Patriots Fan Response

patsbrasilpatriotas · May 7, 2015

ctpatsfan1 said:
Sorry if you do the average differences Pats to 12.5 Colts to 13 for each test you will find the following:

Pats avg change on Blakeman tests - 1.4 psi
Pats avg change on Piroleau tests - 1.0 psi
Average change of those two averages - 1.2 psi

Colts avg change on Blakeman tests - .4 psi
Colts avg change on Piroleau tests - .6 psi
Average change of those two averages - .5 psi

Do the math that is a 2.6X difference Pats versus Colts........i.e. the Pats balls, on average, changed 2.6 times more than the Colts balls.....

If you change the Colts Balls to 12.5 starting point their average is ZERO average PSI change.

If you change the Pats Balls to a 13 starting point their average is 1.7 average psi change which is a 3.6x change versus the Colts balls.

Who is making stuff up now or doesn't know the facts? Looking at you patsbrasilpatriotas and Rxjock1120..........if you are going to make statements you had better have the facts to back them up.

Really explain this math.

You add different data and manipulate to yout advantage ?

Let's use the same numerical sample.

Patriots Balls : 1. 3 , 6. 7 .

They lost respectively : 0.7 , 1 , 0.55 , 0.2 PSI = 2.45 psi ...

The Colts balls : 0.65,07,0.5 , 0.85 = 2.7 Psi ...

In %:

Patriots : 12.5 x 4 = 50 Psi . 2.45 / 50 = 4.9 % ...

Colts : 13.0 x 4 = 52 Psi . 2.7 / 52 = 5.1 % ....

Can you tell what the temperature of each room when they were inflated ? I think not ...

patsfan13 · May 7, 2015

ctpatsfan1 said:
Sorry if you do the average differences Pats to 12.5 Colts to 13 for each test you will find the following:

Pats avg change on Blakeman tests - 1.4 psi
Pats avg change on Piroleau tests - 1.0 psi
Average change of those two averages - 1.2 psi

Colts avg change on Blakeman tests - .4 psi
Colts avg change on Piroleau tests - .6 psi
Average change of those two averages - .5 psi

Do the math that is a 2.6X difference Pats versus Colts........i.e. the Pats balls, on average, changed 2.6 times more than the Colts balls.....

If you change the Colts Balls to 12.5 starting point their average is ZERO average PSI change.

If you change the Pats Balls to a 13 starting point their average is 1.7 average psi change which is a 3.6x change versus the Colts balls.

Who is making stuff up now or doesn't know the facts? Looking at you patsbrasilpatriotas and Rxjock1120..........if you are going to make statements you had better have the facts to back them up.

So show me where the Colts balls started?

10.0 13.5, 14? see they weren't recorded, i will assume the Pats balls were at 12.5. So you analysis is meaningless. Think Anderson would open himself to ridicule if the Colts balls were out of spec and he admitted it?

patsbrasilpatriotas · May 7, 2015

To be fair , how will you compare a sample almost three times smaller than the other, not knowing if they have the same kind of preparation for the game , if the material both had the same degree of wear, ambient temperature among other factors?

I mean the balls can be inflated with hours apart , in much warmer environment than others , if the process is flawed you want to blame a team is ridiculous.

RxJock1120 · May 7, 2015

ctpatsfan1 said:
Sorry if you do the average differences Pats to 15 Colts to 13 for each test you will find the following:

Pats avg change on Blakeman tests - 1.4 psi
Pats avg change on Piroleau tests - 1.0 psi
Average change of those two averages - 1.2 psi

Colts avg change on Blakeman tests - .4 psi
Colts avg change on Piroleau tests - .6 psi
Average change of those two averages - .5 psi

Do the math that is a 2.6X difference Pats versus Colts........i.e. the Pats balls, on average, changed 2.6 times more than the Colts balls.....

If you change the Colts Balls to 12.5 starting point their average is ZERO average PSI change.

If you change the Pats Balls to a 13 starting point their average is 1.7 average psi change which is a 3.6x change versus the Colts balls.

Who is making stuff up now or doesn't know the facts? Looking at you patsbrasilpatriotas and Rxjock1120..........if you are going to make statements you had better have the facts to back them up.

And why exactly are all the footballs assumed to start at exactly the same pressure, even thought when measured not one single football pressure measure matches another one...

YOUGOTMOSSED · May 7, 2015

patsfan13 said:
This was a railroad job and the fans should respond to defend Brady, since our feckless owner is bending Brady over for Goodell.

This is the part of having a really hard time with. It's appalling how Kraft can be so irresolute in the face of something like this. He just seems to be the type who tries to be everybody's buddy and when the wrong people (looking at you Goodell/NFL front office) take advantage of this, he curls up into a ball.

Kraft seems like a nice guy. Niceness to a point becomes weakness and makes you an easy target for sociopaths (I'm looking at you NYC).

If he's not up for a fight, he need to pass the torch to someone who is. We simply cannot bend over and take this.

ctpatsfan1 · May 7, 2015

patsbrasilpatriotas said:
Really explain this math.

You add different data and manipulate to yout advantage ?

Let's use the same numerical sample.

Patriots Balls : 1. 3 , 6. 7 .

They lost respectively : 0.7 , 1 , 0.55 , 0.2 PSI = 2.45 psi ...

The Colts balls : 0.65,07,0.5 , 0.85 = 2.7 Psi ...

In %:

Patriots : 12.5 x 4 = 50 Psi . 2.45 / 50 = 4.9 % ...

Colts : 13.0 x 4 = 52 Psi . 2.7 / 52 = 5.1 % ....

Can you tell what the temperature of each room when they were inflated ? I think not ...

So let me get this straight I used all 11 Patriots balls tested and all 4 Colts balls tested. The starting points per the report 12.5 for Pats and 13.0 for Colts and some how I am fudging the math?

Where as you use 4 Pats balls and 4 Colts balls and you are not fudging the math?

Got it.....

ctpatsfan1 · May 7, 2015

RxJock1120 said:
And why exactly are all the footballs assumed to start at exactly the same pressure, even thought when measured not one single football pressure measure matches another one...

Because that is the historical point at which the QB's/teams have had their balls pumped too to start a game. They needed to pick a point those are what they chose. Even if you start them at the same point 12.5, 13 or 13.5 the Pats balls changed by almost 2 times (1.7 to be exact) times the amount the Colts balls changed by.

ctpatsfan1 · May 7, 2015

patsfan13 said:
So show me where the Colts balls started?

10.0 13.5, 14? see they weren't recorded, i will assume the Pats balls were at 12.5. So you analysis is meaningless. Think Anderson would open himself to ridicule if the Colts balls were out of spec and he admitted it?

Do you actually understand the analysis. If you start all the balls at the same point the Pats balls changed by a greater amount (1.7 times more to be exact) than the Colts balls.

Like I said to start be it nature or intent it doesn't matter this isn't a court of law. The Pats have haters in the NFL front office in NY and now they have the purported smoking gun. They won this battle, it is what it is. Take the penalty, learn from this experience and move on and f**k them over by winning the SB again. Everyone pissing and moaning about the report and the science and whatever else is meaningless. The NFL wanted to embarrass the Pats and Brady and this report provides the "evidence" to do that. This battle is over the Pats and Brady lost. Move on and win the war.

patsbrasilpatriotas · May 7, 2015

ctpatsfan1 said:
So let me get this straight I used all 11 Patriots balls tested and all 4 Colts balls tested. The starting points per the report 12.5 for Pats and 13.0 for Colts and some how I am fudging the math?

Where as you use 4 Pats balls and 4 Colts balls and you are not fudging the math?

Got it.....

I used the same number of balls for both teams . The result I calculated and showed you which balls I choose. Is thhe result correct ? Do the math.

If you have a small sample of balls to the other team it is the fault of the NFL that does not properly trained employees.

The Patriots deliver the balls for the measurement of the judges , if the balls are one Psi above or under the limit, its up to them to fix the error.

Ring 6 · May 7, 2015

ctpatsfan1 said:
I disagree. Let's set the facts straight:

1. The Patriots balls whether by nature or intent were all below (on both test gauges utilized) the legal limit per the rules. The Colts balls tested were within the legal limit by at least one of the gauges utilized. End of story. Everything else is extraneous and irrelevant.

The rules are the rules, they broke them, someone needs to be punished. In this case it looks as if it will be Brady and the two locker room flunkies. Is the federal case the haters are making it out to be, not even close but it is what it is.

Pats need to be sure the balls stay at the 12.5 psi or higher level throughout the game so they need to start at a higher level to begin with. They also need to setup a process of chain of custody to be sure there is no foul play and it needs to be documented.

Call it a learning experience, call it BS because I am certain there are other teams doing it in the league, whatever the Pats, like camera location-gate, got caught and now must pay the piper. I'll say it again, it is what it is. Circle the wagons, its the league verse the Pats, I for one can't wait to see how this all plays out this year, here's hoping for another 2007 but with a 19-0 outcome.

This is wrong. The team is not responsible for the balls being at 12.5 to 13.5, the referees are.
The team could hand the balls to the referee at 1psi or 50psi if they wanted.
Once the ref approves the ball, the team has no responsibility for the pressure within it, they are just not allowed to do anything to manipulate it. There is not a single piece of evidence that proves they did.

RDS11 · May 7, 2015

ctpatsfan1 said:
Do you actually understand the analysis. If you start all the balls at the same point the Pats balls changed by a greater amount (1.7 times more to be exact) than the Colts balls.

Like I said to start be it nature or intent it doesn't matter this isn't a court of law. The Pats have haters in the NFL front office in NY and now they have the purported smoking gun. They won this battle, it is what it is. Take the penalty, learn from this experience and move on and f**k them over by winning the SB again. Everyone pissing and moaning about the report and the science and whatever else is meaningless. The NFL wanted to embarrass the Pats and Brady and this report provides the "evidence" to do that. This battle is over the Pats and Brady lost. Move on and win the war.

I don't understand why anyone would obsess over the data given in the Wells report. From the start, it says that the PSI were measured by Anderson, but he didn't write down anything. Then, for the halftime measurement, gauge A and gauge B are giving results that are 0.4 PSI apart. For all I know, it's possible that the Pats balls might have been measured at 12.1 PSI if Anderson had used the other gauge prior to the game.

We will never know, because the data wasn't properly collected. How can the report then use incomplete data to make a conclusion, I don't know...

patsfan13 · May 7, 2015

ctpatsfan1 said:
So let me get this straight I used all 11 Patriots balls tested and all 4 Colts balls tested. The starting points per the report 12.5 for Pats and 13.0 for Colts and some how I am fudging the math?

Where as you use 4 Pats balls and 4 Colts balls and you are not fudging the math?

Got it.....

We know nothing about the Colts Ball pre game the measurement were never recorded.

What makes that so hard for you to understand?

patsbrasilpatriotas · May 7, 2015

ctpatsfan1 said:
Because that is the historical point at which the QB's/teams have had their balls pumped too to start a game. They needed to pick a point those are what they chose. Even if you start them at the same point 12.5, 13 or 13.5 the Pats balls changed by almost 2 times (1.7 to be exact) times the amount the Colts balls changed by.

Are you sure that measuring the same amount of balls the results would be the same? Or you are assuming random values for both teams ?

Have you ever thought that the ball of the Colts could initially be over 13.5 lets say 14 psi or 15 or more ?

They apparently did not measure any ball just put any value to fill a protocol and if you have any contrary evidence please show .

The word of an employee of the league, for me it is not enough to discredit the best player in the league for 15 years. A person who has never had any discreditable behavior.

Anyway , I did the math and choosing four balls ( 1,3,6,7 - Pats) of each team, the Colts one lose a little more psi.

PatsDeb · May 7, 2015

RxJock1120 said:
I know we all have a substantial vested interest in this team and we need to come up with a fan response to this ridiculous witchhunt. While I am not 100% sure of what the best response would be, my initial suggestion would be for anyone planning to watch the first game of the season at home, to avoid doing so. I would greatly encourage everyone to still attend the game, but to boycott the airing of the game. If we can get a substantial decline in ratings, this would send a message the NFL could not ignore...because fans and rating are what clearly drive the decision making process. I am definitely open to further suggestions, however I unconditionally believe that there needs to be a public display of fan frustration. Thoughts?

It's funny you should say this, because I was thinking of suggesting that no Patriots fans watch or listen to the Indy game. Total boycott. Let it get a 0.0 in the Boston area for ratings as a protest by a very large fan base to what is going on. That way we won't have to miss out on what is supposed to be a celebration of our own team, but will still hopefully send a message to the NFL. At this moment I have already told my husband I am not watching any other NFL games this year except the Pats (and I usually watch 3-4 per week), but of course I am weak and who knows if I will be able to stick with my personal boycott. I was also going to try to go to the Dallas game in October, but I will not be giving the NFL one more penny this year if there is any punishment handed to the Pats or Tom Brady.

FrodoBagginz · May 7, 2015

Media and population anger at the increasing wage gap with the top 1% hoarding wealth? Nope. Media and population anger at corporations not paying or paying little taxes? Nope. But wait!!!! A report comes out that says Tom Brady "PROBABLY" ordered the deflation of footballs but with no real evidence? MEDIA AND POPULATION FIRESTORM.

Welcome to the new America.

1960Pats · May 7, 2015

patsfan13 said:
Wrong it is not BS the company that did the so called test had NO BASELINE to work off of other than the MEMORY of Old Walt Anderson.

The company hired has a history of being hired guns for people like the Tobacco & Auto manf in lawsuits. They never talked to scientist who had done the calculations and experiments at places like MIT and Carnage Mellon. They also can't account for the fact that PSI is lost when the balls are measured and the temp difference when the Pats balls were measured first while the Colts balls had more time to warm up.

This was a railroad job and the fans should respond to defend Brady, since our feckless owner is bending Brady over for Goodell.

Right on the money p13. I'm real disappointed in Kraft, even if he has some agreement with the rest of the NFL. If it wasn't for Tom Brady and Bill Belichick, Kraft's investment wouldn't have gone up at such an extraordinary pace. He also wouldn't have the 4 Lombardis hanging on his mantle.

I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore, and I'm just as upset at the Pats fans who are wilting under the weight of a slanted Wells report.

I say we put all of them on railroad cars and ship them off to Siberia.

I'm ready for WAR!

Dr Pain · May 7, 2015

ctpatsfan1 said:
Sorry if you do the average differences Pats to 12.5 Colts to 13 for each test you will find the following:

Pats avg change on Blakeman tests - 1.4 psi
Pats avg change on Piroleau tests - 1.0 psi
Average change of those two averages - 1.2 psi

Colts avg change on Blakeman tests - .4 psi
Colts avg change on Piroleau tests - .6 psi
Average change of those two averages - .5 psi

Do the math that is a 2.6X difference Pats versus Colts........i.e. the Pats balls, on average, changed 2.6 times more than the Colts balls.....

If you change the Colts Balls to 12.5 starting point their average is ZERO average PSI change.

If you change the Pats Balls to a 13 starting point their average is 1.7 average psi change which is a 3.6x change versus the Colts balls.

Who is making stuff up now or doesn't know the facts? Looking at you patsbrasilpatriotas and Rxjock1120..........if you are going to make statements you had better have the facts to back them up.

Problem. The drop seen in the Patriots balls is what one expects to see based on a drop from 72 degrees to 48 degrees.

The Patriots do not have to answer for the Colts balls. Were they outside right before they were brought in and measured pregame? Likely given they were the away team. Since we don't know we can only look at the Patriots balls in and of themselves and they are within the scientifically expected range.

PatsDeb · May 7, 2015

1960Pats said:
Right on the money p13. I'm real disappointed in Kraft, even if he has some agreement with the rest of the NFL. If it wasn't for Tom Brady and Bill Belichick, Kraft's investment wouldn't have gone up at such an extraordinary pace. He also wouldn't have the 4 Lombardis hanging on his mantle.

I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore, and I'm just as upset at the Pats fans who are wilting under the weight of a slanted Wells report.

I say we put all of them on railroad cars and ship them off to Siberia.

I'm ready for WAR!

The only problem is, Joker already loaded the railroad cars to Siberia with Jets fans

patsfan13 · May 7, 2015

PatsDeb said:
It's funny you should say this, because I was thinking of suggesting that no Patriots fans watch or listen to the Indy game. Total boycott. Let it get a 0.0 in the Boston area for ratings as a protest by a very large fan base to what is going on. That way we won't have to miss out on what is supposed to be a celebration of our own team, but will still hopefully send a message to the NFL. At this moment I have already told my husband I am not watching any other NFL games this year except the Pats (and I usually watch 3-4 per week), but of course I am weak and who knows if I will be able to stick with my personal boycott. I was also going to try to go to the Dallas game in October, but I will not be giving the NFL one more penny this year if there is any punishment handed to the Pats or Tom Brady.

Disagree the Opening Game is the big stage, tell the Kraft's to unveil the banner the first game Brady plays at home, I am presuming a Brady suspension here. Boycott the Opening of the NFL season in protest to the slandering of the GOAT QB by scumbags like Goodell and Kensil who paid Well to put the knife in Brady's back, they are cowards.

1960Pats · May 7, 2015

PatsDeb said:
It's funny you should say this, because I was thinking of suggesting that no Patriots fans watch or listen to the Indy game. Total boycott. Let it get a 0.0 in the Boston area for ratings as a protest by a very large fan base to what is going on. That way we won't have to miss out on what is supposed to be a celebration of our own team, but will still hopefully send a message to the NFL. At this moment I have already told my husband I am not watching any other NFL games this year except the Pats (and I usually watch 3-4 per week), but of course I am weak and who knows if I will be able to stick with my personal boycott. I was also going to try to go to the Dallas game in October, but I will not be giving the NFL one more penny this year if there is any punishment handed to the Pats or Tom Brady.

Pretty good idea Deb.

I think if we all put our heads together we can come up with a list of teams to avoid. The Ravens come to mind right away. We also need to organize. If enough people got together we could possibly have an impact.

I remember leaving MLB and the Sox many years ago. It was easier than I thought it would be and made me feel much better. I don't miss it one bit.

I don't think the NFL has reached that point yet, but it's moving in that direction at a record pace.

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