How Big A Factor Are Brady's Emails and Phone Records?

Deus Irae said:

Already happened with Favre, to the tune of $50k.

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Wow. That is CRAZY ANYWHERE outside the NFL... Did not know that.

In an environment such as the one Goodell has created where the possibility of severe punishment is a reality on assumptions only, the only thing there is for the subject to do is say nothing.

the thinking here is that there is no value in presenting your information to someone who can simply choose to ignore it and save it for the appeal process when the accuser is bound to the report at hand.

this is where it not being a court of law works for the accused.

why do it this way? simple, jus tlook at the part about walt anderson and the gauge/needle.....his recollection was that he most likely used the gauge that exonerates the pats (because if the balls would have been 12.5psi) and Wells twisted that into it being certainly possible that the other needle was used.

it can be pretty much guaranteed that even if brady did give his phone, we would be in the exact same spot because of the agenda of the front office.....wells would have figured out another way to get to this point.......so, say nothing, wait the process out, and when it's time, use what you have to shred the charges to itty bitty pieces........the smoldering crater in the front office after this fiasco is going to have the owners wondering out loud if they don't need to reconsider how they do things.

the problem with all of the circumstance in the wells report is that the scenarios considered aren't even the most likely possibilities

After ted wells leaked conversations of Jaz and his mom, no way brady shouldve given his cell phone. Even if they didnt put any personal stuff in the report, its only a matter of days before someone leaks something to TMZ or something. He coulve used language critcizing Goodell, talking to some players from other teams about common opponents...who knows . Why would he want all this to get out ? His cellphone has everything.

I'm kind of hoping that Brady finally hands over his phone and dozens of nude selfies from Jane Skinner show up. "Sorry, Rog. I never led her on she just keeps sending them to me."

From peter king today, brady was interviwed in march 6th. And according to yee he was one of the last ones interviewed , so obviously they wanted to build a case vs him and confront him last. No way the cell phone wouldve made a difference in how they wrote the report.

The Wells report went on and on about Jastermski's texts to his mother. Don Yee and Brady should use that as an example of why they were well within their right to not turn over the phone.

Wells Reports' goal: To impugn, embarrass Tom Brady and the New England Patriots

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2012/07/drew_brees_says_that_nobody_tr.html

Drew Brees will say 'I told you so'

"Nobody trusts him. Nobody trusts him. I'm not talking about a DUI, or using a gun in a strip club, which are pretty clear violations. I think there're too many times where the league has come to its decision in a case before calling a guy in, and the interview is just a façade. I think now if a guy has to come in to talk to Roger, he'll be very hesitant because he'll think the conclusion has already been reached.''

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and this is what is going to happen.........since goodell can decide punishments on arbitrary information, he set himself up to only get information at a time when a player decides to use it to defend himself......

jmt57 said:

The Wells report went on and on about Jastermski's texts to his mother. Don Yee and Brady should use that as an example of why they were well within their right to not turn over the phone.

Wells Reports' goal: To impugn, embarrass Tom Brady and the New England Patriots

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The NFL and Wells, especially Wells who as a lawyer most assuredly would tell his client not to turn over the phone knew Brady wouldn't turn it over. In fact they were probably hoping he wouldnt hand it over so they could drum up the "he didn't cooperate, so he must have some guilt" angle.

The problem wth turning over the phones or e-mails is that they would likely lead to people other than those the NFL had already interviewed. It was a fishing expedition. Wells already had all of Brady's outgoing texts from the phones he had access to. Again, he was fishing.

Someone posted (in another thread) that Gostkowski also was asked to give up his phone and he too refused.

And if Brady gave his phone and wells found a text to Jez saying what did you idiots do? Wells would probably laugh and say...what a weak cover up. If Brady was innocent he wouldn't have texted Jez at all. If Brady asked about his mother ..it would have been code for don't forget I take care of you. If Brady said I told you guys only deflate before the refs check. it would mean....aha so he does tell them to deflate. No texts....aha Brady deleted them !

hambone1818 said:

Good question, and I hadn't read into this distinction until just now. Here's the relevant section of the report.

Similarly, although Tom Brady appeared for a requested interview and answered questions voluntarily, he declined to make available any documents or electronic information (including text messages and emails) that we requested, even though those requests were limited to the subject matter of our investigation (such as messages concerning the preparation of game balls, air pressure of balls, inflation of balls or deflation of balls) and we offered to allow Brady‟s counsel to screen and control the production so that it would be limited strictly to responsive materials and would not involve our taking possession of Brady‟s telephone or other electronic devices.

That does shed a slightly different light on the matter, but I wonder what the CBA says about this. I'm sure Brady, Yee and a players union rep discussed this at some point.

We'll see where this 'non-cooperative' narrative goes, if it's cited in any punishment and what Brady/Yee's response is to it. My guess is union members are under no obligation to surrender this type of information in an investigation, though it could just be my biased opinion.

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1) Apparently, Brady wasn't asked for for his phone, no matter how many hundreds of time we repeat that he was.

2) If the request was a violation of the CBA, why didn't the union object or make a statement?

3) Cooperation or not can change the severity of a sentence. I don't that this is in any way unusual.
Cooperation or not might be the difference in how many games or how much money.

4) I expect that Brady will respond to the above alleged failure to cooperate when he makes a statement.

Hand over private phone conversations of a MAJOR celebrity to an organization that has leaked many, many "stories"??? No F 'ing way. The media would have a field day.

mgteich said:

1) Apparently, Brady wasn't asked for for his phone, no matter how many hundreds of time we repeat that he was.

2) If the request was a violation of the CBA, why didn't the union object or make a statement?

3) Cooperation or not can change the severity of a sentence. I don't that this is in any way unusual.
Cooperation or not might be the difference in how many games or how much money.

4) I expect that Brady will respond to the above alleged failure to cooperate when he makes a statement.

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I'm sure the CBA would not be interested in a request. He can request a night with Giselle if he likes. But if they are going to punish him for not providing it then that is an issue the NFLPA would probably fight. If there's a punishment for not doing it, then it's not a request.

ChesBay said:

Exactly....and interesting similar to both the Lois Lerner and Hillary Clinton cases, whereby they refused to turn over their cell phone/email info when faced with much more legally compelling reasons to do so (at least some would contend). But this whole angle of analysis fails to focus on the real problem. If the NFL must compel its players to give up their private information in order to prove guilt, wouldn't it just be a better idea to change its internal processes so it doesn't have to resort to such practices, thereby diminishing the value of the very product (star football players) that it is marketing? To that end (and it's already been stated by many on this forum) , merely changing the inspection process and associated custody rules for the handling of its footballs would have eliminated the quagmire the NFL has managed to create.

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I think it's a little different with Lerner and Clinton. McNally and the other guy are not comparable than Brady. They had company cell phones so the company owns them and they had to give them up. Lerner and Clinton both use government emails so they are owned by the public. It would be more like if McNally threw his phone in the river and then smashed the Patriot owned server when he was asked for the information. Certainly that would make him look suspicious, and be justification for punishment. I bet if they have personal phones and emails they didn't give them to Wells. In fact I almost guarantee they have personal Emails, so the standard Brady is being held to is probably unique. As far as I know he didn't get personal texts or emails from anyone else on private devices either. Giving up private emails or texts on your personal phone is IMO completely different. I would never agree to it, and I have nothing to hide....

As far as you all know.

skinnydog said:

The problem wth turning over the phones or e-mails is that they would likely lead to people other than those the NFL had already interviewed. It was a fishing expedition. Wells already had all of Brady's outgoing texts from the phones he had access to. Again, he was fishing.

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And after a few days TMZ will leak something totally unrelated from the phone.

Jim Colclough fan said:

Recently read the ball-boys phones were company phones. So, they were obligated to turn over their phones with all texts. The investigators wanted Brady's personal cell phone - which (like any one of us) he refused

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I'm not sure that Kraft was under any obligation to allow Wells to see the phone records of the ball boys either. Like the mush ball that he is, he wanted to cooperate fully.

Brady's emails/texts have zero relevance. It's merely a fishing expedition. But we're not in a court of law where fishing expeditions are seen as the BS that they are.

Wells already has any electronic communication Brady had with any Patriots staff. Because Wells got it from the other person on the other end of any exchange. Wells and Goodell just have their noses out of joint because Brady didn't immediately confess and plead for mercy. And saying "no" to any request/demand from a league investigator, no matter how unreasonable the demand, is technically a violation.

Hopefully the union will see it for what it is and the precedence it sets and scream bloody murder.

TBR said:

Well, if they are so sure that Brady had communicated to J.J or J.M about deflating the balls below a legal amount or to alter them after ref inspection, how come they didn't find any of Brady's texts/calls/emails on J.M or J.J's phone? Just texts between J.J and J.M...

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Exactly.

Goody and the other Jetsons spent millions of dollars on the best "investigation" that money could buy, and they couldn't find squat. They made Brady's case for him. It's kind of comical when you think about it.

And the Pats keep winning...