Isn't McCourty A Better Than Average Zone Corner?

Is McCourty a viable option at corner? If we are to be primarily a zone defense, then McCourty, Fletcher and even Ryan are more valuable than in a man defense.

OPTION 1
2 of Fletcher, Butler and Ryan

OPTION 2
#1 from a trade and one of Fletcher, Butler and Ryan

OPTION 3
McCourty and one of Fletcher, Butler and Ryan

Yeah but I personally don't want the Pats to return to "death by a thousand papercuts". It's been nice having corners who are actually proficient in both over the last couple of years. McCourty is a serviceable zone corner and a bad man to man corner. He cannot get his head turned around when in trail. That's why he was moved to safety in the first place. Why people want to weaken two positions by moving McCourty, a top tier FS in the NFL (not just the AFC) is beyond me. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

It doesn't really matter who the CBs are playing zone here. Zone is going to fail ultimately like it always has.

KontradictioN said:

Yeah but I personally don't want the Pats to return to "death by a thousand papercuts". It's been nice having corners who are actually proficient in both over the last couple of years. McCourty is a serviceable zone corner and a bad man to man corner. He cannot get his head turned around when in trail. That's why he was moved to safety in the first place. Why people want to weaken two positions by moving McCourty, a top tier FS in the NFL (not just the AFC) is beyond me. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

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To be clear, you think that Fletcher AND Butler are better zone corners than McCourty?

McCourty will be our #1 CB. I've been saying this since the very minute Revis signed with NYJ.

In 2010 with a decent safety, he was WAY more than above average as our #1 cb. Then in 2011/2012 we had crap at safety, he was mediocre at best. Im not quite ready to commit to supporting the idea of moving him to cb but I wouldn't mind some experimenting early on too see if someone else can be a manageable fs and how DMC fares, given our current personnel at cab.

Marqui said:

It doesn't really matter who the CBs are playing zone here. Zone is going to fail ultimately like it always has.

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Well then we shouldn't even watch the season

mgteich said:

Is McCourty a viable option at corner? If we are to be primarily a zone defense, then McCourty, Fletcher and even Ryan are more valuable than in a man defense.

OPTION 1
2 of Fletcher, Butler and Ryan

OPTION 2
#1 from a trade and one of Fletcher, Butler and Ryan

OPTION 3
McCourty and one of Fletcher, Butler and Ryan

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Yea, I think you pretty well nailed it for now.

As for Option 3 McCourty had 82 tackles, 7 interceptions, 1 sack and 2 forced fumbles and 17 passes defended his rookie season. Had Pro Bowl and All-Pro honors. In 2011 he was simply terrible. In 2012 there were injuries at free safety so McCourty was moved there out of necessity. The comment I remember from back then was they felt McCourty did better facing the QB then he did with his back to the QB. He excelled at FS and with the acquisition of Talib there was no reason to return him to CB. My understanding is in 2011 he was playing with no safety help on his side. I think he has the talent to play CB in zone coverage but really struggles in man to man coverage. If Belichick is confident in Harmon playing FS then Option 3 could be a viable option but I think the less likely one to be implemented.

I don't want him at CB. There is no other player on our team that has the same range in centerfield. He is a much better player when facing the QB than with his back turned.

The other thing is, I feel as though we're shifting our focus to pass rush (Disrupt timing) and this will allow our safeties to play more robber roles, freelance a bit. He is the wildcard. We can play 5 DBs and let him freelance. Disguise cover 0, 1, 3.

CB1: Fletcher
CB2: Butler
NB: Arrington

IMO, that is still our best combination. The key is McCourty protecting Fletcher over the top. We would have flexibility as well, being able to play man and zone.

Fletcher got torched constantly, but still had 22 PDs. McCourty may be the best deep ball defender in the NFL. With McCourty over the top, Fletcher could be a decent system CB1.

I also echo Kontra's thoughts. Moving McCourty to CB eliminates our ability to play man and weakens safety.

McCourty is an elite cover safety. We need him there now more than ever.

JMC00 said:

Well then we shouldn't even watch the season

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Or just not run crappy zone, no one on the team has even confirmed they're doing this nonsense.

A great safety can hide any weakness that a defense might have at corner. Look at our 2004 Championship team for instance. Our starting CB's were a second year Asante Samuel, and a UDFA Randell Gay, but Rodney Harrison leadership made it so it wasn't a complete disaster. We won a SB.

Not to mention, besides Chris McAllister early in his career, Ed Reed never played with a great CB, and I still argue Earl Thomas makes that Seattle secondary tick.

D-Mac has the range to cover up any flaws, not to mention he's a smart player going into his third full year into the position. Let's not knock this unit until we actually see its flaws.

mgteich said:

Is McCourty a viable option at corner? If we are to be primarily a zone defense, then McCourty, Fletcher and even Ryan are more valuable than in a man defense.

OPTION 1
2 of Fletcher, Butler and Ryan

OPTION 2
#1 from a trade and one of Fletcher, Butler and Ryan

OPTION 3
McCourty and one of Fletcher, Butler and Ryan

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The Pats played more man coverage last season. Quite a few pundits commented on that adjustment in the NE defense.

NO, Mcourty is not a good CB and that is why he had to moved to S.

Marqui said:

It doesn't really matter who the CBs are playing zone here. Zone is going to fail ultimately like it always has.

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Seattle has been the best defense over the last 3 years, with stats comparable to the 85 bears, and they've been a predominantly zone based defense... and with talent that they acquired in rounds 5 or later (with the exception of Earl Thomas)

JMC00 said:

Well then we shouldn't even watch the season

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No, but it sure was refreshing to watch a 2014 NE secondary that actually played defense.

mgteich said:

To be clear, you think that Fletcher AND Butler are better zone corners than McCourty?

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No. I think McCourty is the best safety on the team. I think McCourty is one of the best FS's in the NFL. I think moving McCourty to CB while losing Revis, Browner, and Dennard in the offseason essentially weakens two positions. I think moving McCourty to CB full time would be brain dead. And, finally, I think IF McCourty is moved to CB, it would only be a matter of time until he's moved back to safety.

JarOfMayo51 said:

Seattle has been the best defense over the last 3 years, with stats comparable to the 85 bears, and they've been a predominantly zone based defense... and with talent that they acquired in rounds 5 or later (with the exception of Earl Thomas)

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Oh ok, I feel better now

The Patriots don't play zone anywhere close to as well as SEA does. They suck at it (passing numbers were dead last in the league), that's why they stopped doing it.

JarOfMayo51 said:

Seattle has been the best defense over the last 3 years, with stats comparable to the 85 bears, and they've been a predominantly zone based defense... and with talent that they acquired in rounds 5 or later (with the exception of Earl Thomas)

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And Seattle just got tuned up by Brady in the Super Bowl. That said, they have a much better secondary than the Patriots currently have. The only position where they don't have an absolute landslide advantage back there is Thomas vs. McCourty. Remember what the likes of Ryan Fitzpatrick and Dan Orlovsky did to us when we were running a primarily zone-based scheme? Well, welcome back to that. A lot of people on this forum will just point to the fact that we won the game 38-32 but the fact of the matter is that this team always failed in the playoffs when they've had to go zone heavy because they didn't have the personnel to play man or mix it up.

BB has to have a trade up his sleeve.

No way can he think that this bunch can win a Championship.

Facts
1) In his sophomore year, McCourty was close to being the worst CB in the NFL
2) McCourty now has a safety's body designed to withstand head on contact, unlike CBs
3) Removing a top rated safety from games in order to field a player that failed at CB the first go around defies logic......weakening two positions .......doubt BB is even considering this suggested absurdity