Patriots Legal Counsel Rebuttal of Wells Report

shmessy said:

THAT'S what I want to know.

If both Jastremski and McNally gave that definition to Wells, why did Wells completely ignore that in his report.

He could have written, "they claimed that it meant this, but it seems far-fetched".

Instead he redacted it from the report altogether.

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Because it weakens his entire point. He also conveniently redacted the entire subplot about how some of those text messages ("under a lot of stress") were wrongfully attributed to Brady and not that fraud investigator. Almost all of his - already - circumstantial evidence gets weaker and weaker if he includes all of what he has been told. I actually wonder if there is some contract he signed with the NFL when he decided to do the report that legally binds him to compile the whole thing in good faith. Because looking at how much information he left out, I'd argue that you could nail him on leaving out pertinent information. And, looking at it all the only way out of the entire cluster**** for the league is to actually sue Wells for delivering them a completely flawed report. Of course none of it will happen and if Kraft follows through they will burn.

1960Pats said:

I also like the fact that the counter-report leads me to believe that this fight isn't going to end at a mere drop of the suspension to Brady. I hope that's a fact.

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At this point I think you can assume that the two things are almost independent of each other. Of course both groups are cooperating internally but there is TeamBrady fighting the 4 game suspension via appeal and TeamKraft hopefully fighting the loss of draft picks via whatever means they have.

tigerjohn said:

I think the biggest mistake the explanations for the texts made is trying to move it outside the context of football prep. It would have been easier to argue that deflating and inflating footballs is part of their job. The focus should be on the lack of evidence that there was intent to deflate below the 12.5 limit. There is no evidence to support any kind of scheme to operate outside of the limit.

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As others have already stated, the truth is the truth. You don't change things around it to make it more convenient or a better PR point.

VectorPrime said:

Interesting but ultimately meaningless. Critics will claim that McNally is referring to how the game is going poorly for the Pats, and specifically the offense, and is jokingly telling Jast that he should deflate the balls to help out. Jokingly in the sense that McNally knows it can't be done at this point but it points to them having a knowing practice of deflating balls.

I'm not saying I believe that. But that is what people will say.

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More than likely referring to the TD pass by Rogers with 14 seconds left in the half was 'deflating'
Sure, the sock puppet media might but that text isn't in any way evidence for deflating footballs - which inexplicably Wells thinks it does:

A text message sent by McNally to Jastremski during a Patriots road game against the Green Bay Packers on November 30, 2014, includes a possible suggestion to “deflate” footballs. As recovered from Jastremski‟s cell phone, the message states:
and
Kickoff for the game was scheduled for 4:25 p.m. EST, so it is likely that the text message was sent at or around halftime. We planned to discuss this message with McNally during our requested follow-up interview. As noted above, we were unable to do so because counsel for the Patriots refused to make McNally available.

A couple of guys on the Internet can synch that text to actual events, but Wells' crack investigation team couldn't figure it out after four months and $5 million dollars. More evidence for just how bad this Wells report is.

I'd recommend reading the comments in that article, there are a couple there from lawyers that are pretty illuminating.

well, if the text was during the packer game, no way he was referencing losing weight. Trying to be honest here, there does seem to be something going on with the "deflate" texts that don't sit right with me. It's quite apparent that deflating balls was an ongoing joke going back a ways and IMO, they were up to no good.

sambam94 said:

well, if the text was during the packer game, no way he was referencing losing weight. Trying to be honest here, there does seem to be something going on with the "deflate" texts that don't sit right with me. It's quite apparent that deflating balls was an ongoing joke going back a ways and IMO, they were up to no good.

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Did you read the link? Someone synced the text with a screenshot of Jastremski in a puffy coat with another jacket in his hands. McNally saw him and sent the text.

I'm shocked really that more fans aren't looking at the PatsPulpit post.

It needs to be its own thread.

And this is why this whole Deflategate gets crazier just when you think it can't.

That some fan actually thought to sync up the text with the timing of the Packers game, and then provide context for a very important tweet, well, that is hilariously crazy and...

GREAT.

I have to say this might be my favorite thing so far.

It deserves a thread.

Concussion Protocol said:

So before this, I just assumed McNally "snuck" the balls out of the refs locker room and into the bathroom. This report shows he casually walked past a gaggle of NFL officials and executives carrying 2 large bags of footballs without a worry in the world. Not exactly a picture of guilt.

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The piece of garbage on NFLN Michael Silver keeps saying a Patriots locker room attendant "stole the balls out of the officials locker room!!!!" Emphasizing the Stole part of it, and then chastises the entire website by pointing to a single line in it about how McNally was referred to as the deflator because he was trying to lose weight .. (which honestly, why did they even bother to include that, it doesn't help the defense)

Michael Silver is like full blown antipatriots and anti Tom Brady since the Wells report came out, constantly just shaking his head whenever someone tries to put perspective on this.. like Eric Davis was trying to say this isn't a big deal and it certainly didn't affect the outcome of the game and Michael Silver went off saying "if it didn't give Tom an advantage then why would he do it!? The Colts deserve an even playing field!!!"


This guy is disgusting, and they have him on like every single segment now running that hole in his face, shaking his head and attacking anyone who is even remotely trying to defend the Pats or suggest any other context other than how Brady is A filthy, lying cheater and has been his entire career and how .4 psi out of a football was the reason the Colts got hammered 28-0 in the second half of th3 afccg

he ends every time with "don't insult our intelligence!" Then claims to be a fan boy of Brady.


These media personalities are totally f'ed in the head.. it HAS to be scripted, they must be told to take these positions

This ... is actually a pretty big deal. It a) deserves its own thread, and b) should be sent to the Pats PR people.

Chiuba E. Obele said:

Do you buy this?

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this rebuttal would be perfect if not for this piece of it. It's a weak and unbelievable context, even if true, and they have mountains of logic and reason that can be used to debunk the Wells report without including this piece of garbage.

It's also allowed people like Michael Silver to literally ignore the entire rebuttal and focus on this very specific line to discredit all of it.

JarOfMayo51 said:

this rebuttal would be perfect if not for this piece of it. It's a weak and unbelievable context, even if true, and they have mountains of logic and reason that can be used to debunk the Wells report without including this piece of garbage.

It's also allowed people like Michael Silver to literally ignore the entire rebuttal and focus on this very specific line to discredit all of it.

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I was one of the first on here yesterday making light of the Patriots explanation, even if true...

But have you seen the Patspulpit post?

Seeing a picture of Jazstermski in a puffy coat holding up a jacket for someone to wear, synced up precisely with the timing of McNally's text, has me thinking that "deflate" refers to Jazstremski's puffiness.

I wouldn't have believed it myself if a fan hadn't synced it up, and I wouldn't have believed these 2 guys were joking like this, but in a world of Dorito Dinks, I'm allowing it into my mental horizons.

Do me a favor and look at that picture in the Patspulpit link before you think that deflate can't refer to weightloss.

upstater1 said:

I was one of the first on here yesterday making light of the Patriots explanation, even if true...

But have you seen the Patspulpit post?

Seeing a picture of Jazstermski in a puffy coat holding up a jacket for someone to wear, synced up precisely with the timing of McNally's text, has me thinking that "deflate" refers to Jazstremski's puffiness.

I wouldn't have believed it myself if a fan hadn't synced it up, and I wouldn't have believed these 2 guys were joking like this, but in a world of Dorito Dinks, I'm allowing it into my mental horizons.

Do me a favor and look at that picture in the Patspulpit link before you think that deflate can't refer to weightloss.

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The Patriots had just got burned on that end of half TD by Rodgers and Nelson. It was a devastating play. Is suspect he's telling Jastremski to relax. While that does not refer to weight loss, it does show they loosely use that term for other meanings unrelated to footballs and air pressure. This is a big deal and needs to get out to the media.

Here's the video of Jastremski walking around with the jacket in his hands.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/green-bay-packers/0ap3000000436904/Revis-reacts-to-a-Green-Bay-touchdown

upstater1 said:

I was one of the first on here yesterday making light of the Patriots explanation, even if true...

But have you seen the Patspulpit post?

Seeing a picture of Jazstermski in a puffy coat holding up a jacket for someone to wear, synced up precisely with the timing of McNally's text, has me thinking that "deflate" refers to Jazstremski's puffiness.

I wouldn't have believed it myself if a fan hadn't synced it up, and I wouldn't have believed these 2 guys were joking like this, but in a world of Dorito Dinks, I'm allowing it into my mental horizons.

Do me a favor and look at that picture in the Patspulpit link before you think that deflate can't refer to weightloss.

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Oh I think it can certainly refer to weight loss and thay syncing of the text is amazing, but ultimately it's a weak defense in this case given how out of control this has all gotten.

I guess it's important to include it if you go to court, and the only way someone can refute it is by calling them liars

JarOfMayo51 said:

Oh I think it can certainly refer to weight loss and thay syncing of the text is amazing, but ultimately it's a weak defense in this case given how out of control this has all gotten.

I guess it's important to include it if you go to court, and the only way someone can refute it is by calling them liars

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The 'deflator' reference may not sound like a convincing explanation, but it doesn't have to be. Legally speaking, if evidence is circumstantial, than there can be any number of explanations that clarify context...and this happens to be one of them.

JarOfMayo51 said:

this rebuttal would be perfect if not for this piece of it. It's a weak and unbelievable context, even if true, and they have mountains of logic and reason that can be used to debunk the Wells report without including this piece of garbage.

It's also allowed people like Michael Silver to literally ignore the entire rebuttal and focus on this very specific line to discredit all of it.

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And if it were left out MORE people would be focussing on the omission.
The fact that Michael Silver is making himself look like a buffoon should not worry you.

Chiuba E. Obele said:

The 'deflator' reference may not sound like a convincing explanation, but it doesn't have to be. Legally speaking, if evidence is circumstantial, than there can be any number of explanations that clarify context...and this happens to be one of them.

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The other point no one is making, is that a statement by a witness is not refuted by a lawyer saying he thinks its a lie, its refuted by EVIDENCE to the contrary. There is none.

JarOfMayo51 said:

Oh I think it can certainly refer to weight loss and thay syncing of the text is amazing, but ultimately it's a weak defense in this case given how out of control this has all gotten.

I guess it's important to include it if you go to court, and the only way someone can refute it is by calling them liars

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And using it to prove a conspiracy to deflate footballs is stronger??? We desperately need to start teach critical thinking and logic skills in our schools.

AndyJohnson said:

The other point no one is making, is that a statement by a witness is not refuted by a lawyer saying he thinks its a lie, its refuted by EVIDENCE to the contrary. There is none.

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Not necessarily. Credibility plays a big role and Wells was supposed to be more than a lawyer - he was effectively the jury, the trier of fact. For a truly independent investigation witness demeanor is often key. But Wells wasn't independent; the conclusion was preordained and he traveled a pretty twisted road to get to those conclusions. That contorted road led to a harsh punishment. That's why he is having such a hard time now.

TomPatriot said:

Not necessarily. Credibility plays a big role and Wells was supposed to be more than a lawyer - he was effectively the jury, the trier of fact. For a truly independent investigation witness demeanor is often key. But Wells wasn't independent; the conclusion was preordained and he traveled a pretty twisted road to get to those conclusions. That contorted road led to a harsh punishment. That's why he is having such a hard time now.

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You are making my point.
The only way to find guilt is to say everyone is lying. The only way to CREDIBLY say everyone is lying is to have EVIDENCE TO CONTRADICT. There is no evidence to contradict. The only 'evidence' is Wells interpretation of texts, which the texter and recipient explained and he called a lie.
Under that standard everyone is guilty of everytihng.
Did you do it?
No.
You are lying, you clearly did it. Based upon my disbelief of your answer you are clearly guilty.

So is Mcnally the overweight one or JJ ? And who asked who deflate and give the jacket?

Edited post... was just my defensive overreaction.. nothing to see here folks!