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Reiss followup thoughts on pats rebuttal


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I wasn't aware that the league didn't take possession of the footballs after the game. The Patriots sure sound like they were cooperating if they sent them to the league.

I understand that they really weren't valuable as evidence at that point, but the league was incredibly sloppy in how they handled this:

Before the game, let McNally carry the balls to the field alone.
Before the start of the second half, let McNally carry the balls to the field alone.
After the game, leave the balls in Gillette Stadium.

Just based on those three facts alone, I would be very suspicious of any results a league-sponsored investigation turned up.
 
The legal concept is spoliation, as in you can't "spoil" the evidence. If you don't have the evidence, the normal procedure is to send a preservation letter to the party possessing the evidence. In this situation, the NFL should have retained the balls, all of them.
As in telling the NFL that they will call Goodell and Vincent as witnesses about certain events, so don't go deleting your emails now........
 
Just bring them up to locker room temperature and let themm dry and they could have seen them come back to 12.5 psi. Ice cream is not the best analogy.
Or if they used the back up balls they would have seen them drop below 12.5 after being out on the field.
 
2 doesnt seem relevant. The only thing relevant was the PSI before and during the games. The issue is how that was measured before and during the game.

4. is consistent with having nothing to hide but also consistent with being an idiot

In any investigation I've ever read about, the evidence is always kept in the control of the investigating party.

But, that being said, the NFL Senior personnel fubared so much else that day, it's not surprising.
 
The league should have kept the "questionable" footballs locked up . Who knew that the investigation would go on for four months. When I watch a baseball game, the umpire may throw away a ball and introduce a new one. No investigation. No 240 page report.
 
I read the other day that simmons was let go by bspn. They didn't tell him, he found out through social media.
I kind of think (based on his recent actions) that it was more a case of espn being let go by Simmons ,
 
In any investigation I've ever read about, the evidence is always kept in the control of the investigating party.

But, that being said, the NFL Senior personnel fubared so much else that day, it's not surprising.

The relevant evidence is not the balls themselves but the PSI readings taken at halftime, so i dont see the point of the NFL taking them after the game. Of all the reasons to be critical of the NFL, this one is not even worth mentioning.
 
What would be the point of taking possession of the balls when the PSI constantly changes due to temperature differences? The Weather would destroy the real evidence.

It would be like taking a cone of Ice Cream on a hot day for evidence in a crime. You will only have the cone left as the Ice Cream has melted.

You are right that they aren't as important in this case but you can still examine them for quality, marks, etc.
 
its my opinion Reiss lost a lot of his creativity with joining that network.

I wonder if Simmons is leaving for that reason? Funny they suspended him for calling Goodell a liar. What does that tell you about ESPN? You can have an opinion of Goodell if your on a message board or blog but you can't have an opinion if your network is in a big money contract with the NFL?

Simmons was fired after going on the Dan Patrick show (who skewers his former employers at ESPN routinely) and saying that Goodell lacked “testicular fortitude". That was the straw that broke the camel's back.

I like Bill Simmons. Whenever he actually devotes time to it, his writing can be absolutely sublime. The Grantland website was an amazing achievement that routinely has extremely good writing on it. His response to E-Mails from fans can be very entertaining, and his podcasts can occasionally be entertaining (although I miss the days when he would have Lombardi and Steve Kerr on them).

However, I thought he had spread himself too thin. His writing became less frequent and often of much lower quality. He was OK on TV, but nothing special (in contrast to his writing). Obviously it drove him crazy to be working with all of the idiots at ESPN.

I hope this will be a new opportunity for him. He has been very innovative in the past with new media (his early podcasts, Grantland, etc.), I'm hoping he emerges able to devote more time to his writing and new media.
 
In Reiss' weekly column about thoughts on Pats/NFL, he is thinking that the Wells Report Context web site is the final step and doubts Kraft will sue the league. I hope Kraft keeps fighting on.
 
BSPN's Dan Le ****** posted a column today where he says the following...

So now you have a commissioner who lacks credibility hearing the appeal of a champion organization that lacks credibility. The league's independent investigator wrote 243 pages worth of incrimination to protect the integrity of its game, and the Patriots filed a lawyerly 19,600-word rebuttal to protect their integrity, and none of us still really understand empirically how much of an advantage was actually gained by breaking a random rule none of us knew was a rule. And the independent investigator then had to do a conference call to protect his independence and his 243 pages because nobody trusts anybody in this transaction. It's like watching the ending of "The Departed."​

The reference to The Departed made me chuckle. Let's hope Brady and Kraft got for head shots from now on.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...credibility-integrity-issues-wake-deflategate
 
2 doesnt seem relevant. The only thing relevant was the PSI before and during the games. The issue is how that was measured before and during the game.

Not so. Post-game air pressure readings might have helped exonerate the Patriots. They also would have highlighted the fact that the NFL, through its ignorance of ideal gas law, imposed an unfair competitive disadvantage on Brady and, by extension, the Patriots by forcing Brady to play with overly inflated footballs during the second half of the AFC championship game.

It’s a bit complicated, but I think this issue is important. The Exponent Report says that from a pre-game starting point of 12.5 PSI ideal gas law would predict—assuming Exponent’s game-time environmental assumptions are correct—that the air pressure in the Patriots’ footballs should have measured between 11.32 and 11.52 PSI at the end of the first half, when the temperature was 48F. The higher pressure figure assumes a starting temperature in the Referees shower area of 67F, while the lower pressure number assumes a starting temperature of 71F. For the sake of simplicity, let’s split the difference and assume that according to Exponent the Patriots’ footballs should have had an average air pressure of 11.42 PSI at the end of the first half.

After the Patriots’ footballs were tested at half-time and found to be inadequately inflated, senior officiating supervisor Alberto Riveron instructed the officials to inflate the Patriots’ footballs to 13.0 PSI. Ideal gas law would predict that the air pressure in the footballs would rise after being warmed up in the Referees locker room at half-time. In keeping with this law, Exponent’s experiment indicates that the average air pressure of the Patriots’ wet footballs should have increased by approximately 0.3 PSI and their dry footballs should have increased by approximately 0.5 PSI during the first 8 minutes they were in the Referees room. Again, for the sake of simplicity, let’s assume that Exponent is saying that, on average, the air pressure in the Patriots’ footballs should have risen by 0.4 PSI during the first 8 minutes they were in the Referees room.

With this information we can determine that (1) if Exponent’s environmental assumptions are correct and (2) if the Patriots’ footballs were, on average, inflated 8 minutes after being brought into the Referees locker room at half-time, the air inside the Patriots’ footballs should have had an average temperature of approximately 58.15F when they were inflated to 13.0 PSI. And with this information, we can determine what the internal air pressure of the footballs should be at other temperatures.

The Exponent Report says that the NFL checked the air pressure of the Patriots’ and Colts’ footballs “shortly” after the game, but, somewhat suspiciously, does not say what those readings were. If by “shortly” it means a few minutes after the game, then one would expect the air pressure in the Patriots footballs to be around or slightly below 13.0 psi. However, if they had allowed the footballs to dry out and warm up in the Referees room for a couple of hours to get the Patriots’ footballs as near as possible to their pre-game state and then taken air pressure readings, the readings might have been very revealing. If Exponent’s environmental assumptions are correct or inaccurately slanted in favor of the Patriots and the assumption about the timing of the half-time testing made above are correct, one would expect that the average air pressure of the footballs to be close to or below 13.83 PSI at 72.5F (the average temperature of the Referees locker room). If, on the other hand, Exponent’s environmental assumptions were inaccurately slanted against the Patriots, then one would expect, given the above timing assumption, that the average air pressure in the footballs would be greater than this. Of course, one can alter the assumption about when the footballs were inflated at half-time and see if the post-game air pressure falls above or below the level one would expect under Exponent’s environmental assumptions.

Since the Colts’ footballs were not touched, it also would have been interesting to see what the average air pressure in them were after their footballs warmed up under the same conditions as the Patriots’ footballs. If the post-game air pressure in their footballs were greater than 13.0 PSI, this would suggest that the air in their footballs was slightly cooler than the air in the Patriots’ footballs when they were tested pre-game. This would account for why the Colts’ footballs did not lose as much air pressure during the game as the Patriots’.

By not taking possession of the footballs and testing them later, the NFL allowed these potentially extremely valuable pieces of information to disappear.
 
Or if they used the back up balls they would have seen them drop below 12.5 after being out on the field.


they would not have understood and would have accused McNally of somehow finding a way to deflate them also

truly moronic, Kensil & Vincent

Dumber and dumberer
 
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