erroneously accused by the NFL....and significant compensation for their pain and suffering
11) Termination of all business with Ted Wells and company with no future dealings
12) The NFL files a malpractice complaint on Ted Wells with the appropriate Bar Associations
13) Indy gets fined $25,000 (the correct punishment) for gauging a football during AFC Championship game
14) All NFL Network employees that danced on NE's grave must be dismissed

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Would you like a pony as well?

rochrist said:

Would you like a pony as well?

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@borg strikes me as more of a Clydesdale rider.

Ross12 said:

What the hell is a "back-channel conversation anyway"? I would assume this is just Kraft and Goodell in a hotel conference room duking it out.

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Probably one or more owners acting as intermediaries.

Chiuba E. Obele said:

another owner weighs in ....F*** these guys

ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk
Texans owner Bob McNair defends Roger Goodell's handling of #DeflateGate http://wp.me/p14QSB-9M7s

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Kraft should tell McNair that he publicly supported Goodell also, even when it wasn't popular to do so. That gained Kraft zero goodwill or latitude when a controversy came up. He should tell McNair that the Texans will be good some day, the Colts will complain to the league office about them, and then they'll be the ones getting penalized.

As far as coming to a compromise about the punishments, Kraft should remember this: By invoking spygate in this ruling, the league is telling him that his franchise is on probation permanently and will always be treated differently. What if some team complains about issues with their helmet communications at Gillette 5 years from now or a player is found to have worn spikes that were .5 mm longer than the league recommended standard in 2024? Say good bye to another million dollars and a 1st round pick. Unless Kraft can obtain some assurances that the people and process involved in penalizing teams will also change, I wouldn't accept a deal with the league.

@Koma
Yes this permanent probation is a big point. And if Pats cough now they are up ****es creek . There must be a system in place where any complaint about a team must be checked out for its possible validity before they release anything to the press. Stop the leaks !!
Of course exoneration wont change the opinion of most, but at least there might be a chance of reducing a bit the number of attacks by media. Felger et al gloating about how they were right all along. And why didn't Brady admit all along, and in the end he did lie. Many will still bring it up just as they do with rams walk thru. The Pats have their 4 SB's now it is time to protect that achievement. If they can do that even if it means semi-sacrificing this season I am ok with that. Also I have the feeling that the NFLPA may want to make an example of this case for CBA reasons.
Integrity of the game is very important and what tarnishes it more then psi is domestic violence . But also integrity of the Pats is too.
The fact is no gave a damn about psi before and the NFL was not ready for such a thing, if they were they would at least know that psi fluctuates depending on weather.
Many were taping signals before spygate even though there was a rule in place. So the NFL sent a memo out to clarify things. The Pats continued and were punished.
The Pats need their day in court ! And I am sure Brady has no problem to hand over phone there, cause he is innocent.

nowayback said:

@Koma
Yes this permanent probation is a big point. And if Pats cough now they are up ****es creek . There must be a system in place where any complaint about a team must be checked out for its possible validity before they release anything to the press. Stop the leaks !!
Of course exoneration wont change the opinion of most, but at least there might be a chance of reducing a bit the number of attacks by media. Felger et al gloating about how they were right all along. And why didn't Brady admit all along, and in the end he did lie. Many will still bring it up just as they do with rams walk thru. The Pats have their 4 SB's now it is time to protect that achievement. If they can do that even if it means semi-sacrificing this season I am ok with that. Also I have the feeling that the NFLPA may want to make an example of this case for CBA reasons.
Integrity of the game is very important and what tarnishes it more then psi is domestic violence . But also integrity of the Pats is too.
The fact is no gave a damn about psi before and the NFL was not ready for such a thing, if they were they would at least know that psi fluctuates depending on weather.
Many were taping signals before spygate even though there was a rule in place. So the NFL sent a memo out to clarify things. The Pats continued and were punished.
The Pats need their day in court ! And I am sure Brady has no problem to hand over phone there, cause he is innocent.

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One thing I would add, is that you go to court for a determination on what can be narrow issues. Everyone (not you, the media) talking about him having to turn over his phone might be wrong. If the Patriots/Brady sue over whether or not the Wells Report proves its conclusion (or some related issue, such as was the punishment arbitrary/baseless), that does not require an entire new investigation of whether Patriots/Brady did something, the only concern will be the report. So Brady's phone record would not be relevant/admissible on that issue, because relevance is determined by the issue before the court.

Reading other fan bases thoughts on negotiations, they think the Pats want it ! They cant imagine its probably the NFL that wants to resolve this . Cause of course Kraft has godell in his back pocket, that's how the Pats got off with such a "small" punishment.

Lol, "the weak do what they must, the strong do what they will". NFL wouldn't be bargaining if they had a solid position to begin with, with the punishments. This has to be unprecedented, a league negotiating down a punishment with a team out of fear.