Hasn't the NFL violated the CBA with their punishment of TB12?

I may be wrong in this but my limited understanding of the CBA is that in that agreement with the Players Union the NFL bargained away its right to require surrender of cell phones and electronic media, Email, text, etc.
If this understanding is correct then why isn't the punishment for TB12 not turning over his cell phone and electronic media a clear violation of the CBA?

the NFL gave the public what it wanted in wake of the ray rice debacle.

the point here is that the NFL has the ability to hand out any punishment it wants as baseless as it may be. then it is the appeals process that corrects the blunders whether it is through the league or in a real courtroom.

what I don't understand is why the league would go so overboard on so little detail......they knew there was going to be an appeal, but none of what the league has done so far helps them in terms of appearing to be concerned about the integrity of the game. they were not concerned about the integrity of the AFCC since they had a plan in place to expect the pats to be cheating.

they have gone so overboard that they can guarantee that the FACTS will be scrutinized now, and the result will be how completely baseless AND biased the process was.

De Smith (NFLPA) only cares about the process that takes place leading up to the punishment. this is where the NFL case derails from the very first moment. the entire process leading up to the AFCC will be put under a microscope. This is where it will all fall apart and there will be no basis for a suspension in the end. No negotiation, no nothing. If De Smith has an opportunity to destroy Goodell, you know he's going to do everything into that. There is an incredible opportunity for an NFLPA power play here. probably set the dominoes in place for a lockout in a couple of years.....I love it! A soap opera on steroids!!!!

if you really want to boil it down, there should be no penalties at all because even though the league felt there was a chance the pats were cheating, they did not act to make sure that was not the case from the beginning of the game. so the integrity of the game was destroyed by the NFL office itself before the game even started.

If they had a process in place for the game and the game started without a hitch, then there was no problem at the start of the game.

IllegalContact said:

if you really want to boil it down, there should be no penalties at all because even though the league felt there was a chance the pats were cheating, they did not act to make sure that was not the case from the beginning of the game. so the integrity of the game was destroyed by the NFL office itself before the game even started.

If they had a process in place for the game and the game started without a hitch, then there was no problem at the start of the game.

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This will most certainly come up in appeals or in federal court.

I would like someone to show how the evidence shows it is more probable that the Patriots deflated balls than the Colts inflated them.

1) Science shows it
2) Colts have motive, as indicated by email to league citing 'everyone knows' and being unable to give any single example of someone who knew
3) Colts requested balls to be measured at halftime

Take a step back and look at the evidence. Lets go get the cell phones of everyone in Indy to see if we can create evidence against them based on interpreting their texts, and inventing what must have been said on phone calls.

When you look at it objectively you can easily hit the 'more probable than not' standard with less assumptions than Wells used.
That is why this is so ridiculous.

I just want to know who is going to punish the NFL front office in the end for this whole cluster-f*ck

The manner in which this issue was handled by the NFL front office has done more to damage the brand than any cheating over the entire course of the goodell regime

Is there noway to get the picks back though even if Brady and the NFLPA completely blows it up? That would be ******** if they can't get the picks and the fine money back.

PP2 said:

This will most certainly come up in appeals or in federal court.

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Keep in mind there's a standing precedent in federal court that the entire Personal Conduct Policy is total bunk.

primetime said:

Keep in mind there's a standing precedent in federal court that the entire Personal Conduct Policy is total bunk.

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zero evidence.......a 16 year vet of the league with a perfectly clean record

I still don't get what the NFL front office was thinking..........I get the idea to set the bar high in order to wind up with something in a negotiation, but this is so high that there will be no negotiation....there will only be a fight with a forced result

and at the end of the day, what is it going to boil down to? an owner who has built a franchise business model that can't be beat, an owner who has invested so much of his time and money into a franchise........or a guy who is sitting on the shoulders of others trying to call himself 'tall'

if push comes to shove, the 31 other business men will only back the 32nd owner because that is the path that least negatively impact their own investment.

won't even be about right or wrong..........even the woody johnsons will at some point stop and say 'Bob is right, Roger is wrong' ........ all Kraft has to do is fight

IllegalContact said:

I just want to know who is going to punish the NFL front office in the end for this whole cluster-f*ck

The manner in which this issue was handled by the NFL front office has done more to damage the brand than any cheating over the entire course of the goodell regime

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I think people will look back on this in 10 years and wonder why the league acted the way it did.

Why not do anything before the game (warning, extra security steps)? After the investigation, why not declare the results inconclusive (it wouldn't take much to massage the report in that direction), issue a nominal fine and move on? The league's shortcomings and petty vindictiveness will be put in the spotlight now.

I think back to David Stern squashing the Tim Donaghy scandal. That could have crippled the league and Stern dealt with it to an extent that it barely gets mentioned. Goodell would have poured gas over that situation.

Rawky77 said:

I may be wrong in this but my limited understanding of the CBA is that in that agreement with the Players Union the NFL bargained away its right to require surrender of cell phones and electronic media, Email, text, etc.
If this understanding is correct then why isn't the punishment for TB12 not turning over his cell phone and electronic media a clear violation of the CBA?

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Perhaps i was not clear in my proposed point. Let me attempt to clarify this point

Example A: company negotiates with the union and agrees that overtime will not be required but will simply be requested of employees.
Yet when an employee refuses their request they suspend said employee for four days without pay.
This is a clear violation of their agreement with the Union and is reviewable in any Federal Court.

If the present CBA does in fact contain a clause which prohibits the NFL from forcibly demanding access to players electronic media devices then the NFL is violating the CBA by punishing TB12 for refusing to let them search his electronic devices. This would give TB12 immediate standing in Federal Court to adjudicate this violation with the union.
The letter to TB12 specifically states that refusal to cooperate is one basis for the harsh punishment. Said refusal is the failure to turn over his cell phone and emails.
Sorry for not explaining this better to begin with.

IllegalContact said:

if you really want to boil it down, there should be no penalties at all because even though the league felt there was a chance the pats were cheating, they did not act to make sure that was not the case from the beginning of the game. so the integrity of the game was destroyed by the NFL office itself before the game even started.

If they had a process in place for the game and the game started without a hitch, then there was no problem at the start of the game.

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This is what will ultimately doom the NFL. And they deserve it. They knowingly sacrificed the integrity of the game in order to set up a situation where they could gain support for pinning something on the Pats which actually never happened.

Clear impropriety

Concerning the NFL, integrity is a myth.

Bruins29 said:

This is what will ultimately doom the NFL. And they deserve it. They knowingly sacrificed the integrity of the game in order to set up a situation where they could gain support for pinning something on the Pats which actually never happened.

Clear impropriety

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some writer wrote that Goodell loses every single time the issue leaves Park Avenue

There are only three things that ultimately matter here.
1. League knew about this and did nothing to warn that Pats like they did other teams. Obviously had no interest in integrity of the game
2. The Wells report clearly indicated there was no wrongdoing
3. There was no coverup. The Pats, and TB fully cooperated and the CBA has made it clear that no player is to surrender a cell phone - which wouldn't matter since they had the other cell phones that TB allegedly texted.

So, nobody can aruge integrity, nobody can argue proof and nobody can argue coverup.

Bruins29 said:

This is what will ultimately doom the NFL. And they deserve it.

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Actually, that's probably head trauma.

I like this quote from Vice:

But I don't think this fully explains the verve, the ardor, the brow-furrowing relish which Goodell had for this fourth-rate scandal, a passion even more cartoonishly rendered by the mainstream sports media. In short, as with the specter of piped-in crowd noise, or dastardly in-game text messaging, Deflategate is a "perfect little scandal" over which Goodell (and Troy Aikman and Michael Wilbon and the rest) can pontificate over without affecting the bottom line of a business unrivaled in sports history. The only nerve Deflategate touches is the national hatred and resentment of the Patriots as cheaters, which, besides being almost universally relatable, is catnip for any producer in Bristol who needs an hour of fresh shouting every morning.

It's a safe scandal, because it is a small spectacle burnishing an enormous spectacle; there is a sense of unreality, reading text messages complaining about Tom Brady as if he's the office Lumbergh, or catching the ball boy unsure whether he used a urinal or a stall. In wrestling terms, prosecuting a patently silly and weird Deflategate would not be breakingkayfabe; it would be the strutting, grandiose Mr. McMahon levying the punishment, not actual corporate titan and billionaire Vincent K. McMahon. A sideshow—of fevered investigations and Masshole personality crises and interminable debates over "legacy"—that is good for business, at least when your business is entertainment.

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I believe that there is something else going on that most folks don't consider.

The NFL knew from Day 1 that nothing they handed out in penalties would stand. Everything would be overturned in court, or through the appeals process. Why? Because the intent of the entire investigation was NEVER to overtly punish Brady or the Patriots. It was NEVER to find actual evidence of "cheating". The report was designed from the very start to smear Brady and New England. To tarnish their legacy in the eyes of others outside of the fan base. And they have done that.

The report was written in a way that all the penalties could be overturned because their was no actual basis for those penalties. The results were determined, then the report written to meet those results.

Even knowing that the appeals process and court actions would overturn everything, the NFL (read that as Goodell and his thug monkey posse) the NFL knew it would win. Brady and New England have once again been accused of "cheating", their reputations tarnished, and all the haters have plenty of red meat to chew on until the season started.

Goodell despises New England. He has burned his bridges with Robert Kraft, stabbing him in the back with this whole affair. It's not much different than the witch trials of Salem. Troublemakers were accused of witchcraft, a trial was held, and then the accused were disposed of. Same here, except that the Patriots and Brady were simply troublemakers that needed to be dealt with.

What kind of trouble? Winning despite all the shackles placed upon them by the league. Winning when they weren't supposed to, like the AFCCG and the Superbowl. Using the rules as written against Baltimore. New and inventive schemes, all legal, that made other teams look like rank amateurs. New England consistently wins despite the league's desire for parity, and the league (read Goodell and his thug monkies) cannot have that. So down comes the hammer.

Brady, despite his eventual win in this situation, will forever have a stain on his record. It's unfairly put there, and regardless of his eventual vindication, hordes of haters will never believe he wasn't "cheating".

So the NFL front office wins, regardless of what happens now.

What New England needs to do now is a repeat of 2007, but with a different final outcome of the Superbowl. I believe it can happen. I so want to see it happen. It needs to happen.

Sorry for the long rant, but I'm convinced that I'm right in this case. I just wanted to explain why I thought the way I did.

Bruins29 said:

This is what will ultimately doom the NFL. And they deserve it. They knowingly sacrificed the integrity of the game in order to set up a situation where they could gain support for pinning something on the Pats which actually never happened.

Clear impropriety

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They've been doing things like this for years, especially against New England. Goodell and his posse of thug monkeys have been trying to rig, or push, certain games to get certain other teams to win big. Two come to mind. First, the AFCCG against Manning and the Colts wehere New England went for it on 4th and 2. Faulk caught that ball and the film shows him over the 1st down line. However, the refs claim he didn't and actual are seen moving the ball further back.

The other example is the 2007 SB. Just before that circus catch, Eli is being mauled by 3 Patriots. He is wrestling and moving around, but never forward. Finally, after many seconds, he breaks free and throws that pass. The refs should have called him down "in the grasp" as they had been instructed to for years, in order to protect the QB. But instead they let it play, and the result is history. Another Patriots loss.

Time and again the refs have called "interesting" penalties against New England when they were playing teams the NFL wanted to win. You cannot tell me anymore, after so many examples of this, that Goodell and his posse of thug monkeys are NOT trying to influence the outcome of certain games. Now it's New England AGAIN getting punished because they played by the rules as written, and not by Goodell's script.

Call me a conspiracy nutter. I don't care, because there are too many examples of shading by the officials to overlook it.

Anyway that's my 2-cent's worth on the leagues alleged "integrity".

Bruins29 said:

There are only three things that ultimately matter here.
1. League knew about this and did nothing to warn that Pats like they did other teams. Obviously had no interest in integrity of the game
2. The Wells report clearly indicated there was no wrongdoing
3. There was no coverup. The Pats, and TB fully cooperated and the CBA has made it clear that no player is to surrender a cell phone - which wouldn't matter since they had the other cell phones that TB allegedly texted.

So, nobody can aruge integrity, nobody can argue proof and nobody can argue coverup.

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If the CBA has such a clause, I can't find it.

That doesn't mean it doesn't exist elsewhere (for example, the document doesn't specify very much about drug testing), but AFAIK it's not in the text of the CBA itself.