EDIT: Schefter Patriots get taken through the back channel by NFL

I would love to see how these negotiations go down. No way will the NFL backtrack after that letter and the harsh penalties. And I hope to God Kraft doesn't agree to anything other than the minimum fine for equipment that doesnt meet requirements even if it was just the weather. And if Kraft actually negotiates a deal then Brady getting a neutral person to hear his appeal has to be part of it. I say just take the nfl to court for all of this. The fans waited 10 years for another super bowl and we had to constantly debate people about spygate and now we get this. The fans deserve the team to be cleared as well

JarOfMayo51 said:

Expecting 100% complete and total exoneration after what we've witnessed over the last couple weeks is really just lunacy..

and hey... i would absolutely love for that outcome as well.. but it just won't happen realistically and you're only setting yourself up for disappointment

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I think it's safe to say that all logic went out the window months ago--both from the NFL, and also from many of the posters here who claimed that we'd receive a fair/independent investigation from Pash and Wells that would not only exonerate the Pats, but also have Goodell fired, while seeing punishments thrown at our rival teams and league execs.

Obviously, there's absolutely no way that the N.England Patriots will be walking away scot free. If that's truly what you believe than you're either on drugs, stupid, or just both. At this point, the best we can hope for is a reduction or removal of Brady's suspension, and the return of our first round draft pick. I couldn't possibly care less how that occurs. Nothing is going to stop the barrage of internet memes, talk show chatter, or ridiculous signs that will come from the opposing fanbases. To them, I have no concern anymore.

signbabybrady said:

This seems odd to me. I dont see how the NFL can hand down the stiffest penalty ever and then on a back channel discussion reduce it a week later.

If the Patriots and/or Tom Brady want any real redemption I don't see a back channel agreement making sense either.

I could on the other hand envision negotiating to get an immediate and out of court resolution. Something to the effect of both TB and the Patriots agreeing to one time independent arbitration where both sides accept the final decision And both sides agree on the arbitrator.

We would have to agree to no further suits and they would have to agree they can't be the arbitrator no one has to back down from their stance and lose face.

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This a negotiation that is ongoing over time. There may not be any back-channel agreements this week, but the stage is set for one down the line.

Who's got the leverage? I'd say Kraft and the Patriots, who can afford to let this situation fester a bit more. They've already been punished (harshest ever doled out) and had public opinion galvanized against them by the NFL. They have nothing to lose by waiting it out...allowing more and more people to take a closer look at the underlying motives of the League Execs, Wells, and RG himself. it can only get worse for the NFL, whereas it can only get better for the Patriots....given time. That's why Kraft should sue, as it increases his leverage while forcing the public to scrutinize the NFL's leadership vacuum. Two can play at this game. Tom Brady is in a similar position, and it appears his legal counsel has already laid this out for him.

And for those waiting to see if the other owners will come to Kraft's defense, it won't happen until the winds of public opinion start to shift. Until then they'll have their fingers in the air, waiting to see when/if that shift happens. Let's face it, they're competitive too. And many probably fancy themselves in the new inner circle of NFL power brokers.

JJC said:

Well, that makes things even more interesting. I would think that gives Kraft and Brady even more leverage.

I was thinking that Roger, being the turd that he is, would strike a deal for his own skin. If that is not on the table, then I would love to see them all hang together. Maybe there is a RICO suit against the league office and the owners could throw the whole cabal under the bus and start fresh!

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BINGO we have BINGO. I totally agree with the RICO idea. Even did a little research and hope to post something tomorrow.

One possibility:

Roger Goodell says he reviewed the Patriots response and received additional information from JM, JJ, and Brady via the appeals process. Based on this information, he cannot reach the conclusion that it is more likely than not that the Patriots deliberately tampered with the footballs. Ted Wells and Troy Vincent did not have all of the information when they wrote their report and handed down the initial penalties. Reduces penalty to 500k fine and 4th round draft pick (in line with Cleveland texting and Atlanta music penalties) for a) lack of institutional control with respect to footballs (bathroom visit) and b) lack of initial cooperation with investigation.

signbabybrady said:

This seems odd to me. I dont see how the NFL can hand down the stiffest penalty ever and then on a back channel discussion reduce it a week later.

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I agree - I think that Roger is trying to make an accommodation, because the other owners have told him he went too far and to "fix things". However, I just don't see Kraft as accepting the compromise position after being slandered so badly. I do see him using the back channels to find out just how soft the Commissioner's position is and what he may be able to exploit. By keeping the discussions at arms length, they can keep (some of) the emotion out of it.

tigerjohn said:

One possibility:

Roger Goodell says he reviewed the Patriots response and received additional information from JM, JJ, and Brady via the appeals process. Based on this information, he cannot reach the conclusion that it is more likely than not that the Patriots deliberately tampered with the footballs. Ted Wells and Troy Vincent did not have all of the information when they wrote their report and handed down the initial penalties. Reduces penalty to 500k fine and 4th round draft pick (in line with Cleveland texting and Atlanta music penalties) for a) lack of institutional control with respect to footballs (bathroom visit) and b) lack of initial cooperation with investigation.

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I like your thinking. This would be a clever way for both sides to save face. But unfortunately I don't see it happening. I hope I'm wrong, but the NFL seems to have committed pretty hard to a harsh punishment for Brady and the Patriots, probably at least partly in response to media and fan pressure. That media and fan pressure won't go away just because Brady lets Goodell take a peak at his iPhone. I imagine that right now the NFL is just trying to find some punishment that balances between drawing a full pound of flesh from the Patriots for the national fans and media members who are out for blood and don't really care about the facts of the case, and avoiding a prolonged legal battle with the Patriots and Brady. Kind of pathetic really. The NFL clearly does not care at all about actual justice and never has.

ausbacker said:

Things I want:

1. Brady's suspension overturned.
2. The fine tabled against the Patriots dismissed.
3. The return of the Patriots draft picks.
4. A full and unreserved apology from Roger Goodell.
5. An independent investigation into the sting operation.
6. Roger Goodell being removed from office.

Missed anything?

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Nice Aus! What a victory it would be to get it all back (and give hope that justice/what's right can prevail). But, as I am sure that was as much of a wishlist as anything, it is unlikely it is all going to be repealed. So while I understand how most everyone here feels, the Patriots/Kraft at some point have to be or will be pragmatic. Pragmatism says: (i) Goodell is not going to fully backdown. (ii) there appears to be a lot of contractual wording that says Goodell is within his right to almost arbitrarily levy the punishment against the Patriots. (iii) For the team to get all picks back and the fine erased, it means a judge will have to order it. Isn't it almost unprecedented for a judge to do something like that (which means chances of it happening are at best murky)?
I think any deal that (A) get's the #1 pick back and (B) makes it clear that the Patriots completely maintain their innocence, I think it is a deal that needs to be seriously considered. There just is so little chance we get it all back that it isn't unwise to salvage what we can get back (and that #1 has to be the main priority).

But I don't see any deal happening unless Kraft and Brady get together and work the compromise together. Since I don't see that happening (Brady should rightly fight this to the death) the league is potentially open to a significant PR hit on two separate fronts at two different times. First, since the league perched themselves so high on a moral pedestal, backing down to the Patriots (giving back the first round pick) would cause them to take a major hit. Second, after the hit and the issue with the Patriots behind them, they remain exposed to another major hit later on if/when Brady's legal team wins the day. With Brady seemingly having avenues open to him that a team does not, the league is exposed to a judge/authority proclaiming the evidence does not support conviction and the league acted badly.
IMHO the league knows the real score and know their public words and stances are at least a partial facade. They know what they have brutally smeared a man and a team based upon very very shaky ground. Ultimately it just doesn't make sense for the league to compromise. Their best chance at not taking a major PR hit on either front is to fight the Patriots and Kraft for the duration, and let a judge/legal authority cause the PR hit (instead of ding it to themselves on two separate fronts).

JarOfMayo51 said:

And are you prepared as a fan to watch this play out and have Patriots are Cheaters on ESPN, NFLN and every other sports radio channel every single day for the next 9+ months? Because that is what would happen if it went to court.. it would be 24/7 news coverage of it, with every media whore there is getting their 5 seconds of fame by ****ting all over Brady and the Pats..

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You can either ignore it or watch the league continue to dig its own grave.

Bruins29 said:

These are the things that can make a difference. Goodell gone shifts the blame to him and a real investigation into a sting - or acknowledgement there was one going on could help.

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I tell you what, in the unlikely event Goodell bites the bullet and decides the evidence does not support a "conviction", there are going to be one or two high up league officials without a chair when the music stops.
How should a high up league official who was involved with this from day 1 know that they are going to be a scapegoat? If that person hears that Goodell has reversed his decision, then asks himself/herself "I wonder who is going to be the scapegoat". That's a sure sign it is you.

If anyone is taking wagers on whether Goodell will do an about face, I have a house, a car and an IRA I would like ti immediately place on 'he doesn't'.

TheBostonStraggler said:

Nice Aus! What a victory it would be to get it all back (and give hope that justice/what's right can prevail). But, as I am sure that was as much of a wishlist as anything, it is unlikely it is all going to be repealed. So while I understand how most everyone here feels, the Patriots/Kraft at some point have to be or will be pragmatic. Pragmatism says: (i) Goodell is not going to fully backdown. (ii) there appears to be a lot of contractual wording that says Goodell is within his right to almost arbitrarily levy the punishment against the Patriots. (iii) For the team to get all picks back and the fine erased, it means a judge will have to order it. Isn't it almost unprecedented for a judge to do something like that (which means chances of it happening are at best murky)?
I think any deal that (A) get's the #1 pick back and (B) makes it clear that the Patriots completely maintain their innocence, I think it is a deal that needs to be seriously considered. There just is so little chance we get it all back that it isn't unwise to salvage what we can get back (and that #1 has to be the main priority).

But I don't see any deal happening unless Kraft and Brady get together and work the compromise together. Since I don't see that happening (Brady should rightly fight this to the death) the league is potentially open to a significant PR hit on two separate fronts at two different times. First, since the league perched themselves so high on a moral pedestal, backing down to the Patriots (giving back the first round pick) would cause them to take a major hit. Second, after the hit and the issue with the Patriots behind them, they remain exposed to another major hit later on if/when Brady's legal team wins the day. With Brady seemingly having avenues open to him that a team does not, the league is exposed to a judge/authority proclaiming the evidence does not support conviction and the league acted badly.
IMHO the league knows the real score and know their public words and stances are at least a partial facade. They know what they have brutally smeared a man and a team based upon very very shaky ground. Ultimately it just doesn't make sense for the league to compromise. Their best chance at not taking a major PR hit on either front is to fight the Patriots and Kraft for the duration, and let a judge/legal authority cause the PR hit (instead of ding it to themselves on two separate fronts).

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There's a clear delineation in my mind as to what I want to happen and what will happen. Realistically, Kraft and Goodell will probably come to some sort of compromise that allows the league to save face.

Rawky77 said:

BINGO we have BINGO. I totally agree with the RICO idea. Even did a little research and hope to post something tomorrow.

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I've read that the Expos tried this against MLB when they were being moved to DC. It stalled the move but MLB eventually prevailed.

Honestly who cares what empty talking heads(ESPN), hack writers, or moron radio hosts call us. As long we get our **** back(Brady suspended zero games, and our first round pick) I couldn't care less what they call us.

I hope they call us cheaters all season, do you know who focused and energized this team will be? Brady will be on an absolute war path. I'm talking 50-0 blow outs. And the colts game? We may witness players actually murdered on the field that game. Because in the end there are no asterisks no matter what loser crybabies want to label us, only scoreboards and if our scoreboard says champions that's something they have no choice but to call us.

Honestly I really want the 1st pick and Tom back. But man I'm not sure it happens even though they proclaim innocence with authority. The NFL may somehow win. I'm pissed I even think that but our odds are low

I could care less what the haters say. I actually get a kick out of it.

Every time I see a dumb ass Bronco or Jet fan say something like "Brady needs to be banned from the league over this, " I just think "Holy **** LOL! This is what Tom had reduced these ****ing losers to LOLOLOLOLOL."

ausbacker said:

There's a clear delineation in my mind as to what I want to happen and what will happen. Realistically, Kraft and Goodell will probably come to some sort of compromise that allows the league to save face.

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Understood. Let me be clear Aus, I don't like it. I don't like a compromise one bit. Yet I am so pessimistic about the Patriots (Brady is a separate issue) can have all punishment rescinded, I would consider it a major victory to get that first round back. It's too valuable to dismiss out of hand.

I think the hidden gem here for any, though unlikely, Patriots' compromise is Brady. If I am Brady I am taking this to any and every court that will hear it. IMHO he has not reason or incentive to compromise. So consider: the Patriots compromise to get their #1 pick back while losing the FAR less valuable #4 as well as the chump change fine (chump change to a billionaire). Then if Brady wins in court and a judge/legal authority says 'this report does not indicate guilt, you are innocent"(in some form), the Patriots by proxy win/get validated from their 'we told you we were innocent' "we always believed our QB" statements. Sadly I suspect it is still not likely to get back the money and #4 pick, however, overall it would be a satisfying outcome (including a clear message to all the owners about the monster they have created at the league offices).

If Goodell had any sense at all he would have ended this farce long ago and fired Kensil and the other creators of the circus. Goodell doesn't have any sense.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The NFL will make the dumbest decision possible because they always make the dumbest decision possible.

Follow that simple rule and you can predict the NFL's offer to Kraft.

What amazes me is how anybody on this forum can actually believe a leak from league sources, like a leak that back channel negotiations are underway. How do you know the NFL is lying? When their lips are moving (or Shefters or Morts or Kings).

TheBostonStraggler said:

Understood. Let me be clear Aus, I don't like it. I don't like a compromise one bit. Yet I am so pessimistic about the Patriots (Brady is a separate issue) can have all punishment rescinded, I would consider it a major victory to get that first round back. It's too valuable to dismiss out of hand.

I think the hidden gem here for any, though unlikely, Patriots' compromise is Brady. If I am Brady I am taking this to any and every court that will hear it. IMHO he has not reason or incentive to compromise. So consider: the Patriots compromise to get their #1 pick back while losing the FAR less valuable #4 as well as the chump change fine (chump change to a billionaire). Then if Brady wins in court and a judge/legal authority says 'this report does not indicate guilt, you are innocent"(in some form), the Patriots by proxy win/get validated from their 'we told you we were innocent' "we always believed our QB" statements. Sadly I suspect it is still not likely to get back the money and #4 pick, however, overall it would be a satisfying outcome (including a clear message to all the owners about the monster they have created at the league offices).

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I concur. Kraft will do what he does; broker a deal. Hopefully J.Kraft has manoeuvred cleverly and in tandem with Brady knowing full well his intentions.

My issue with Deflategate is the fact that the NFL operates a fly by the seat of your pants operation. For a multibillion dollar organisation, that simply isn't good enough. Hopefully pissing off Kraft and the Patriots is a leap forward for the administration and standing of the game.

hwc said:

What amazes me is how anybody on this forum can actually believe a leak from league sources, like a leak that back channel negotiations are underway. How do you know the NFL is lying? When their lips are moving (or Shefters or Morts or Kings).

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It's almost the kind of thing the league or commish would leak so that the owner's meeting tomorrow isn't quite so tense and awkward ....