Media mocking of the "the deflater" losing weight

And I think the "espn" quote being interpreted as a threat to expose deflating footballs illegally is just as big a stretch as the deflator=weight loss thing... maybe even more of one.

All of this reads like a bunch of references to inside jokes that wouldn't make sense unless you had been hanging out with these guys a long time and were in on the conversation..

This is so blown out of proportion. They are football guys, working for an NFL football team, using Football references related to their job. BFD.

Back when I wasn't self employed and worked for a company, I used to say all kinds of messed up and private things to my friends at work, which anyone who wasn't part of the conversations would think we were going to be up to something criminal to bring down the company. I was in IT and had access to all kinds of personal information, which we joked about using for nefarious purposes. Of course we were never going to do it, we never did do it, it was just a bunch of guys blowing off steam and joking around.

Context is everything.

letekro said:

I think the most damning is the "I've got a big needle for you this week.....the only thing deflating on Sun will be TB's passer rating" It is just one piece of evidence, but it is awfully hard to interpret any other way.

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I agree, if taken as a singular piece of evidence from which one might draw a conclusion. But let me give you another perspective:

1) TB is a perfectionist...a pro's pro...and wants his footballs to consistently meet his specifications (i.e. 12.5 psi to keep the ball on the softer side).
2) During the 2014 season, 4 of the first 6 games were played at the opposing team's stadium, meaning that TB had little or no control over the psi of those balls (after inspection). Given his sub-par play during those games (which he later turned around), I can see where the focus on ball characteristics would be ever-more amplified in his mind.
3) I'm sure he reminded Jastremski (in no uncertain terms) to ensure his footballs were maintained at his desired psi level, who in turn made it clear to "Bird" (also, in no uncertain terms). Under such pressure, I can see how those text conversations could occur.
4) The 7th game of the season (Jets game) was a home game, where ostensibly we had more control of the footballs. Yet after the game, they measured at least one ball at 16 psi!! I'm guessing TB becomes quite upset at that point.
5) At the next home game (?) TB sent Bird in with a copy of the NFL rule pertaining to psi levels.
6) Fast forward to the AFCCG, where we now know that all balls were found to be within 0.1 psi of what Ideal Gas Law would suggest.
Bottom line: has anyone even contemplated that Brady may very well have directed JJ and JM to ensure the balls are at 12.5 psi ("whatever it takes")...but that JM was unwilling to take any undue risk of losing his job (hence the balloon comments)? Just because some text messages were exchanged doesn't mean any illegal deflation was ever carried out...even if it had been considered. It also doesn't make any sense why a team would go to all that trouble to gain a 0.1 psi "improvement" beyond the 12.5 psi level.

It's an ambiguous series of text. The only one's who really know what they mean are JJ and JM. But even as a Patriot fan, there is no way that I read the texts and "I'm not going to ESPN...Yet" and not think something negative is going on. It sounds too much like wanting a reward for not going to the (cops, mom, dad, boss, etc). If I was a Patriot fan and this happened to another team, I would be all over this statement as a sign of guilt. Since there is no way of knowing what the texts mean, we look to the veracity of JJ and JM statements of what they do mean. So when they say "Deflator" is a term for weight loss, the anti patriots roll their eyes and think it's a lie.

There is no hard evidence and all the evidence is circumstantial. Is our version of the truth more believable or as believable then their version. That is why you need an impartial judge. There is no way Goodell can be impartial.

Whoever was responsible for even attempting that lame explanation of the deflator texts should be fired. Should have just left it alone.

Jackson 2 said:

Whoever was responsible for even attempting that lame explanation of the deflator texts should be fired. Should have just left it alone.

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"Leave alone" the one thing that's been talked about the most? No.

And who was responsible was presumably the guys who sent the texts and explained them.

aluminum seats said:

"Leave alone" the one thing that's been talked about the most? No.

And who was responsible was presumably the guys who sent the texts and explained them.

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The "guys who sent the texts and explained them" were not part of the legal team that composed the Wells Report in Context rebuttal. If McNally and Jastremski were on that team, we're in more trouble than anyone could have possibly imagined.. The rebuttal was a great document which had its great points largely ignored due to an idiotic explanation of the text messages. It was embarrassing.

Jackson 2 said:

The "guys who sent the texts and explained them" were not part of the legal team that composed the Wells Report in Context rebuttal. If McNally and Jastremski were on that team, we're in more trouble than anyone could have possibly imagined.. The rebuttal was a great document which had its great points largely ignored due to an idiotic explanation of the text messages. It was embarrassing.

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As 'embarrassing' as it might come across to the media, I don't see how that impacts the legal proceedings. Public opinion does not, and cannot, influence how these cases play out in Federal court.

Jackson 2 said:

The "guys who sent the texts and explained them" were not part of the legal team that composed the Wells Report in Context rebuttal. If McNally and Jastremski were on that team, we're in more trouble than anyone could have possibly imagined.. The rebuttal was a great document which had its great points largely ignored due to an idiotic explanation of the text messages. It was embarrassing.

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I completely agree. The rebuttal had the all the information in it to be a grand slam home run but because of that explanation, and the serious oversight in not acknowledging the connection (albeit indirect) between the Kraft group and the Nobel Prize Chemist's company, it was a complete misfire.

Chiuba E. Obele said:

As 'embarrassing' as it might come across to the media, I don't see how that impacts the legal proceedings. Public opinion does not, and cannot, influence how these cases play out in Federal court.

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I wasn't suggesting it would. My point was simply that the deflator/dieter explanation was one a kindergartner would, justifiably, laugh at.

Jackson 2 said:

I wasn't suggesting it would. My point was simply that the deflator/dieter explanation was one a kindergartner would, justifiably, laugh at.

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Well unfortunately, the two guys hired to handle the footballs possessed a sense of humor akin to that of kindergartners

Canuck said:

It's an ambiguous series of text. The only one's who really know what they mean are JJ and JM. But even as a Patriot fan, there is no way that I read the texts and "I'm not going to ESPN...Yet" and not think something negative is going on. It sounds too much like wanting a reward for not going to the (cops, mom, dad, boss, etc). If I was a Patriot fan and this happened to another team, I would be all over this statement as a sign of guilt. Since there is no way of knowing what the texts mean, we look to the veracity of JJ and JM statements of what they do mean. So when they say "Deflator" is a term for weight loss, the anti patriots roll their eyes and think it's a lie.

There is no hard evidence and all the evidence is circumstantial. Is our version of the truth more believable or as believable then their version. That is why you need an impartial judge. There is no way Goodell can be impartial.

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Honestly, when I read the report and finished the initial summary, I thought they were guilty. But as I got into the meat of the report, I changed my mind. And after getting through the Exponent's report, I was convinced they were innocent. Then I read through it again and it is so obvious that Wells was trying to make them look guilty.

Wells indicated they were running this scheme since the start of the season as per the May Deflator text. But there is evidence that contradicts that. Jastremski was filling the balls to 12.75-12.85 through the October Jets game. After the game, he expressed surprise that the balls did not measure at about 13. Both of these points completely contradict that they were already running the scheme. After that game, Jastremski texted that Brady wants them to be 12.5 (again contradicting the scheme). He also said Brady wants them to bring the rule book to the refs. It defies logic that he would advise them to do that and then sneak away woth the balls and tamper with them.

As you said, it is impossible to know what texts mean. And apparently these guys had hundreds of texts with weird over the top jokes and terminology. It would be easy to find something that could be interpreted as suspicous when searching for it. And we don't get to see the hundreds of other texts that puts things into a better perspective. And if that is all Wells found despite how careless they were, that is odd.

Then of course the science contradicts they were tampering. The Exponent report did its best through a lot of flawed logic to come up with at worst 0.4 psi. It does not make any sense to have a clownish part time employee illegaly taking out 0.4 psi considering the many risks and insignificant advantage. It makes no sense to have a fool like Burt or Bird execute something like that nevermind that he could hold this information over you forever.

So is our version more believable than their version? Yes, by a lot. The problem is there are haters and the fact that most people, including the media, have not meticulously read the report and applied logic.

Glad there's finally a thread where people are being objective, or at least trying to be. The explanations for some of these texts were flat out dumb and really took away from what was an otherwise great rebuttal. The way a lot of people here jumped all over those explanations in that big thread about the rebuttal was pretty embarrassing, I wanted to say something but knew I would get jumped. This thread seems a little safer for me.

Let's face it, if you ask 100 completely neutral people about the "deflator" and "ESPN" texts, the vast majority will say Wells' theory is reasonable and the Patriots' story is a joke. I've seen people say "Google weight loss and deflate" as a way to prove that the weight loss theory is legit. Come on now.

The texts are absolutely the strongest part of the Wells Report, probably the only strong part, and the rebuttal just gave it more strength.

That's not to say I think it proves the Patriots did anything nefarious, but I also don't think it's as black and white as NFL bad vs Patriots good. We don't know the whole story, and we probably will never know.

Let the media and public laugh at the deflator remark. It doesn't matter. the important thing is what the court thinks.

ChesBay said:

I agree, if taken as a singular piece of evidence from which one might draw a conclusion. But let me give you another perspective:

1) TB is a perfectionist...a pro's pro...and wants his footballs to consistently meet his specifications (i.e. 12.5 psi to keep the ball on the softer side).
2) During the 2014 season, 4 of the first 6 games were played at the opposing team's stadium, meaning that TB had little or no control over the psi of those balls (after inspection). Given his sub-par play during those games (which he later turned around), I can see where the focus on ball characteristics would be ever-more amplified in his mind.
3) I'm sure he reminded Jastremski (in no uncertain terms) to ensure his footballs were maintained at his desired psi level, who in turn made it clear to "Bird" (also, in no uncertain terms). Under such pressure, I can see how those text conversations could occur.
4) The 7th game of the season (Jets game) was a home game, where ostensibly we had more control of the footballs. Yet after the game, they measured at least one ball at 16 psi!! I'm guessing TB becomes quite upset at that point.
5) At the next home game (?) TB sent Bird in with a copy of the NFL rule pertaining to psi levels.
6) Fast forward to the AFCCG, where we now know that all balls were found to be within 0.1 psi of what Ideal Gas Law would suggest.
Bottom line: has anyone even contemplated that Brady may very well have directed JJ and JM to ensure the balls are at 12.5 psi ("whatever it takes")...but that JM was unwilling to take any undue risk of losing his job (hence the balloon comments)? Just because some text messages were exchanged doesn't mean any illegal deflation was ever carried out...even if it had been considered. It also doesn't make any sense why a team would go to all that trouble to gain a 0.1 psi "improvement" beyond the 12.5 psi level.

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This is a fine theory. Unfortunately, its not what JM and JJ told investigators

I wish that Mel Kiper Jr. would just walk in front of a bus.

Chiuba E. Obele said:

As 'embarrassing' as it might come across to the media, I don't see how that impacts the legal proceedings. Public opinion does not, and cannot, influence how these cases play out in Federal court.

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There are no guarantees that the courts will ultimately grant any kind of relief. Plus the court of public opinion and the media narrative still matters to most people, including myself.

I trust (and sure hope) that the attorneys who wrote this are smart and that the "deflator" explanation was included purposefully, either because they know that these two guys are going to confirm that that was what the nickname was for in future testimony, or they know that it ultimately won't matter. If not, that was major F up

OK guys, I said in another thread that my post there was going to be my one and only post on the subject, but I can't help myself. Please tell me why Kraft suspended JJ and JM if he truly thought they did nothing wrong? Did he think that would placate the critics and the issue would be dropped? Wouldn't that make him despicable for throwing two innocent people under the bus?

Jackson 2 said:

The "guys who sent the texts and explained them" were not part of the legal team that composed the Wells Report in Context rebuttal. If McNally and Jastremski were on that team, we're in more trouble than anyone could have possibly imagined.. The rebuttal was a great document which had its great points largely ignored due to an idiotic explanation of the text messages. It was embarrassing.

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It's not a question of them being on the legal team, obviously.

The point is if the explanation is the truth, it had to be included. You obviously don't think it's the truth, or that it is the truth, but that they should have lied and made up another story. I disagree.

Street Scum said:

OK guys, I said in another thread that my post there was going to be my one and only post on the subject, but I can't help myself. Please tell me why Kraft suspended JJ and JM if he truly thought they did nothing wrong? Did he think that would placate the critics and the issue would be dropped? Wouldn't that make him despicable for throwing two innocent people under the bus?

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There is a thread discussing that, why are you in this one with this nonsense?