Let me tell you about Jordan Richards

PatsFan2 said:

Pete Carroll has done fine job in Seattle too.

Click to expand...

I'll say.

Sherman- 5th round
Chancellor- 5th round
Maxwell- 6th round
Lane- 6th round

...and nailed Thomas in the 1st.

Pom-Pom Pete picked the trifecta at the Derby this weekend too.

Danger Zone said:

We had a year and a half of Collins sucks, is overrated, isn't a starting caliber LB comments etc.. but after a little wagging of the dog, we are being asked to believe their issue was never with Collins the player, just that Belichick was an idiot in where he drafted him.

This exemplifies my biggest complaint with the super vocal critics of everything Belichick does. It's NOT that you are criticizing someone that I think is infallible (he's not), its how tireless and snarky they are in bringing the topic up. We have to listen to their absolute authoritative condemnation of any particular move for months and years on end.. but at the first sign of a player turning it around and its...

... crickets.

The more vocal you are in criticizing Belichick and the more absolute you are in condemning him, the more the rest of us want a little pay back when you are wrong.

Click to expand...

Don't you know Belichick always does the wrong thing? He's lucky to have Brady who braught in the two players, Hightower and Butler, that stopped the Seahawks at the goal line. How did Brady do this? I have no idea, but i've read many times here that Belichick is a crappy GM and is lucky to have Brady and would be a nobody without him, so obviously Brady did it some how.

I've actually seen posters here, that seemed serious, who said that even if Richard becomes a hall of famer it will be a bad pick because we could have gotten him in the 4th round instead. Because according to this poster no team had Richard higher than a 5th rounder(please disregard the fact that by picking him in the second round a team(the patriots) obviously had him higher than a 5th rounder).

I can definitely agree that players can be picked too early. But if the player becomes very good, then you haven't picked him too early just because mock drafts had him later. Because it just takes on team to grab the player for him to be a X round player.

upstater1 said:

While I liked so many players ahead of Richards at that 64 slot (AJ Cann, Jaelen Strong, PJ Williams, David Johnson, Sammy Coates), I think it hasn't been remarked upon in this thread that Richards was slated as a 3rd rounder by many analysts up until a few weeks before the draft when he started dropping in the composites.

I imagine that once the "mockers" start to see a player drop, they then jump the bandwagon and the player really starts a slide. So I ask, what made the consensus believe he was a 3rd rounder only 3 or 4 weeks ago? Why did he become a 5th/6th rounder leading to the draft? Is it groupthink? We don't know. Similarly, Cody Prewitt was a composite first rounder. Then dropped to the 2nd round only a couple weeks before the draft, and right before the draft, he was end of 3rd round. Ended up undrafted.

I still don't like the Richards pick but we have to at least mention that he was considered as high as a 3rd rounder by a great deal of people only weeks before the draft.

Click to expand...

At it's core, there is no difference between a NFL draft prospect and a company's stock on NASDAQ.

Earnings release is good and market is still growing, stock goes up. Combine numbers or private workouts generate a positive buzz, NFL prospect's go up.

Same logic is applicable in reverse.

In the case for Richards, the Pats did not agree with the negative buzz, believed their own evaluation and came to the conclusion that his 2nd round grade was warranted and market (other teams) for him was still bullish.

upstater1 said:

While I liked so many players ahead of Richards at that 64 slot (AJ Cann, Jaelen Strong, PJ Williams, David Johnson, Sammy Coates), I think it hasn't been remarked upon in this thread that Richards was slated as a 3rd rounder by many analysts up until a few weeks before the draft when he started dropping in the composites.

I imagine that once the "mockers" start to see a player drop, they then jump the bandwagon and the player really starts a slide. So I ask, what made the consensus believe he was a 3rd rounder only 3 or 4 weeks ago? Why did he become a 5th/6th rounder leading to the draft? Is it groupthink? We don't know. Similarly, Cody Prewitt was a composite first rounder. Then dropped to the 2nd round only a couple weeks before the draft, and right before the draft, he was end of 3rd round. Ended up undrafted.

I still don't like the Richards pick but we have to at least mention that he was considered as high as a 3rd rounder by a great deal of people only weeks before the draft.

Click to expand...

From reading reports, it doesn't sound like Richards put all his eggs in the NFL basket pre-draft. Full class schedule at a tough school, academic all-american, etc.

The difference between a 4.5 and a 4.6 in the 40 is so miniscule that working with the right or wrong track trainer can greatly affect draft choice. Maybe Richards didn't have the combine numbers the underwear champions desired?

I wanted Cann, too - I red that he would be a ready-to-play LG day 1. I had no info on Mason. Now that I've read both, it seems like Cann is an athletically okay guy with great technique (kind of like Andrews), while Mason is a brawler.

I think I might prefer the brawler in our division, honestly. but it's a crap shoot and Cann might well have a long and great career.

Bostonian1962 said:

Thanks for posting. With all the draft info saying he was a 6th or 7th rounder, to pick him in round 2, is pathetic. Does anybody think he would not have been there in round 3 or 4, and if he wasn't, so what? I liked their first pick, and the rest of their draft, but his was beyond foolish. If he becomes a Hall of Famer, they still could have traded down, added picks, and still had him.

Click to expand...

You just never know what other teams were going to do. They felt for the pick that he could bring value to the team there. I really hope they're right this time!

Froob said:

Hmm this navy guy sounds exciting. A real long snapper, how about that? Hope they let him play but I'd understand if they don't.

Click to expand...

I don't think the navy or army has ever let someone play in the NFL while they still had service commitments.

I'm surprised they don't let guys make up those years after the nfl, because a) it allows them to secure a substantial amount of money that wouldn't be available in the "real world" and b) it would help market the military branches by having successful players who are playing in nationally televised games

JarOfMayo51 said:

I don't think the navy or army has ever let someone play in the NFL while they still had service commitments.

I'm surprised they don't let guys make up those years after the nfl, because a) it allows them to secure a substantial amount of money that wouldn't be available in the "real world" and b) it would help market the military branches by having successful players who are playing in nationally televised games

Click to expand...

Well they do spend a lot of time and money to train those guys. Maybe if they let them payback the training?

KontradictioN said:

I still hate where the pick was made and I still don't think he's going to have the athleticism to cover in space but the Pats did get very good value at the guard positions the following day so it's hard for me to hate the pick too much. I still wish the team would have done more at the CB position but I've resigned myself to the fact that this may be another situation like 2012 where the team has to make an in-season trade.

Click to expand...

We don't know anything more about the "value" of the Pats 4th round picks than we do about the "value" of their 2nd round pick. "Value" isn't even a real thing. It's a media hype concept. Not one single person in the front office of an NFL team will know what "value" they have gotten until the draft picks have been in (or out) of the league for a year or two.

"Value" at this point is simply comparing where players were drafted against some made-up ranking of college players by Mel Kiper or some other talking head. It's meaningless. You might as well compare the draft picks to characters in Disney movies...

hwc said:

We don't know anything more about the "value" of the Pats 4th round picks than we do about the "value" of their 2nd round pick. "Value" isn't even a real thing. It's a media hype concept. Not one single person in the front office of an NFL team will know what "value" they have gotten until the draft picks have been in (or out) of the league for a year or two.

"Value" at this point is simply comparing where players were drafted against some made-up ranking of college players by Mel Kiper or some other talking head. It's meaningless. You might as well compare the draft picks to characters in Disney movies...

Click to expand...

This makes no sense whatsoever. Further, the head coach disagrees with you. They assign value to every player, regardless of whether he's played a down in the NFL or not. In this instance, getting two prospects with higher grades than the round they were drafted in represents "value" in the draft. And say what you will about Kiper et al, but they do a better job of pegging how each round is going to fall than anyone on this board. Kiper, for example, predicted the Brown pick seconds before the Patriots made it. Why? Because he was the best value. Not saying Kiper's word is gold because God knows he's been wrong more times to count on one hand. Just using that pick as an example of value and how the Patriots saw it.

luuked said:

I guess most of those people that make fun of the Tavon Wilson selection made up their mind after the Seattle game in 2012. And it is not terribly surprising given that there still some idiots around here who think that DMac is an overvalued and overpayed safety. It is the NFL highlights / fantasy football generation.

Click to expand...

McCourty is the key to the pass defense, since he was moved to safety in 2012 the pass defense has been in the top half of the league. Revis and Talib received all the praise but the one consistent factor was McCourty.

Brady6 said:

McCourty is the key to the pass defense, since he was moved to safety in 2012 the pass defense has been in the top half of the league. Revis and Talib received all the praise but the one consistent factor was McCourty.

Click to expand...

Based on how much they just paid for him to be here over the next few years, BB would agree with you.

They don't get to the SB (or AFCCG) without him in 2011.

Marinlik said:

Don't you know Belichick always does the wrong thing? He's lucky to have Brady who braught in the two players, Hightower and Butler, that stopped the Seahawks at the goal line. How did Brady do this? I have no idea, but i've read many times here that Belichick is a crappy GM and is lucky to have Brady and would be a nobody without him, so obviously Brady did it some how.

I've actually seen posters here, that seemed serious, who said that even if Richard becomes a hall of famer it will be a bad pick because we could have gotten him in the 4th round instead. Because according to this poster no team had Richard higher than a 5th rounder(please disregard the fact that by picking him in the second round a team(the patriots) obviously had him higher than a 5th rounder).

I can definitely agree that players can be picked too early. But if the player becomes very good, then you haven't picked him too early just because mock drafts had him later. Because it just takes on team to grab the player for him to be a X round player.

Click to expand...

The converse is true also. I have seen Rats fans trying to defend the pick of Vernon. Gilson where they did since that is where he was rated.

News flash! Teams are allowed to do their own scouting and pick players where THEY think the proper value is.

You are never obligated to pick a bust just to go along with conventional thinking.

Bostonian1962 said:

Thanks for posting. With all the draft info saying he was a 6th or 7th rounder, to pick him in round 2, is pathetic. Does anybody think he would not have been there in round 3 or 4, and if he wasn't, so what? I liked their first pick, and the rest of their draft, but his was beyond foolish. If he becomes a Hall of Famer, they still could have traded down, added picks, and still had him.

Click to expand...

here we go again with the clairvoyant posts. Since you are all knowing and seeing tell me how the Pats are going to do this year? Seriously none of what you say in that post is anything but conjecture and speculation, sadly it doesn't even rise to level of opinion because it has no factual basis.

robertweathers said:

I'll say.

Sherman- 5th round
Chancellor- 5th round
Maxwell- 6th round
Lane- 6th round

...and nailed Thomas in the 1st.

Pom-Pom Pete picked the trifecta at the Derby this weekend too.

Click to expand...

Thats insane lol, created the Legion of Boom with day 3 picks!

supafly said:

I'm guessing that's exactly what Belichick was thinking, DZ--but who knows for sure?

Click to expand...

I heartedly concur in both comments.

McClusky said:

Comparatively to virtually any BB criticisms, I would say criticism of the Jordan Richards pick probably has the most justification. The fact that in the aftermath of Tavon Wilson and Duron Harmon we're still going to the safety well, and doing so in the typical conventional wisdom overdraft fashion, shows that the strategy hasn't worked the way BB has wanted it to. We as fans should be somewhat wary of going through it again.

This is coming from someone who is a fan of both Wilson and Harmon, and who thinks Richards has a place in the NFL as well.

Click to expand...

I guess I don't understand. Harmon is a FS. He is McCourty's backup. He has been our #3 safety. How is it that he hasn't worked out?

We need a backup SS to compete with Chung. If Chung performs as he did last year, Richards will probably be a backup SS. Why is that a poor result? Wilson is in his contract year. The draft is about 2016.

BOTTOM LINE
We have a good set of FOUR safeties. If Richards isn't ready for prime time once the season starts, Wilson will still be on the team as a backup SS. If Richards is ready, then Belichick will evaluate Wilson and Ebner as STO players.

hwc said:

We don't know anything more about the "value" of the Pats 4th round picks than we do about the "value" of their 2nd round pick. "Value" isn't even a real thing. It's a media hype concept. Not one single person in the front office of an NFL team will know what "value" they have gotten until the draft picks have been in (or out) of the league for a year or two.

"Value" at this point is simply comparing where players were drafted against some made-up ranking of college players by Mel Kiper or some other talking head. It's meaningless. You might as well compare the draft picks to characters in Disney movies...

Click to expand...

You are correct, of course.

It is very strange that you have a group of people trying to predict what another group of people will do, and when they disagree the one who did it was wrong because someone predicted incorrectly.

That's what this is. The people who make a living talking about the draft spend time trying to determine how NFL GMs feel about the players in the draft and predict where they will get picked.
Then when the actual experts make the picks, the media judges the quality of the pick based on how it compares to what the guy trying to guess what they would do thought. Its really bizarre when you think about it.
But then we have posters on this board who think that they have a better idea of how the Patriots should play defense than Bill Belichick, so stranger things have happened.

mgteich said:

I guess I don't understand. Harmon is a FS. He is McCourty's backup. He has been our #3 safety. How is it that he hasn't worked out?

We need a backup SS to compete with Chung. If Chung performs as he did last year, Richards will probably be a backup SS. Why is that a poor result? Wilson is in his contract year. The draft is about 2016.

BOTTOM LINE
We have a good set of FOUR safeties. If Richards isn't ready for prime time once the season starts, Wilson will still be on the team as a backup SS. If Richards is ready, then Belichick will evaluate Wilson and Ebner as STO players.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure how anyone didn't think Chung was the worst starter we put on the field last year. Don't really understand how people think there was not a need at his position.

AndyJohnson said:

I'm not sure how anyone didn't think Chung was the worst starter we put on the field last year. Don't really understand how people think there was not a need at his position.

Click to expand...

Perhaps folks were confused when Belichick extended his contract.

http://alendumonjic.com/2015/05/06/the-patriot-way-s-jordan-richards-impresses-with-intelligence/

Highlighting Richards' play vs Notre Dame in 2014.