Robert Kraft talks to Peter King

AndyJohnson said:

Again we disagree.
I don't understand how selecting an investigator makes you accountable that he reaches a good conclusion. Believing it when it is wrong is much worse than challenging it.
Given the Wells report, without the Patriots bringing to light everything that is missing or wrong, accepting the conclusion is not farfetched.

They are having an appeal hearing. Wells has laid out his investigation and Brady (and later Kraft) will lay out theirs. To suggest that Goodell is painted into a corner and cannot find that Wells did a poor job just makes no sense.

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So what are you saying? That Goodell is just as much a victim in all this?

Chiuba E. Obele said:

So what are you saying? That Goodell is just as much a victim in all this?

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Come on, how do you get that from what I wrote???

I am saying that it is wrong to think that Goodell is responsible for Wells work, and unable to judge it to be poor. That is actually the truth, and the Patriots have provided information that refutes the assumptions 'facts' and conclusions. Goodell can very well rule that the Wells report falls short in many areas, and the conclusions are at least a stretch that he does not feel comfortable penalizing the player and organization over.

Goodell's image and legacy will do much worse if he upholds the Wells report and then gets destroyed in court.
Right now, Wells spoke, Goodell accepted it.
If he upholds it, essentailly Wells spoke, the Patriots proved he was wrong,and Goodell accepted it anyway. Then the court will overturn it. Much worse.

AndyJohnson said:

Come on, how do you get that from what I wrote???

I am saying that it is wrong to think that Goodell is responsible for Wells work, and unable to judge it to be poor. That is actually the truth, and the Patriots have provided information that refutes the assumptions 'facts' and conclusions. Goodell can very well rule that the Wells report falls short in many areas, and the conclusions are at least a stretch that he does not feel comfortable penalizing the player and organization over.

Goodell's image and legacy will do much worse if he upholds the Wells report and then gets destroyed in court.
Right now, Wells spoke, Goodell accepted it.
If he upholds it, essentailly Wells spoke, the Patriots proved he was wrong,and Goodell accepted it anyway. Then the court will overturn it. Much worse.

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Okay, thanks for clearing that up

NashuaPats said:

I caught about 10 seconds of Mike and Mike before having to turn it off. I heard Greenberg say something like "Kraft's belief in the ideal gas theory..." I turned it off immediately. There's no believing or not believing in the ideal gas law. It's as real as gravity. These sports writers/analysts seem intent on lowering the IQs of their readers and listeners.

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All this precious "science" is just a bunch of THEORIES. Everyone knows footballs are kept inflated by the breath of Jesus.

AndyJohnson said:

I don't think he had the science when he interviewed Anderson. Without knowing the IGL impact, they look guilty.
My point is that you don't need to include a conspiratorial paranoid Wells and Goodell and the whole league was out to get us in order to show where it went wrong. Wells simply could have jumped to a conclusion and been too arrogant to see that he had to twist all the pieces too far to make it fit.

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What is the difference if they had the IGL when they interviewed Anderson? It wasn't like Exponent was waiting on the other end of a telphone waiting for Wells to ask Anderson which gauge he used to start their experiments. The Exponent study was independent from the interviews.

What the Greenbergs of the world are missing is that it could still be a set-up without meaning that someone was specifically out to get Tom Brady.

-Kensil & Vincent had an unsubstantiated tip from the Colts that the Patriots were doing something wrong.
-Kensil & Vincent and their tipster Grigson thought it would be great to catch the Patriots organization in the act, and assumed that the tip would turn out to be true. Their goal was not to prevent any tampering, but to CATCH the Patriots if it happened, as they thought it would.
-Kensil & Vincent and their tipster Grigson are all dumber than boxes of rocks and thought with perfect confidence that a football at 13 psi at room temperature will be 13 psi at 50 degrees, at 20 degrees, or at zero degrees. That as long as you don't take air out, the pressure would be the same. Incredibly, even the football manufacturers thought this too!
-Laughably, the dumber than a box of rock belief fully extended to everyone involved in the sting, every media member who rushed to judgement, and 99% of fans, and to Goodell, maybe even to thus day.
-Kensil & Vincent saw lower pressures, at halftime, than they expected to see. I think that they thought that they were in the right to aggressively push forward. Paranoia, jealousy, ignorance, and incompetence reinforced each other.
-It took months for basic concept of the ideal gas law to sink in for ANYONE in the media. Peter King paid some small attention to it in January, sure, but the scientific aspects were muddied by the persistent belief in the FALSE "11 out of 12 footballs were 2 psi low" leak.

If the reasons for the sting operation progressing into a full-fledged headline scandal were put into a pie chart, it would break down about lie this, IMO.

the sparks:
Paranoia about the Patriots:10%
Jealously/hatred of the Patriots: 10%

the fuel:
sheer ignorance coupled with incompetence and lies: 80%

AndyJohnson said:

Again we disagree.
I don't understand how selecting an investigator makes you accountable that he reaches a good conclusion. Believing it when it is wrong is much worse than challenging it.
Given the Wells report, without the Patriots bringing to light everything that is missing or wrong, accepting the conclusion is not farfetched.

They are having an appeal hearing. Wells has laid out his investigation and Brady (and later Kraft) will lay out theirs. To suggest that Goodell is painted into a corner and cannot find that Wells did a poor job just makes no sense.

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At best, Goodell could come out looking incompetent for paying an "independent" investigator $5 million, allow him to spend 4 months to write a biased report with bad evidence, and allow one of his most successful franchises and best players to be smeared through the mud because he didn't look at the Wells report carefully before he released it and issued punishment. The Wells report was discredited (at least in part) within days of it being released. So at best, he can hope that he just looks at a complete boob in all this.

Goodell has hitched his wagon to the Wells report. Any chance of him even remotely challenging the information in it has long gone. He has vouched for the report and Wells. The League hosted that Wells conference call attacking the Pats, Brady, and Don Yee (Jeff Pash was the moderator). Goodell is 100% behind the Wells report and that is why he is stacking the decks against Brady to make sure he doesn't win his appeal.

And Wells is 100% Goodell's responsibility. In any company, if you are in charge to hire an outside consultant and they fail, the responsibility of their failure falls on you.

seven said:

I had the pleasure of being a kid at the Orr Walton Hockey camp. Orr was the same humble first class gentleman that we all know. (He was all of about 23) Exactly the same guy, always. There was no front, no acting this way or that, it is simply who he is.

I have come to appreciate and rank Brady with Orr in this regard. Beyond the probable best that has ever been heroics in battle, I have listened to the man, read the books, followed very closely, enough to believe he is the real deal. There are no "slips" because he simply is who he is. thousands of public appearances. Not one "slip". Because that is who he is.

Well,there was that one dig after a Ravens game, I seem to remember....
************
Been very blessed to have those two play for "my" teams. Thanks.

It is inspiring and uplifting to see Mr Kraft going to the wall for him.
Based on what Mr Kraft knows about the man, he has stepped into a role he never wanted, always avoided.
All based on Tom's word. Based on the word of the same man i have come to know, vicariously.

This reaffirms my experience, confirms what I have come to believe.

There has been much chatter about this, as we all felt the same way, wanted to see this.
We are frustrated to see the man we know treated so shabbily.

So mark this for me as a high point, old fashioned honor and loyalty between two gentleman.
One's word, enough for the other.

That is enough for me, too. Stand and fight against the bullies, the lies.

I love this team. Thanks Mr Kraft.

Quite the epic off season, eh?

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While I think Brady "fakes" the courtesy and humility, I don't care. First, he understands their importance, or he wouldn't fake them so well. Second, if he acts differently behind the scenes, it must be rare enough for stories not to get out.

Exception: He's a ranting ass* when competitive juices kick in. And I'm OK with that.

Rob0729 said:

What is the difference if they had the IGL when they interviewed Anderson? It wasn't like Exponent was waiting on the other end of a telphone waiting for Wells to ask Anderson which gauge he used to start their experiments. The Exponent study was independent from the interviews.

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Exactly my point.

Rob0729 said:

Goodell has hitched his wagon to the Wells report. Any chance of him even remotely challenging the information in it has long gone. He has vouched for the report and Wells. The League hosted that Wells conference call attacking the Pats, Brady, and Don Yee (Jeff Pash was the moderator). Goodell is 100% behind the Wells report and that is why he is stacking the decks against Brady to make sure he doesn't win his appeal.

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And the owners will now try to figure out if they can appease Kraft while not throwing Goodell/Wells under the bus.

AndyJohnson said:

By the way, Florio presented in a way that leaves the conspiracy theory and Patriot hate out, and says Wells honestly decided early on that the Patriots were guilty and went about arranging the evidence to support his certainty, but he was wrong mostly because he didn't understand that science.

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Besides Florio's argument -- people have multiple motivations. McNally had multiple motivations for picking the nickname "Deflator". Brady had multiple motivations for talking on the phone with Jastremski rather than waiting to see him face-to-face. And Wells had multiple motivations for setting his integrity aside.

Mack Herron said:

And the owners will now try to figure out if they can appease Kraft while not throwing Goodell/Wells under the bus.

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You are hoping that. There may be enough owners who feel that Kraft just needs to suck it up and take his punishment whether he deserves it or not.

One thing that will never happen is any owner (other than Kraft) or Goodell questioning anything from the Wells report publicly.

NashuaPats said:

I caught about 10 seconds of Mike and Mike before having to turn it off. I heard Greenberg say something like "Kraft's belief in the ideal gas theory..." I turned it off immediately. There's no believing or not believing in the ideal gas law. It's as real as gravity. These sports writers/analysts seem intent on lowering the IQs of their readers and listeners.

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In fairness -- while the Ideal Gas Law is high school level science, high school does NOT teach us how quickly a football would reach Ideal Gas Law equilibrium.

Still -- I LIKEed your post.

Why did the NFL leak the big lie?

Why did the NFL remain silent, while the lie spread?

****************
The NFL remains silent, hiding the actual numbers.
The lie spreads.
NFL hides the actual numbers both from the Public, and the Pats.

They hide the numbers that in the worst case scenario show
the Pats balls average .3 PSI low.
************

Jet fan Mike is in a panic, because he knows the thing is coming apart.
Golic, Lupica, none of the critics actually understand the IGL.
Lupica yesterday was comical when a caller mentioned it.
It is over his head, so he comes back with, oh well yeah we all know they are cheaters.

This is not surprising. Most sports guys, writers included were not in the Study Group.
They were watching the game, or sneaking off to watch a game.
None of em were the best or brightest. They chose the path that lead to
"I get paid to go watch a game".

I have thought about starting a thread about this a number of times but didn't want to add to the collection. This interview with King goes to the heart of why I don't believe the Patios did anything wrong and should fight to the death on this issue. When Spygate occurred Kraft immediately asked Belichick If the Patriots had violated the league rule on camera placement and he acknowledged they had and Kraft admonished him, acknowledged to the league they had done so and accepted the absurd punishment without a word of dissent. In this case Kraft and Belichick clearly asked Brady if he had asked the equipment manager and Ballboy to tamper with footballs and Brady made it clear he had not so both Belichick and Kraft went on record that their investigation showed no wrongdoing. Had Brady acknowledged to either that he had asked the equipment manager or Ballboy to tamper with game balls after the ref checked them Kraft would have immediately come out to accept penalties against the franchise no matter how draconian, but instead Kraft doubled down and said he backed Brady 100%, which clearly indicates that Brady is continuing to maintain his innocence to Kraft and Belichick, which to me is the most important aspect of this, because to believe Brady has engaged in wrongdoing would be to believe that he has been steadfastly lying to Kraft and Belichick and I simply do not believe that Brady would lie to either let alone both of them for months and months.

I'm really happy to hear Kraft is fighting back and I hope he never backs down and fights this as far as he possibly can. No more eating crap from a league office and commissioner who have no ethics and no integrity, and hopefully this will be their downfall.

Rob0729 said:

You are hoping that. There may be enough owners who feel that Kraft just needs to suck it up and take his punishment whether he deserves it or not.

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It's not an either-or. The other owners just want to end the Goodell-Kraft public fight, and they don't care much which one compromises more.

The last time I bought a residence, my real estate broker yelled at her client to take a lower price than he was holding out for. (She told me that story and I believed her. She just wanted a deal to happen, because that was what was beneficial to her.)

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

-Kensil & Vincent and their tipster Grigson are all dumber than boxes of rocks and thought with perfect confidence that a football at 13 psi at room temperature will be 13 psi at 50 degrees, at 20 degrees, or at zero degrees. That as long as you don't take air out, the pressure would be the same. Incredibly, even the football manufacturers thought this too!

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This, for me, is probably the most painful thing to get my head around. Though I had a fair interest in science, it was never my focus growing up, yet I honestly cannot recall ever having known of air pressure without also knowing the influence of environmental factors on it. I don't remember when I learned this, or what I thought of it at that age, but the two just seemed to go together so naturally I don't think it ever occurred to me to believe otherwise.

Placing tongue halfway in cheek, can I go on living knowing that such levels of ignorance and/or stupidity (in this and other matters) are so deeply ingrained and widespread?

Fencer said:

Brady had multiple motivations for talking on the phone with Jastremski rather than waiting to see him face-to-face.

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More than likely, Brady's motivation for talking to Jastremski on the phone is that he was on I-95 driving that sweet Audi of his from downtown Boston to Foxboro the morning after a playoff game.

Rob0729 said:

You are hoping that. There may be enough owners who feel that Kraft just needs to suck it up and take his punishment whether he deserves it or not.

One thing that will never happen is any owner (other than Kraft) or Goodell questioning anything from the Wells report publicly.

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If any owners feel that Kraft should just accept the punishment whether he deserves it or not, maybe they can agree to show solidarity and forfeit their own 1st and 4th round picks as well.

Yeah they are not guilty either, but it is real easy to advise biting the bullet when it is not your ox being gored.

Rob0729 said:

At best, Goodell could come out looking incompetent for paying an "independent" investigator $5 million, allow him to spend 4 months to write a biased report with bad evidence, and allow one of his most successful franchises and best players to be smeared through the mud because he didn't look at the Wells report carefully before he released it and issued punishment. The Wells report was discredited (at least in part) within days of it being released. So at best, he can hope that he just looks at a complete boob in all this.

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It was not discredited until the Patriots introduced contradictory and additional data. Patriot fans would have believed it was a crock if Brady signed the bottom saying I did it. The facts came out last week.
Goodell actually looks wise to take a step back and say that he relied on the Wells report to levy his punishment but the Patriots brought information to light that brings some of the investigation, evidence and conclusion into question.
I think you are blinded by the assumption that Goodell is complicit in the findings of the Wells report, or directed him to find that way. Of course, if Goodell is acted underhandedly, that changes everything, but we can't really assume that.
In Goodell's place, what would you do, after trusting Wells to do a quality and thorough report, then having it publicly shown that he did not? You are suggesting you would double down on it because admitting it was wrong looks bad.

Goodell has hitched his wagon to the Wells report.

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Not yet he hasn't. He did when it purportedly was accurate and had all the evidence in it.
He hitched his wagon to Wells and his conclusion. He has NOT hitched his wagon to dismissing the ripping to shreds of the report.

Any chance of him even remotely challenging the information in it has long gone.

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Of course its not. He has the perfect chance, he can cite the contradictory and new evidence introduced by the Patriots.

He has vouched for the report and Wells.

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No. He hired Wells and accepted the conclusions of his report. You are suggesting that anyone who hires someone who does a bad job cannot admit that once it is discovered.

The League hosted that Wells conference call attacking the Pats, Brady, and Don Yee (Jeff Pash was the moderator). Goodell is 100% behind the Wells report and that is why he is stacking the decks against Brady to make sure he doesn't win his appeal.

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That is speculation that will be determined.

There are 2 different ways Goodell can go with this. Yours is not 'the only thing he can do' just because you think it.
Soon we will know the answer.