* The Curse of Tavon Wilson, Part 3 ~ The Revenge!!! *

Ivan said:

Right on the money. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing when it makes someone feel they know everything.

I was waiting for the apoplexy and it don't disappoint?

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Yup, the reaction yesterday, whilst understandable, was ridiculous.

Ivan said:

Right on the money. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing when it makes someone feel they know everything.

I was waiting for the apoplexy and it don't disappoint?

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I hope the kid pans out, I just don't see it. And I watched a good amount of Stanford. He first caught my attention when he made that vicious hit in the Wisconsin game. I see a guy whose coverage skills leave a lot to be desired against WR's and RB's. FWIW, I said the same thing about the Wilson and Harmon picks.

Grid, what are your thoughts on today's draft choices?

PatriotReign said:

Grid, what are your thoughts on today's draft choices?

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Shaq Mason!!



I can only imagine how happy Brother Manx is about that one.

He and I ~ and many of us!! ~ seem to share a strong Affinity for Yellow Jackets, this Year!!

01 ~ I love picking Flowers!! See What I Did There?? GREAT Pick!! Gave'm a 1st/2nd Round Ranking!!

02 ~ Not thrilled about Jackson, but I thought it was a solid pick for a 4th Rounder. Coach D likes the enormous ones, and he certainly hit on Jackson's LineMate Stork, last Year, who I was not high on at all!!

03 ~ Delirious about Mason, of course. Gave'm a 2nd/3rd Round Ranking.

Of the rest, I have no Scouting Reports, though Derby and Roberts are Candidates for Post-Draft Scouting Reports over the next few weeks, based on positive Impressions I've got from what I've read.

KontradictioN said:

I hope the kid pans out, I just don't see it. And I watched a good amount of Stanford. He first caught my attention when he made that vicious hit in the Wisconsin game. I see a guy whose coverage skills leave a lot to be desired against WR's and RB's. FWIW, I said the same thing about the Wilson and Harmon picks.

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I think part of the equation is just how smart this kid is. The Patriots are a young team but most have multiple years in this defense and they are going to continue to make it more complex, so a safety stepping into it is going to need the ability to absorb information and adapt to it really fast. I understand the frustration when we believe there are better prospects available, however we aren't burdened by the big picture in terms of filling needs and building this seasons team to handle what they are facing week in week out, but Belichick is looking at their big board and where he wants to address different needs in the draft. I was puzzled by the pick but I really like them taking all of the intangibles info account when picking players because you are getting the person as well as the player and most time the person ultimately makes the player. Richards is as off the charts in terms of intangibles as Byron Jones was in terms of athleticism., and there is a good chance he will take to the coaching the way guys like Bruschi and Vrabel did and turn himself into a good pro.


Overall I thought they had a really good weekend, they replaced Wilfork, addressed OG with two good prospects, added competition at DE and athleticism at LB. The late picks were interesting and have some upside if they pan out. I would have loved a top CB as well but you can't have everything. Good draft imo.

Honestly we have seen this type of pick happen many times. Sometimes we end up with a Sebastian Vollmer, a Rob Gronkowski or a Jamie Collins in round 2. Somtimes we got a Ras-I Dowling , a Jermaine Cunningham, or a Darius Butler. We bat about 50/50 on 2nd round picks. I'm not going to pull out my hair, but rather just wait and see how the pick turns out. Knee-jerk reactions are so in these days.

Malcolm Brown was an awesome 1st round pick. But we get one unknown guy in round 2, and people start screaming bloody murder. LOL

VJCPatriot said:

Malcolm Brown was an awesome 1st round pick. But we get one unknown guy in round 2, and people start screaming bloody murder. LOL

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There are TWO parts of good drafting.
1) Rate players well with regard to the value to the team
2) Understand how other rate all players so that we can know when to draft a player

EXAMPLE FROM THE PAST
We have Collins rated as a mid 1st round pick. This meets #1.
We know that almost all others have Collins as a mid second or lower. This meets #2.
CONCLUSION: pass on Collins in the 1st and trade down.

EXAMPLE FROM FRIDAY
1) We have Richards with a 2nd round value, and Grissom with a 3rd round value.
2) We understand that Richards is rated no higher than 3rd by anyone else, and Grissom is rated at no higher than 5th.
3) CONCLUSION 1: Trade down or pick your highest rated player at another position.

I UNDERSTAND
that I would have felt much better with
64 Jackson
97 Flowers
101 Richards
111 Mason
131 Grissom

BOTTOM LINE QUESTION
Did Belichick really think that someone else might draft Richards in the 2nd or 3rd round? If he didn't, he simply wasted draft value. The same question is relevant to Grissom at 97. These two players are clearly very highly valued by Belichick. We should celebrate the fact that we have the players that Belichick wants. HOWEVER, is it really reasonable to believe that belichick could not have gotten better value at SOME position if he had drafted these two a bit later.

BOTTOM LINE ANSWER
The draft was so poor that Belichick got everyone left on his draft board at 64. As I watched the choices after 60, I think that this is a distinct possibility. Even IF THIS WERE SO, I would think that Jackson should have been drafted at 64, and Richards at 111. With regard to Grissom, apparently Belichick viewed him as the best OLB available and wanted help at that position.

After all, others considered our 7th rounders to be better prospects than our Friday picks.

It's quite simple, really: Many Fans are simply letting their Medulla Oblongata do the Driving.

01 ~ Either Mad Bill does everything wrong.
02 ~ Or Mad Bill does nothing wrong.

There is a Middle Ground, Fools.

01 ~ Even Geniuses routinely make plenty of Mistakes, folks. Mad Bill proves that every Year, I believe.

02 ~ It's perfectly reasonable to venerate the man and yet harshly criticize his occasional Blunders.

I think the national guys don't understand what BB is looking for. I think he looks at what players can do. Does that skill fit into his system? You're on board if it does. If it doesn't, he just ain't taking you. It seems most scouts are looking for the perfect draft pick. Match his workout results and mix in his size and game film and try to project him to an all-pro. I don't think we do a lot of projecting. That's why he likes the big school guys and certain body types and speed requirements. He's looking at what you do well. If you do it well and have the size/speed, then we're interested. Many people look at what you should be able to do because you have the size/speed. Figure they can teach you. And, work with you. Even if you are defficient at something.

VJCPatriot said:

Honestly we have seen this type of pick happen many times.

Sometimes we end up with a Sebastian Vollmer, a Rob Gronkowski or a Jamie Collins in round 2. Somtimes we got a Ras-I Dowling , a Jermaine Cunningham, or a Darius Butler. We bat about 50/50 on 2nd round picks. I'm not going to pull out my hair, but rather just wait and see how the pick turns out.

Knee-jerk reactions are so in these days.

Malcolm Brown was an awesome 1st round pick. But we get one unknown guy in round 2, and people start screaming bloody murder. LOL

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I assume that you're referring to the WTF Aspect, but the Picks you list are of two very divergent Types:

I hadn't really been doing this intensely until 2011, having arrived at this Obsession late in 2010, so I can't speak to previous Years. But I can tell you that I hated the Dowling Pick, hated the Infamous Tavon Wilson Pick, loved the Jamie Collins Pick ~ Full Credit to MayoClinic for his Powers of Persuasion on that one!! ~ and hated the Dobson Pick. And I've been pretty Loud & Clear about my Opinions.

I don't count Shifty Shane Vereen, who wasn't a WTF Pick, or Jimmy Garoppolo, who's only had 1 Year.

So of the 2nd Rounders who've had enough time to tell, I:

Hated these WTF Picks

Ras I Dowling
Tavon Wilson
Aaron Dobson

Loved this WTF Pick

Jamie Collins

01 ~ Maybe some of us aren't overreacting.
02 ~ Maybe some of us have a Clue.

Man... Wilson gets a lot of crap despite making the roster each year and contributing on D and ST for a team with strong depth at DB. Not all 2nd rounders turn into All World pros like Gronkowski and Collins, and Wilson doesn't seem to have that kind of ceiling. But he certainly has been significantly better than Dowling and Wheatley and the other DBs who were true busts for the Pats. Wilson makes plays and has a serious role on the team, and I am never nervous or ashamed when he's on the field. But somehow he's become the poster child for "I told you so" mock GMs to scorch Belichick.

We should really pick a different player to name a curse for, who has actually screwed the team by being drafted.

Off The Grid said:

There is a Middle Ground, Fools.

01 ~ Even Geniuses routinely make plenty of Mistakes, folks. Mad Bill proves that every Year, I believe.

02 ~ It's perfectly reasonable to venerate the man and yet harshly criticize his occasional Blunders.

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I think few would disagree with this. But it does take a special kind of ego to know, in unambiguous terms, which of Belichick's decisions were idiocy and which were brilliant after about 30 minutes of (at best) semi-informed speculation. Anyone can throw darts and congratulate themselves on being smarter than Belichick.

Off The Grid said:

It's quite simple, really: Many Fans are simply letting their Medulla Oblongata do the Driving.

01 ~ Either Mad Bill does everything wrong.
02 ~ Or Mad Bill does nothing wrong.

There is a Middle Ground, Fools.

01 ~ Even Geniuses routinely make plenty of Mistakes, folks. Mad Bill proves that every Year, I believe.

02 ~ It's perfectly reasonable to venerate the man and yet harshly criticize his occasional Blunders.

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rookBoston said:

But it does take a special kind of ego to know, in unambiguous terms, which of Belichick's decisions were idiocy and which were brilliant after about 30 minutes of (at best) semi-informed speculation. Anyone can throw darts and congratulate themselves on being smarter than Belichick.

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*I can't imagine what part of "I believe" translates to "unambiguous" in your fevered Imagination.

Lying in itself is disgusting enough. But when you pathetically attempt to transmogrify "I believe" ~ which is universally understood to mean "in my opinion" ~ into an "unambiguous" Declaration, you are attempting to lie about another's Words ~ mine ~ which is not only disgusting but contemptibly vile.

01 ~ I shared my Opinion, that's all. I like Tavon Wilson.

02 ~ It was the cataclysmically stupid Decision to spend #48 on'm that I objected to, then and now.

Just because you are evidently incapable of producing better than "semi-informed Speculation" doesn't mean that others don't perform a little Research before sharing their Opinions.

If that embarrasses you or humiliates or offends you, I don't give a Rat's Ass.

01 ~ Time will tell, but Tavon Wilson is well on the way to proving that spending a 2nd Rounder on'm was an astonishingly idiotic Move by Mad Bill, and that those of us who called it a Mistake ~ most emphatically including me, who decried the Move in a loud, braying voice ~ made a better Call than Mad Bill, himself.

02 ~ Yes. It's true. Mad Bill phucked up.

03 ~ It wasn't the first time.

04 ~ It won't be the last.

05 ~ And guess what? It still doesn't mean that he isn't a Genius.

06 ~ And it still doesn't mean that he isn't The Greatest Thing To Ever Happen to New EngLand Sports.

07 ~ He's Human. He isn't perfect.

08 ~ He makes Mistakes.

09 ~ I suggest that you and the rest of the "In Bill We Trust" Zombies try to find some way to Get Over It.

10 ~ The Great Ones make Mistakes...They always have.

11 ~ But that makes them no less Great.

12 ~ But your pathetic insistence on immersing yourself in this sick, depraved Fantasy where Greatness equals Perfection ~ and attacking those like me who possess the Integrity to point out Mistakes when they happen, while still loudly admiring those who make them ~ is disgusting. And it is reprehensible.

mgteich said:

There are TWO parts of good drafting.
1) Rate players well with regard to the value to the team
2) Understand how other rate all players so that we can know when to draft a player

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Either BB doesn't value #2 as much as you and most of the experts, media, and posters do, or he has inside info about other teams probabilities that none in that group have.

Ivan said:

I think part of the equation is just how smart this kid is. The Patriots are a young team but most have multiple years in this defense and they are going to continue to make it more complex, so a safety stepping into it is going to need the ability to absorb information and adapt to it really fast. I understand the frustration when we believe there are better prospects available, however we aren't burdened by the big picture in terms of filling needs and building this seasons team to handle what they are facing week in week out, but Belichick is looking at their big board and where he wants to address different needs in the draft. I was puzzled by the pick but I really like them taking all of the intangibles info account when picking players because you are getting the person as well as the player and most time the person ultimately makes the player. Richards is as off the charts in terms of intangibles as Byron Jones was in terms of athleticism., and there is a good chance he will take to the coaching the way guys like Bruschi and Vrabel did and turn himself into a good pro.


Overall I thought they had a really good weekend, they replaced Wilfork, addressed OG with two good prospects, added competition at DE and athleticism at LB. The late picks were interesting and have some upside if they pan out. I would have loved a top CB as well but you can't have everything. Good draft imo.

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Yeah, it's hard for me to complain too much about the draft. Going in, I wanted them to address/fix DT, OG, CB, S, WR, and RB. They certainly appear to have done a number at DT and OG. They also drafted a very raw TE with nice athleticism and size and he could develop into something down the line as well. They must either feel very comfortable at CB or just simply didn't like this year's crop because they had opportunities to address that position as well. All in all, I hate the selection of Richards where it was made but it's hard for me to get overly pissed off about it considering they got excellent value in Jackson and Mason the next day.

My redraft.

1. Love the Malcom Brown pick. DT and CB were my top 2 priorities.

2. Hated it. Give me Tevin Coleman. Didn't like the corners here.

3. Love the trade back.

3. S. Nelson - CB instead of G. Grissom

4. T. Flowers - DE - Always need pass rushers fine.

4. T. Jackson - G - Need a g. I might have went for J. Douglas. Have to trust Scar here.

4. S. Mason - G - Boogity, boogity, boogity!

5. Kenny Bell - WR - Don't trade back. And, don't take a GD long-snapper.

6. M. Wells - OLB - Seems like a good pick. Don't know a lot about him.

6. A. Chickillo - DE - Basically, another pass-rusher instead of Grissom

7. Didn't trade back from 5

7. D. Roberts - CB - Again. Seems like a really good pick.

Basically , I'm taking Coleman/Nelson/Bell instead of Richards/Grissom/Derby/Navy guy. I didn't see a big need for a TE or SS.

Grid, if anyone ever tries to transmogrify you again you let me know, I'll take care of them for you..................

KontradictioN said:

Yeah, it's hard for me to complain too much about the draft. Going in, I wanted them to address/fix DT, OG, CB, S, WR, and RB. They certainly appear to have done a number at DT and OG. They also drafted a very raw TE with nice athleticism and size and he could develop into something down the line as well. They must either feel very comfortable at CB or just simply didn't like this year's crop because they had opportunities to address that position as well. All in all, I hate the selection of Richards where it was made but it's hard for me to get overly pissed off about it considering they got excellent value in Jackson and Mason the next day.

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Kontra, I agree with you on their draft as a whole and I have come to the conclusion that there is only one answer to the second round, stop watching it. I DVRed it and still went WTF, however I honestly believe the reason we are always surprised is that the Partriots draft board looks radically different than ours or most other teams for that
matter. And I don't consider their second rounders reaches because they still seem to get the players they target in the mid rounds which tells me he has a good idea of who is going to go when. We don't get it but they have better knowledge of actual team boards and who has risen or fallen. That doesn't, however mean that I'm not let going WTF because pretty much every year I am in the second round, unless they trade up.

Off The Grid said:

We still got folks defending the Tavon Wilson Pick, hereabouts!!

Can't wait to watch this Story unfold over the next few Years!!

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I'll sign up as a Tavon Wlson defender. He had more snaps and tackles, as a ST maven than Salter did last year, and more than anyone else. How many other picks are still on the roster of a two time Super Bowl participant over the years of his career?

He might never be the the starter BB hoped to get, but he isn't a big bust, by a long shot either. Continuing and harping on him is like complaining about the horses running free, long after the the barn door was left open.

BB knows that he needs a field general in his secondary, just as much as under center. Richards is an obvious attempt to get one.

Off The Grid said:

It's quite simple, really: Many Fans are simply letting their Medulla Oblongata do the Driving.

01 ~ Either Mad Bill does everything wrong.
02 ~ Or Mad Bill does nothing wrong.

There is a Middle Ground, Fools.

01 ~ Even Geniuses routinely make plenty of Mistakes, folks. Mad Bill proves that every Year, I believe.

02 ~ It's perfectly reasonable to venerate the man and yet harshly criticize his occasional Blunders.

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I can easily agree with that sentiment.