PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Will Patriots appeal the loss of draft picks and fine?


Status
Not open for further replies.

VJCPatriot

Pro Bowl Player
Joined
Apr 28, 2006
Messages
16,654
Reaction score
5,224
I've heard that Brady is appealing his suspension. However I haven't heard if the team will be appealing the punishment levied against the franchise yet -- Two draft picks, including a 1st round pick, and 1 million dollars.
Considering that even the Wells Report concluded that BB and Patriots upper management had no knowledge of any deflated footballs, wouldn't it stand to reason for the franchise itself to appeal the heavy handed punishment by the NFL? The draft picks hurt a lot and Kraft had put the stance of accepting punishment in the "past tense."

So have the Patriots submitted an appeal today or is it going to hit later tonight?
 
I'm not sure they can appeal. I believe their only recourse is to get the commissioner to change his mind, likely through pressure and threats if Kraft is up to it.
 
images
 
They will absolutely appeal. The Patriots organization and support system are not giving once inch of ground on this scandal - have no doubt they will prevail in all court rooms. Fully convince they feel they have been railroaded and they will fight and defy every step of the way.

Today the fence sitters were given alot to consider. Great job by the NE PR people and lawyers - the NFL front office is no match for them. Especially if Ted Wells is their best weapon!
 
I've heard that Brady is appealing his suspension. However I haven't heard if the team will be appealing the punishment levied against the franchise yet -- Two draft picks, including a 1st round pick, and 1 million dollars.
Considering that even the Wells Report concluded that BB and Patriots upper management had no knowledge of any deflated footballs, wouldn't it stand to reason for the franchise itself to appeal the heavy handed punishment by the NFL? The draft picks hurt a lot and Kraft had put the stance of accepting punishment in the "past tense."

So have the Patriots submitted an appeal today or is it going to hit later tonight?

They have 10 days I believe to appeal.
 
I'm not sure they can appeal. I believe their only recourse is to get the commissioner to change his mind, likely through pressure and threats if Kraft is up to it.
This is america, you can sue anyone for anything at any time.
 
I'm not a lawyer so I'm just repeating what I read.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/05/...riots-created-baseline-for-potential-lawsuit/

“It’s also about creating a baseline for a potential lawsuit; that if the NFL doesn’t revise the punishment in a way the Patriots find acceptable, they could file a lawsuit or an antitrust claim against the league and other owners. They could file a lawsuit based on defamation,” said McCann. “There are a number of potential legal claims, but none of them would likely workbecause the Patriots, by being a franchise in an association of teams, have contractually assented away some of their rights to sue. But it’s possible that the document could be used as a basis for a lawsuit as well.”
 
I think Kraft is waiting until the owners meetings in S.F. on Monday
 
Thanks. So they have until May 21st. That's the date I was looking for.

Just MY opinion but based on the Well's Report and Vincent's letter handing down punishment I feel the Patriots have a case to overturn the penalties levied based on abuse of discretion. There are two things that stand out to me: 1. Troy Vincent specifically uses Spygate as a basis for the heavy punishment. 2. The Wells report concluded that the Patriots coaches, management, and staff had no knowledge of any wrongdoing whatsoever.

1. For example Vincent specifically refers to Spygate as the reason the NFL punishes the Pats franchise heavily in this instance. In this country you cannot punish a person or entity, in this case the Patriots franchise, for past wrong-doings only current wrong-doings. As a matter of fact the Pats already paid a heavy price that included a 1st round pick for Spygate.

"Here, there are several factors that merit strong consideration in assessing discipline. The first is the club's prior record. In 2007 the club and several individuals were sanctioned for videotaping signals of opposing defensive coaches in violation of the Constitution and Bylaws. Under the Integrity of the Game Policy, this prior violation of competitive rules was properly considered in determining the discipline in this case." - Troy Vincent, Letter to Patriots

To punish the Pats twice, or to use Spygate as consideration for the current punishment, when the team is innocent of wrong-doing or knowledge of wrong-doing would be an abuse of discretion of the power of the NFL commissioner's office. Not to mention it is already weird that Goodell delegated the actual handing down of punishment to Vincent instead of doing the dirty work directly himself.

2. The NFL punishes the Patriots even though the Wells reports concluded that the Patriots management and BB were unaware of ANY wrong-doing related to the deflation of footballs. It makes very little sense to punish the franchise for behavior that was not directed by them and for which they had no knowledge.

"We do not believe that the evidence establishes that any other Patriots personnel participated in or had knowledge of the violation of the Playing Rules or the deliberate effort to circumvent the rules described in this Report. In particular, we do not believe there was any wrongdoing or knowledge of wrongdoing by Patriots ownership, Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick or any other Patriots coach in the matters investigated. We also do not believe there was any wrongdoing or knowledge of wrongdoing by Patriots Head Equipment Manager Dave Schoenfeld." - Ted Wells, Wells Report

In other words, the punishment flies in the face of known facts and conclusions. And if Brady's suspension is overturned. What basis is there for a punishment of the Patriots when they were cleared of any "knowledge of wrongdoing" by the very report the NFL spent millions of dollars to have printed? Welcome to Hypocrisy, aka the NFL commissioner's office. I do not expect this punishment to hold up if reviewed by a competent independent party. The punishment does not fit the conclusion.

Did the Detroit Lions get fined and lose draft picks when Suh hits an offensive lineman in the nuts? Yet the Patriots get fined and lose draft picks because according to Wells, 'more probably than not', Tom Brady "had general awareness" of ball deflation. The NFL has gone MAD with power.
 
Time for Kraft to grow a set of horse balls!
 
Thanks. So they have until May 21st. That's the date I was looking for.

Just MY opinion but based on the Well's Report and Vincent's letter handing down punishment I feel the Patriots have a case to overturn the penalties levied based on abuse of discretion. There are two things that stand out to me: 1. Troy Vincent specifically uses Spygate as a basis for the heavy punishment. 2. The Wells report concluded that the Patriots coaches, management, and staff had no knowledge of any wrongdoing whatsoever.

1. For example Vincent specifically refers to Spygate as the reason the NFL punishes the Pats franchise heavily in this instance. In this country you cannot punish a person or entity, in this case the Patriots franchise, for past wrong-doings only current wrong-doings. As a matter of fact the Pats already paid a heavy price that included a 1st round pick for Spygate.

"Here, there are several factors that merit strong consideration in assessing discipline. The first is the club's prior record. In 2007 the club and several individuals were sanctioned for videotaping signals of opposing defensive coaches in violation of the Constitution and Bylaws. Under the Integrity of the Game Policy, this prior violation of competitive rules was properly considered in determining the discipline in this case." - Troy Vincent, Letter to Patriots

To punish the Pats twice, or to use Spygate as consideration for the current punishment, when the team is innocent of wrong-doing or knowledge of wrong-doing would be an abuse of discretion of the power of the NFL commissioner's office. Not to mention it is already weird that Goodell delegated the actual handing down of punishment to Vincent instead of doing the dirty work directly himself.

2. The NFL punishes the Patriots even though the Wells reports concluded that the Patriots management and BB were unaware of ANY wrong-doing related to the deflation of footballs. It makes very little sense to punish the franchise for behavior that was not directed by them and for which they had no knowledge.

"We do not believe that the evidence establishes that any other Patriots personnel participated in or had knowledge of the violation of the Playing Rules or the deliberate effort to circumvent the rules described in this Report. In particular, we do not believe there was any wrongdoing or knowledge of wrongdoing by Patriots ownership, Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick or any other Patriots coach in the matters investigated. We also do not believe there was any wrongdoing or knowledge of wrongdoing by Patriots Head Equipment Manager Dave Schoenfeld." - Ted Wells, Wells Report

In other words, the punishment flies in the face of known facts and conclusions. And if Brady's suspension is overturned. What basis is there for a punishment of the Patriots when they were cleared of any "knowledge of wrongdoing" by the very report the NFL spent millions of dollars to have printed? Welcome to Hypocrisy, aka the NFL commissioner's office. I do not expect this punishment to hold up if reviewed by a competent independent party. The punishment does not fit the conclusion.

Did the Detroit Lions get fined and lose draft picks when Suh hits an offensive lineman in the nuts? Yet the Patriots get fined and lose draft picks because according to Wells, 'more probably than not', Tom Brady "had general awareness" of ball deflation. The NFL has gone MAD with power.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are correct.

2. The NFL punishes the Patriots even though the Wells reports concluded that the Patriots management and BB were unaware of ANY wrong-doing related to the deflation of footballs. It makes very little sense to punish the franchise for behavior that was not directed by them and for which they had no knowledge.

The Panthers, Ravens, Lions all should be punished if that is the case.
DW Toys
 
I think Kraft is waiting until the owners meetings in S.F. on Monday
Imagine that one. All the owners show up, chit chat a bit in a conference room. Kraft suddenly rolls in with his posse and a fur coat and shades on, and proclaims "Kraft runs this b**** now, all y'all gon be f***ed! Anti-trust this!" and moons everyone, flips them the double bird, and tosses a stack of legal documents into the air.
 
The loss of the draft picks is way more damaging than the Brady suspension. This should be the focus of the Patriots right now. Also the loss of of the draft picks is even more ridiculous than the Brady suspension which was insane to begin with.

The punishment was way out of line.
 
The loss of the draft picks is way more damaging than the Brady suspension. This should be the focus of the Patriots right now. Also the loss of of the draft picks is even more ridiculous than the Brady suspension which was insane to begin with.

The punishment was way out of line.
IMO the draft picks, fine, and suspension pale in comparison to saving Brady's reputation.
 
I think Kraft is waiting until the owners meetings in S.F. on Monday

My speculation is that the moment the meetings start, there will be an immediate request to call an emergency Executive Session. That is the real purpose of today's release of the annotation -- to give the other 31 owners and their counsel the weekend to see exactly what the Pats have and to assess the risk. What happens from there depends on exactly how powerful and influential Kraft really is (as well as other info he may have).
 
I don't want to sound pessimistic, but the NFL is going to screw the Pats again. To assume they will change anything about the ruling is just wishful thinking. Just like thinking the Wells report would be fair!
The whole thing needs to an independent arbitrator, and that wont happen on the appeal!
 
My dream scenario...

Damages are intended to make a person "whole", to place them in such a position as if the wrongful act had never occurred...

Patriots DON'T get a first round pick in 2016, court is moving too slowly...

Judge views value lost with draft pick as similiar to value lost with the time value of money (Google this if unfamiliar)...

Patriots end up with MUCH HIGHER PICK (1st overall if judge finds NFL especially egregious?) in 2017 to compensate the lost value of having a 1st round pick developing a year in the system, etc.. And of course keep pick #32 as well.

I'm not just throwing this up here, I actually believe this makes sense based on simple damages principles. If you suffer a loss $1 in 2015, and don't receive compensation until 2017, the value of that dollar has increased. It would end up no different than if BB had traded one year's 1st for a 1st in the following year.
 
Fining a team for a player infraction is the silliest part of this whole mess. Even if TB did it and came out and said I did it docking the team like they did just doesn't make any sense. The irony is the science proves nothing happened but a good ass kicking that night. My hope is BK can get the new York weasels out of power.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


MORSE: Patriots Draft Needs and Draft Related Info
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/19: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/16: News and Notes
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/15: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-14, Mock Draft 3.0, Gilmore, Law Rally For Bill 
Potential Patriot: Boston Globe’s Price Talks to Georgia WR McConkey
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/12: News and Notes
Back
Top