Roger Goodell has no plans to apologize to Patriots if they’re cleared in Deflategate probe

Ivan said:

I disagree, I think the retroactive investigation will demonstrate just the opposite, and had they focused on the one game then the haters would have said that just because they got away with it for one game doesn't mean they weren't doing it all along. By going back and reviewing all games for years they will find that the Patriots never engaged in anything illegal the entire time and that even an exhaustive investigation couldn't find any evidence of wrongdoing. I understand the cynicism towers the league office and agree with it, however I think the Patriots wanted the Wells investigation because they didn't trust the league office and they will have complete access to Wells findings so that the league office won't be able to reinterpret them.

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To me, the question becomes whether there is an investigative cause to this delay or this is simply timing the release of the conclusions in the report. My cynical view is there will be very little of this report released, with the announced conclusions being "insufficient evidence of wrongdoing by the Patriots" and "an identified need going forward to insure compliance with procedures governing the handling and testing of game footballs." I cannot see the NFL front office releasing a full report that would be egg in the face if no wrongdoing is found, and I cannot see Kraft or the Patriots counted on full disclosure of an investigation that would serve to exonerate them after how Spygate went down.

Goody released the Browns, Falcons and Jets decisions before the draft. Frankly, nobody cared. This issue represents strong media attention, and may have distracted the public from the draft itself. Now, it can be released in the media dead zone pre-season, and serve as the topic discussion and renewed media focus after the draft, another media bonanza. No draft picks will be lost, because the NFL fans would accuse Goody of helping the Pats by delaying the release of the report findings until after the draft. The Pats will then become the NFL media and fan pinata with gusto based on the soft statement on the lack of evidence found and discussion of how they got away with it. To the rest of the NFL, the Pats are Lance Armstrong - always cheating but rarely getting caught.

Goody apologize? Won't happen, ever. He represents the NFL, and the NFL wants this. These scandals are the sweet nectar consumed by all the pitiful NFL fans and teams who need a concrete answer as to why the Pats keep winning while their teams suck consistently. Strange I think back to the Patsies era and do not recall doing the same. It was the team, the coaching, and the players. At this point, the louder the NFL fans bleat and whine about this, the happier I am. It means the Pats are still in title contention.

Spygate was a league office investigation, this one is not, Kraft will have full access to all of the findings.

farn said:

Maybe, Ivan. You have more faith than I - but I sure hope you are right.

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I don't have any faith in the league office, I have a great deal of faith on the truth, and IMO the Patriots never conspired to deflate game balls and a comprehensive investigation will show just that.

Joker said:

I just want five minutes alone with this garbage bag full of crapdell in a small locked room...you can use your imaginations....

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Or just watch one episode of Oz

There was a time not so long ago when I felt there was a reasonable chance the Pats would be exonerated and Grigson, maybe Harbaby, and Kensil would be skewered for a sting and set up operation. I now feel there is zero chance of that, even though I think that's what happened. Goodell is the most arrogant, ignorant narcissist you'll ever see. I find it ironic that all of the alleged scandals these days end in "gate", in reference to Watergate, and that irony is rooted in the fact that Roger Goodell is Richard Nixon incarnate.

Ivan said:

Spygate was a league office investigation, this one is not, Kraft will have full access to all of the findings.

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Exactly. This is what people don't seem to understand every time they talk about the Wells investigation as just the NFL doing what it usually does. This is different than any usual internal league investigation. This isn't like the Falcons and Browns punishments nor like the Jets tampering "investigation" that was just done in house. This is a real indepth look into what happened.

Ivan said:

I don't have any faith in the league office, I have a great deal of faith on the truth, and IMO the Patriots never conspired to deflate game balls and a comprehensive investigation will show just that.

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Ivan, I hope you're right with every fiber of my being. Unfortunately, I'm too jaded about this joke of a league to believe it'll happen. As great as NFL football is to watch and enjoy, the commissioner and front office are a freaking joke. They think we're all stupid, gullible yokels. And, in some sense, they're right.

VectorPrime said:

Exactly. This is what people don't seem to understand every time they talk about the Wells investigation as just the NFL doing what it usually does. This is different than any usual internal league investigation. This isn't like the Falcons and Browns punishments nor like the Jets tampering "investigation" that was just done in house. This is a real indepth look into what happened.

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Again - hope this is right. But I will continue to be weary as long as the current administration at the league office remains in place.

I think it should be emphasized that the Pats being totally exonerated doesn't require the league to address the fact that they were involved in setting them up in the first place. The Pats can be exonerated based on the fact that all the scientific and circumstantial evidence shows that they simply didn't do anything illegal. If the league wants to cover up the part that Kensil and co had in framing the Pats then that's disgusting but I can live with it as long as we get exonerated. It's not ideal at all, in fact its totally unjust that the league office might be able to skate on this, but as long as the Pats come out clean that's all I care about in the end. Also, the NFL will have a much easier time of downplaying their role in this if they are open about the Pats being innocent because Kraft and the team won't be inspired to go after them like they would if the team is unjustly punished. It's a win win in the end. Not the one we want but it's good enough.

VectorPrime said:

I think it should be emphasized that the Pats being totally exonerated doesn't require the league to address the fact that they were involved in setting them up in the first place. The Pats can be exonerated based on the fact that all the scientific and circumstantial evidence shows that they simply didn't do anything illegal. If the league wants to cover up the part that Kensil and co had in framing the Pats then that's disgusting but I can live with it as long as we get exonerated. It's not ideal at all, in fact its totally unjust that the league office might be able to skate on this, but as long as the Pats come out clean that's all I care about in the end. Also, the NFL will have a much easier time of downplaying their role in this if they are open about the Pats being innocent because Kraft and the team won't be inspired to go after them like they would if the team is unjustly punished. It's a win win in the end. Not the one we want but it's good enough.

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Won't Kraft have access to the report? If the league doesn't want to publicize Kensil et al's involvement then what is to stop Kraft from outing them?

I have my doubts that Kraft would. He certainly wouldn't have in 2007 but how about now?

The Gr8est said:

Won't Kraft have access to the report? If the league doesn't want to publicize Kensil et al's involvement then what is to stop Kraft from outing them?

I have my doubts that Kraft would. He certainly wouldn't have in 2007 but how about now?

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Not a chance Gr8est...

VectorPrime said:

I think it should be emphasized that the Pats being totally exonerated doesn't require the league to address the fact that they were involved in setting them up in the first place. The Pats can be exonerated based on the fact that all the scientific and circumstantial evidence shows that they simply didn't do anything illegal. If the league wants to cover up the part that Kensil and co had in framing the Pats then that's disgusting but I can live with it as long as we get exonerated. It's not ideal at all, in fact its totally unjust that the league office might be able to skate on this, but as long as the Pats come out clean that's all I care about in the end. Also, the NFL will have a much easier time of downplaying their role in this if they are open about the Pats being innocent because Kraft and the team won't be inspired to go after them like they would if the team is unjustly punished. It's a win win in the end. Not the one we want but it's good enough.

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Vector, I understand your point of view, but if we're exonerated and no one else is deemed culpable for anything, the world will scream, "Cheaters, cover-up! No one else does this stuff!". I want justice.

Ivan and Vector, I sincerely hope that you are right about truth winning out because I agree that the Pats did nothing wrong. However, I have a lot dimmer view of how the investigation was conducted and what if any access Kraft will have to the actual report. First, the investigation was conducted jointly by Pash of the league and Wells so its not truly independent. secondly, the client was the league not the owners and as the CEO of the league the report comes to Goodell to whom the owners have delegated authority. Consequently any access to the report is at Goodell's discretion and I hardly think he will release any information detrimental to him or the league office. I would not be surprised if the real powers in the league Mara and Rooney circle the wagons around Goodell like they did in the Camera placement incident and the Rice fiasco. In my opinion, the so-called Rice gate whitewash was more independent of the league office than this investigation with neither Goodell nor any one in the league office allegedly involved. Finally, Kraft has painted himself in a corner through his ongoing support of Goodell. Even excluding 2007. he was Goodell's first and most vocal supporter in the Rice fiasco in which he supported him without knowing the facts quite a contrast to his belated support of BB and Brady. Even after his demand for an apology, he made a subsequent statement of support for Goodell. Ofcourse we will have to wait for the results.

Ivan said:

Spygate was a league office investigation, this one is not, Kraft will have full access to all of the findings.

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Why are you so sure "Kraft will have full access to all the findings"? The league office is paying for this investigation and the league office (via Jeff Pash) is the co-leader of the investigation. That they hired an outside party (Wells) to assist them with the investigation doesn't make this not a league office investigation.

rlcarr said:

Why are you so sure "Kraft will have full access to all the findings"? The league office is paying for this investigation and the league office (via Jeff Pash) is the co-leader of the investigation. That they hired an outside party (Wells) to assist them with the investigation doesn't make this not a league office investigation.

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Because Kraft is an owner and they work for the owners. Anything else is that "we are punishing you but we are not going to show you the evidence we have against you" Your acting like the NFL is the gestapo.

patman52 said:

Because Kraft is an owner and they work for the owners. Anything else is that "we are punishing you but we are not going to show you the evidence we have against you" Your acting like the NFL is the gestapo.

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Ivan was the one implying that owners don't have full access to league office investigations: "Spygate was a league office investigation, this one is not, Kraft will have full access to all of the findings."

I'm asking why, if Kraft didn't have full access to the Cameragate investigation, we should think he will have full access to this one. It's being paid for and co-run by the league office, after all.

Goodell has said he will not apologize for investigating an accusation, which is the correct answer. It is his job to investigate the accusation. However, when the report comes out, if it is focussed on the NFL botching the investigation, and the leaks in the league office, that caused public opinion to have the Patriots guilty until proven innocent, solely because the leaks were wrong, then there will be something of an apology.

Deflategate is the stupidest story in the history of sports. The fact that Goodell has let this drag on so long further proves the fact that he is an idiot and the worst commish of all time.

rlcarr said:

Ivan was the one implying that owners don't have full access to league office investigations: "Spygate was a league office investigation, this one is not, Kraft will have full access to all of the findings."

I'm asking why, if Kraft didn't have full access to the Cameragate investigation, we should think he will have full access to this one. It's being paid for and co-run by the league office, after all.

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I fully believe that Kraft did have full access to the Cameragate investigation. The problem is that the "investigation" began and ended in the course of a couple days and then before Kraft could do anything about it Goodell threw down that crazy punishment. You have to remember, Goodell was a brand new commissioner. Kraft, and definitely Bill, probably didn't know what he was going to do. There is no way in hell they could have foreseen how big a deal Cameragate was going to be because the transgression was so minor and a common practice throughout the league. So they expected it to just be a small footnote and go away in a day, as it should have. So they didn't bother to fight it because well, they technically broke a rule, so why not just take the tiny slap on the wirst? But then Goodell went nuts on the Pats and we all know what happened next. By that time it was too late to stop it.

This time Kraft knows better.

VectorPrime said:

I fully believe that Kraft did have full access to the Cameragate investigation. The problem is that the "investigation" began and ended in the course of a couple days and then before Kraft could do anything about it Goodell threw down that crazy punishment. You have to remember, Goodell was a brand new commissioner. Kraft, and definitely Bill, probably didn't know what he was going to do. There is no way in hell they could have foreseen how big a deal Cameragate was going to be because the transgression was so minor and a common practice throughout the league. So they expected it to just be a small footnote and go away in a day, as it should have. So they didn't bother to fight it because well, they technically broke a rule, so why not just take the tiny slap on the wirst? But then Goodell went nuts on the Pats and we all know what happened next. By that time it was too late to stop it.

This time Kraft knows better.

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If Kraft did have full access to the Spygate investigation or report, then why has he withheld disclosure to this day? How does that benefit him when his brand, the Patriots, have their integrity questioned as a result of that investigation? If he were privy to the details of the investigation then he could simply have disclosed them in full and told the world what the NFL looked at and the basis for the sanctions. That would appear to be the prudent business response when someone claims your operations are illegal or unethical. The only rationale assumption that would foster silence is the Patriots gained a competitive advantage from the practice and thus Kraft did not want disclosure, and the rest of the NFL fans were correct. I don't buy that at all.

As for Wells's involvement, when I hire an investigator as an attorney I do not need to disclose his report generally. It is considered a work product, and that is in a world in which courts and rules may mandate disclosure to parties. I have seen nothing in statement or the media to suggest Wells is serving as some "special master" in investigating this problem for purposes of disclosing his investigation and all the findings for the world to see. I don't recall reports from the Falcons, Browns and Jets investigations recently (admittedly, there was no private investigator in those claims), so if I missed those and you can point them out to me then I would have a little more faith in the transparency of NFL investigations.

The NFL is mired in PR concerns, so I am a little hesitant to believe that the NFL would out the snitches, cry babies and frauds who raised this claim or identified non-Patriots-related improprieties in the course of this investigation. I truly hope you are right in your belief this is not some star chamber, but given the core concern of maintaining the NFL (not Patriots) brand, I obviously have my doubts.