Brady has hired Jeffrey Kessler as per Schefter

Tony2046 said:

Even if Roger is the arbitrator he will have to decide whether or not he wants to go through a possible litigation process with Brady's lawyers. My guess is he doesn't and would reduce Brady's suspension with the hope that they avoid a long process that exposes the ignorance of the NFL.

Click to expand...

Brady isnt looking to get this reduced, he is looking to get this overturned and the ruling to be the wells report had zero evidence Brady was aware and that him not giving up his cell phone is a non-issue because wells and the NFL don't have subpoena power.

TheBostonStraggler said:

People are just not using their logic if they are thinking this is going to get Goodell fired. Consider that most of the media is barely mentioning Goodell when reporting this story. I'm even reading stuff that is almost sympathetic to Goodell (nauseating).

Look, the only way this gets the Emperor fired if it starts a bigger movement that involves other non-Brady elements. Further, Goodell stepping down is not going to change the entrenched PR justice culture of the NFL Exec jester court. Goodell's replacement is likely to dive head first into the entrenched PR justice culture once the first public outrage comes knocking.

The likely reason Goodell and the Exec office will change is because their behavior ends up causing football's popularity to go down. Just is what it is...

Click to expand...

If the anti-trust exemption gets put into play, Goodell is gone. That's too big a hit for the owners to stand by him. If Roger does not drop the entire suspension for Brady on appeal there is still the potential for litigation in court with the potential of challenging the exemption.

JMC00 said:

Brady isnt looking to get this reduced, he is looking to get this overturned and the ruling to be the wells report had zero evidence Brady was aware and that him not giving up his cell phone is a non-issue because wells and the NFL don't have subpoena power.

Click to expand...

Bingo! That's where I think there will come down to in court. A conclusion of the evidence and a suspension can't be based on his refusal to hand over his cell phone text messages or emails given the NFL's lack of subponea power. It's a dangerous precendence to set for players going forward. Brett Favre refused to give up his phone and received a fine. Brady should have received a similar punishment if anything in comparison and not 4 games. He suspension was generally based on "conduct detrimental to the league" because he failed to incriminate himself in any wrong doing and for not handing over text messages.

Joker said:

The NFLPA bargained away that ability in the last contract, Gr8est

Click to expand...

If you are talking about the Pats appealing the fine and loss of draft picks, I don't see how that would have anything to do with the NFLPA or the CBA, because it is between the team and the league. That relationship would be governed by the league bylaws, NFLPA is not a party to those so could not negotiate any points related to them.

If the bylaws do not allow for appeal the only potential avenue for recourse might be litigation. Seems to me that Kraft could hire Kessler to sue the league on that issue, it would have no conflict with Kessler representing Brady or the NFLPA as clients as far as I can see. But IANAL ...

JMarr said:

Eh, it was actually less, or right about spot on for what I suspected for Brady--before this, he appeals and gets it down to 1 or two games at the most. It was the fine and loss of draft picks against the team that literally blew me away, after the report specifically exonerated BB etc. I'm hoping that the NFL is as stupid as they seem to be to have gone after the organization like this after only implicating Brady and the ball guys. Maybe Goodell is really so stupid that he thought punishing the Pats would have a sort of trickle-down effect sort of like Sean Peyton the Saints. However the fact that BB is the one coming out of this smelling like a rose raises even more questions imo.

I just don't know--hell, maybe the commish's plan was to make Troy Vincent (and possibly Wells) the fall guy if it came to something like this.

Click to expand...

TFB is not going to accept anything but full exoneration. If he takes any kind of suspension it is like he is admitting guilt.

Tony2046 said:

Even if Roger is the arbitrator he will have to decide whether or not he wants to go through a possible litigation process with Brady's lawyers. My guess is he doesn't and would reduce Brady's suspension with the hope that they avoid a long process that exposes the ignorance of the NFL.

Click to expand...

I see the logic but I think that time is past. Any backtrack by the NFL exec office would probably cause marked backlash for them. They stood up on their righteous pedestal and said this is about integrity! It is all about integrity of the game! No star, no team is above the integrity of the game!
Wouldn't the integrity be up for sale if they backtrack on punishment for the sake of making everything easy?

The NFL had the opportunity to make this relatively simple (even after making it more than it needed to be in the first place). I bet Kraft would have accepted it, I bet even Brady relatively quietly accepts it: Maybe a 500,000 dollar fine to the team, 500,000 fine on Brady, a mid round draft pick, maybe one game suspension (down the road Brady gets it overturned thru a non PR based arbitration claim). I think that is small enough that the Patriots and Brady swallow it for the sake of easiness. And
I don't believe that kind of punishment would have been viewed as taking it easy on the Patriots -- which is why it is baffling the NFL execs went this road that would result in them becoming involved heavily in the legal process.

TheBostonStraggler said:

People are just not using their logic if they are thinking this is going to get Goodell fired. Consider that most of the media is barely mentioning Goodell when reporting this story. I'm even reading stuff that is almost sympathetic to Goodell (nauseating).

Look, the only way this gets the Emperor fired if it starts a bigger movement that involves other non-Brady elements. Further, Goodell stepping down is not going to change the entrenched PR justice culture of the NFL Exec jester court. Goodell's replacement is likely to dive head first into the entrenched PR justice culture once the first public outrage comes knocking.

The likely reason Goodell and the Exec office will change is because their behavior ends up causing football's popularity to go down. Just is what it is...

Click to expand...

There seem to be some people continuing to cling to so much blind hope that they somehow feel that this is going to implicate Roger Goodell in some fashion. The truth of the matter is that he was much more involved in some of the other examples, and the rest of the owners were completely fine with it. There may be a stronger push to include more power to the union during the next CBA bargaining session, but it's very unlikely that there's suddenly a mutiny with the other 31 owners, most of them who couldn't care less about the Patriots or their 2nd serious punishment, when they don't even have a first.

Nothing "good" is going to come out of this for anyone, aside from the possibility of seeing Brady's suspension reduced, and a strong argument against the validity (or more appropriately, the lack thereof) in the Wells report. If you're the kind of person who enjoys seeing others drown right along side you even if that means we all die, then you may find some comfort when holes are punched in the story, making everyone look bad in the process. I don't see many scenarios where everyone stands up and admits that we were right, while jumping out of their executive windows. If anything, the suspension/penalty may be reduced, and it may help to implement a 3rd party arbitration system for other cases down the line.

supafly said:

There seem to be some people continuing to cling to so much blind hope that they somehow feel that this is going to implicate Roger Goodell in some fashion. The truth of the matter is that he was much more involved in some of the other examples, and the rest of the owners were completely fine with it. There may be a stronger push to include more power to the union during the next CBA bargaining session, but it's very unlikely that there's suddenly a mutiny with the other 31 owners, most of them who couldn't care less about the Patriots or their 2nd serious punishment, when they don't even have a first.

Nothing "good" is going to come out of this for anyone, aside from the possibility of seeing Brady's suspension reduced, and a strong argument against the validity (or more appropriately, the lack thereof) in the Wells report. If you're the kind of person who enjoys seeing others drown right along side you even if that means we all die, then you may find some comfort when holes are punched in the story, making everyone look bad in the process. I don't see many scenarios where everyone stands up and admits that we were right, while jumping out of their executive windows. If anything, the suspension/penalty may be reduced, and it may help to implement a 3rd party arbitration system for other cases down the line.

Click to expand...

I don't think TB will accept anything but complete exoneration. He takes a reduction he is basically admitting guilt. I would wager he would retire rather than give into RG.

supafly said:

There seem to be some people continuing to cling to so much blind hope that they somehow feel that this is going to implicate Roger Goodell in some fashion. The truth of the matter is that he was much more involved in some of the other examples, and the rest of the owners were completely fine with it. There may be a stronger push to include more power to the union during the next CBA bargaining session, but it's very unlikely that there's suddenly a mutiny with the other 31 owners, most of them who couldn't care less about the Patriots or their 2nd serious punishment, when they don't even have a first.

Click to expand...

I agree about Goodell. He played this well, he handed off the investigation, so when that turns out biased and flawed he's off the hook, he only paid for it. If the punishment ends up being excessive then that's on Troy Vincent. He gets the image boost he wanted, I'm sure he could care less what happens as far as appeals go, but if he's the arbitrator he obviously has to shoot it down. It's basically a win/win situation for Goodell. No risk, he boosts his public image and strengthens his job security.

n6249c said:

If the anti-trust exemption gets put into play, Goodell is gone. That's too big a hit for the owners to stand by him. If Roger does not drop the entire suspension for Brady on appeal there is still the potential for litigation in court with the potential of challenging the exemption.

Click to expand...

Well I might agree if the ATE was put in jeopardy. But I don't believe whatsoever that this battle is a threat to the general ATE. If others feel that way then we'll agree to disagree.
This fight is about punching a hole in the Wells Report, the egregious way the NFL execs used such a flimsy conclusion to mete out extremely harsh justice, and Brady and the Patriots receive no punishment.

Sure, in the process we may get a ruling that says the power given the Commissioner in Section 109, subsection 11, paragraph 5 is illegal and void. We'll get the satisfaction of yet another Judge saying the Emperor is acting outside his authority. And when it's all done and, let's say it's a win! with Brady is not suspended and the Patriots get their picks back, the ATE will remain either completely intact or 99.999% intact. And, unfortunately, Goodell will still be sitting in his office (probably burning ants with a magnifying glass).

supafly said:

If anything, the suspension/penalty may be reduced

Click to expand...

When this all over Brady will be leading the team out on September 10.

JMC00 said:

When this all over Brady will be leading the team out on September 10.

Click to expand...

I hope you're right, I hope the worst has passed and there will only be some well-deserved good news the rest of the way.

the league ****ed this up from day 1. there was no penalty that would have fit the crime, since there was no crime.

The report the nfl paid millions for proved there was no wrong doing, instead of taking the facts provided, the nfl took the word of the man they paid millions because in his unbiased opinion the patriots did it, because well walt anderson is a beacon of integrity and memory, except for this part where his memory doesn't fit with what i think happened, so we are going to question it, we are not going to question other parts of the story though just this part which makes my arguement not work.. oh and the part where the colts balls some how were super high, instead of super low and the other gauge said they were low and not high, yeah the refs dont remember doing anything differently so im going to fabricate that they switched gauges.. or maybe they switched places. none of that really matters because science is stupid, if we wanted to do science we would have gone to college instead of getting our degrees on ebay.

JMC00 said:

When this all over Brady will be leading the team out on September 10.

Click to expand...

Poor Pittsburgh this is going to be a team as fired up as it can be not only tom but majority of country feels the Superbowl win is tainted what better way to make a statement by blowing out a AFC contender

moejr said:

I don't think TB will accept anything but complete exoneration. He takes a reduction he is basically admitting guilt. I would wager he would retire rather than give into RG.

Click to expand...

What does that even mean? Is that like the posters here who "refused to accept anything other than full exoneration," when I said that we'd be lucky to get out of this with a 25k dollar equipment violation? There's only so much one can do when placed in a bad situation. This was destined to fail from the get go, which was proven when the NFL decided to place us in a bad light leading up to their biggest game of the year. Obviously, they are under the assumption that all news--even bad news, still puts them in the spotlight.

Brady can't get a full exoneration. That has now become impossible. The team was fined, stripped of draft picks, and a dark cloud hangs over Foxborough; even if he gets his personal suspension reduced, rightfully so, through NFLPA tactics. They may be able to show that there is a major lack of evidence if they win a neutral party ruling for arbitration (otherwise, it's the exact same thing, which is why Goodell pretended to hand the case of to Vincent for the ruling in the first place), and that could lead to a reduction in suspension. Hell, Brady may even walk away with 0 games missed, but he'll never be fully exonerated. That isn't possible.

We can use the term "scorched earth" as much as possible over the next 4+ months, but Ted Wells (and other NFL execs) managed to paint the outline of a fairly serious rules infraction involving Brady and the team---even if they are wrong and didn't perform a fair investigation. Those questions aren't going away, they'll only add to an unfortunate situation that makes more people look badly. Unless McNally comes forward as the main fall guy, which is something I've actually wondered about, Brady will always have this controversy surrounding him. It's horrible. He may find some comfort in damage control, but never full exoneration.

supafly said:

What does that even mean? Is that like the posters here who "refused to accept anything other than full exoneration," when I said that we'd be lucky to get out of this with a 25k dollar equipment violation? There's only so much one can do when placed in a bad situation. This was destined to fail from the get go, which was proven when the NFL decided to place us in a bad light leading up to their biggest game of the year. Obviously, they are under the assumption that all news--even bad news, still puts them in the spotlight.

Brady can't get a full exoneration. That has now become impossible. The team was fined, stripped of draft picks, and a dark cloud hangs over Foxborough; even if he gets his personal suspension reduced, rightfully so, through NFLPA tactics. They may be able to show that there is a major lack of evidence if they win a neutral party ruling for arbitration (otherwise, it's the exact same thing, which is why Goodell pretended to hand the case of to Vincent for the ruling in the first place), and that could lead to a reduction in suspension. Hell, Brady may even walk away with 0 games missed, but he'll never be fully exonerated. That isn't possible.

We can use the term "scorched earth" as much as possible over the next 4+ months, but Ted Wells (and other NFL execs) managed to paint the outline of a fairly serious rules infraction involving Brady and the team---even if they are wrong and didn't perform a fair investigation. Those questions aren't going away, they'll only add to an unfortunate situation that makes more people look badly. Unless McNally comes forward as the main fall guy, which is something I've actually wondered about, Brady will always have this controversy surrounding him. It's horrible. He may find some comfort in damage control, but never full exoneration.

Click to expand...

I'll clarify. I said exoneration as in no suspension.

Tweet from Peter King 20 minutes ago
Peter King ‏@SI_PeterKing
Jeffrey Kessler will be happy when he considers 2 things in Brady v NFL case: 1 Walt Anderson losing gameballs. 2 Impact of Ideal Gas Law.

and
Peter King ‏@SI_PeterKing 30m30 minutes ago
Peter King retweeted jim lohmar

Something about weather affecting PSI. Read MMQB this week. You’ll see the problem the NFL has here.

JMC00 said:

When this all over Brady will be leading the team out on September 10.

Click to expand...

You may be right about that, but unless someone else like McNally steps up and takes full responsibility without any knowledge of Brady, he can never really be truly exonerated.

The NFL and Wells outlined a sinister attempt at tarnishing his image, and no matter what happens with his penalty, they've succeeded on some level. A reduction in his suspension will help, but the media and opposition will continue to focus on the lost draft picks, and the controversy, just the same way they did with N.Orleans--even though Vilma had his stuff overturned.

It's ********.

what are the chances that the appeal is held by a " neutral " arbitrator and not goodell/one of his toadies?

thanks

ChoWZa said:

I agree about Goodell. He played this well, he handed off the investigation, so when that turns out biased and flawed he's off the hook, he only paid for it. If the punishment ends up being excessive then that's on Troy Vincent. He gets the image boost he wanted, I'm sure he could care less what happens as far as appeals go, but if he's the arbitrator he obviously has to shoot it down. It's basically a win/win situation for Goodell. No risk, he boosts his public image and strengthens his job security.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure there's even ONE person out there who believes Troy Vincent came up with and issued this punishment on his own.