Your thoughts on Patriots cornerback strategy in the draft...

JoeSixPat said:

Well, it's not like they're leaving WRs uncovered.
Expect Belichick to also be examining trades or the waiver wire as veterans and others are cut from camp
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CB is the most coveted position in the NFL and there is no harder position to fill. It is harder to fill than QB. Since when was a good CB available on the waiver wire? Like never. Trades (with the exception of the Talib trade) for quality are expensive. There has been a rumor of a trade for Joe Haden, but I would think it would cost Garoppolo plus a first, ouch.

robertweathers said:

I'm drinking the Kool-Aide on this kid big time. He's making this team.

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That makes two of us.

FredFromDartmouth said:

CB is the most coveted position in the NFL and there is no harder position to fill. It is harder to fill than QB. Since when was a good CB available on the waiver wire? Like never. Trades (with the exception of the Talib trade) for quality are expensive. There has been a rumor of a trade for Joe Haden, but I would think it would cost Garoppolo plus a first, ouch.

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Haden would take more than just Jimmy G and a 1st plus you have to find the cap space. In all honesty, I'm more curious than anything about the Pats D next season. The personnel seems more akin to the roster in the early 2000 than anything we've seen in a while but we have much greater athleticism in LB core and greater speed in the DL.

An average CB core backed by above avg safeties (think more C2) plus potent front 7 that can switch between 3-4 to 5-2 at any given time. The biggest concern has been stopping the run and getting off the field on 3rd down and this defense looks like it has those two abilities.

I dont think the cb roster as stands is complete. I expect a move.

Its May. 4 months until season starts.

I just put the crystal ball/crack pipe down and state publically that come Thanksgiving, Butler and Douglas are seeing starter-snaps as outside CBs.

FredFromDartmouth said:

CB is the most coveted position in the NFL and there is no harder position to fill. It is harder to fill than QB. Since when was a good CB available on the waiver wire? Like never. Trades (with the exception of the Talib trade) for quality are expensive. There has been a rumor of a trade for Joe Haden, but I would think it would cost Garoppolo plus a first, ouch.

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Both great CBs and great QBs are equally hard to find. A handful of teams have elite QBs and legit shots at the SB every season. You can get to a SB without great CBs.

I see the 2015 NE CB position like NT in 2003. The Pats will go into camp and evaluate what they have and see if they think its good enough. If not, like 2003 NT, BB could pull a trade for a VET CB who can step in and contribute immediately.

We lost Revis and Browner. So we're not going to be the same type of defense again. BB is retooling and it looks like he is focusing on getting pressure on the QB with a stacked DL, and playing more zone coverage that can take advantage of pressured/inaccurate passes.

If the talent was there, I think we would have made a move for a top rated CB, but obviously, we didn't feel the CBs out there were either A) good enough or B) would fit the new direction of the defense. I'm ok with going in a different direction, and stacking up the DL/pass rushing talent.

Once Peters, Waynes and Johnson had gone I don't think there was any CB who could have come in and started on D this year. I didn't see a plug and play corner at 32 or lower.

The second issue is that the Pats were missing a No 1 corner but they have pretty good depth. A 2nd-3rd round corner isn't going to solve their problems. I bet if you looked at the Patriots draft board they didn't have any of the corners available at 32 onwards ranked higher than Ryan, Dennard, Arrington, Butler etc.

What I'd be looking at is a veteran cut or trade. Last year saw Brandon Flowers cut late if I recall. There will no doubt be others this year.

I also happen to quite like Darryl Roberts. He won't start early on but he could contribute late ala Butler. I wouldn't rule him out yet. He's also, unlike McCain, more of a boundary CB. Got good length, speed and physicality.

Apparently, Belichick didn't have a high rating for any corners available at 64 or later. The alternative is that Belichick didn't think that any would be competitive with Dennard, Ryan, McClain, Chekwa and Green. He certainly didn't see any corners competitive with our mighty top three of Butler, Fletcher and Arrington.

Seriously, pc wrote about this before the draft. There were a few top corners, and after that, there were no prospects better than what we have. We all had our favorites. Perhaps Roberts will be the patsfans binky for a couple of months.

VJCPatriot said:

We lost Revis and Browner. So we're not going to be the same type of defense again. BB is retooling and it looks like he is focusing on getting pressure on the QB with a stacked DL, and playing more zone coverage that can take advantage of pressured/inaccurate passes.

If the talent was there, I think we would have made a move for a top rated CB, but obviously, we didn't feel the CBs out there were either A) good enough or B) would fit the new direction of the defense. I'm ok with going in a different direction, and stacking up the DL/pass rushing talent.

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While the Pats have no one with Revis or Browser's ability. I wouldn't quite say just yet that they won't play press coverage. Still time to figure out if the talent can play the scheme and the pass rush has teeth.

FredFromDartmouth said:

CB is the most coveted position in the NFL and there is no harder position to fill. It is harder to fill than QB.

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I don't understand why you have to take everything to a ridiculous extreme. Yes, cornerbacks are important. Say that and it's an accurate thing. I'd agree with it. But no, you have to always take it to the extreme edge one way or another. To say they're more coveted or more difficult to fill than QBs is just ridiculous. If you honestly believe that, you're the only person in the world who does.

Revis helped us win a Super Bowl. Sherman helped the Seahawks win one last year. So a shutdown corner is a big want for teams lately. Then again, Revis never made it to a single Super Bowl without Brady. Talib didn't even make the play-offs until he started playing with Brady and Manning. Haden hasn't been to the play-offs. Peterson, Grimes, Verner, none of those guys have gotten close because they have ****ty QBs. Even when you paired up two great corners in Revis and Cromartie, they couldn't get to the Super Bowl.

But the Ravens can WIN one while starting Cary Williams and Corey Graham after Webb got hurt because Joe Flacco played out of his mind. The Giants have won two unfortunately with Corey Webster and Aaron Ross in 2011, and Ross with Sam Madison in 2007 but they had Eli and a massive dozen ****ing horseshoes up their asses. The 2010 Packers had a Pro Bowl season out of Tramon Williams, who had been unheralded up to that point but they had some guy named Aaron Rodgers. The 2009 Saints won with a mishmash of starts from Randall Gay, Malcolm Jenkins, Jabari Greer, and Tracy Porter, with only Porter starting more than half the games in the season, but some guy named Drew Brees.

From 2007 to present meanwhile, Revis played on teams that went 44-51 without a Pro Bowl QB. The Patriots went 13-3 with a terrible secondary in 2011, 12-4 after adding a Pro Bowler halfway through the season in Talib, and 12-4 with Revis replacing Talib. Talib went 22-34 before playing with Brady and Manning. You don't even need an elite QB, just someone decent. Patrick Peterson's teams are 19-23 without Carson Palmer, 15-7 with. Meanwhile Joe Haden is 25-47, having never played with a decent QB.

I know, cornerbacks don't get judged by win/loss records for a reason, and the reason is because they don't affect the game the way an elite QB does. If I have to choose between Brady or Revis, I choose Brady 1 million times out of 1 million. If I have to choose Luck over Revis, I do so as well, simply because it's easier to win with an elite QB than an elite corner.

Cornerback Tarell Brown is still on the market.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4317/tarell-brown

FredFromDartmouth said:

What development of Ryan? There is no more development of Ryan; he has gone as far as he can. The Patriots have 2 CBs....

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Oh crap!

Does BB know?

Bonzo said:

They don't need to be satisfied with their current roster of corners to not like any of the available alternatives.

The strategy seems pretty clear: compensate for any deficiencies in the secondary with a hellacious front 7.

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You can wish all you want but when the selection box for CBs is below what you have, using a draft pick only means you haven't addressed some other need. And that you will still have to address the problem again.

IMHO there were two ways to address the rising Defensive lines and Defenses of their AFCE competitors.

Plan A. Improve the Offense and outscore them anyway.
Plan B. Match their improved Defenses. If not in the secondary. then in the front 7.

I would have chosen Plan A. That would have been a totally Offensive Oriented Draft with high picks for Offensive Linemen, and RBs and perhaps a WR as well.

But BB apparently chose Plan B as his Strategy.

His LB corps is near the league's best,already. I don't know whether the lack of CB talent in the Draft or his feeling that he had several good CBs if not stars already, and they could be adequate. Having Malcom Brown fall to the Pats helped. That solidified the Front 4. Then he added DEs and OLB/DEs to increases thetalent of th ereserves. And even gambled with a selecting a Safety QB-type high, and a CB low, while selecting ST defenders too.

AzPatsFan said:

You can wish all you want but when the selction box fro CBs si below watyou have using a draft pick only means you haven't addressed some other need. And thtat you will stil have to address the problem agasin.

IMHO there were two ways to address the ising Defensive lines and Defenses of their AFCE competitors.
Plan A. Improve the Offesne and outscore them anyway.
Plan B. Match their improved Defenses. If not in the secondary in the front 7.

I would have chosen Plan A. That would have been a totally Offense Oriented Draft with high picks for Offensive linemen, and RBs and perhaps a WR, as well.

But BB apparently chose Plan B as his Strategy.

His LB corps hais near the league's best alI don't know whether the lack of CB talent in the Draft or his feeling that he had several good CBs if not stars already, and they could be adequate. Having Malcom Brown fall to the Pats helped. That solidified the Front 4. Then he added DEs and OLB/DEs. And even gambled with a Safety QB-type, high, and a CB low, while selecting ST defenders too

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If the PLAN was to improve the defense, then I would suggest that there might have been better choices at 64 and 97 than the players we picked. Most of us would have preferred a reach at 64 for a corner, rather than for a special teamer.

FredFromDartmouth said:

CB is the most coveted position in the NFL and there is no harder position to fill. It is harder to fill than QB. Since when was a good CB available on the waiver wire? Like never. Trades (with the exception of the Talib trade) for quality are expensive. There has been a rumor of a trade for Joe Haden, but I would think it would cost Garoppolo plus a first, ouch.

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I think you just made the case for not expending draft picks, especially high draft picks, on this position.

4 CBs were gone by the time the Pats were picking. There were some other prospects available but I think Malcom Brown's availability was too much to pass up. There's a lot of Chris Canty's out there (pre-Super Bowl fans will remember that name)

Bobs My Uncle said:

I thought finding a replacement for Chung was a critical need and, hopefully, they found the answer in Richards.

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replacement for chung? they just extended his contract. what am i missing?

FredFromDartmouth said:

CB is the most coveted position in the NFL and there is no harder position to fill. It is harder to fill than QB.

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I think you over-estimate the value of marquee names at CB and under-estimate Belichick and his ability to re-invent his Defense using unconventional means and players

Ask Troy Brown if he thinks the Patriots can be a Super Bowl winning team even if the team needs to have WRs play CB

Additionally, consider your contention that QB is the hardest position to fill - thus like CB teams should make QB a priority in the draft.

So why were only 7 QBs taken in the entire draft?

So again, I think you made a strong case as to why Belichick's choice not to expend draft picks on CBs he didn't think had an NFL future, just like the 25 teams who passed on a QB in the draft entirely, was a wise one

mgteich said:

If the PLAN was to improve the defense, then I would suggest that there might have been better choices at 64 and 97 than the players we picked. Most of us would have preferred a reach at 64 for a corner, rather than for a special teamer.

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There were other choices indeed. Whether or not they were better, remains to be seen.

captain insano said:

replacement for chung? they just extended his contract. what am i missing?

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You have not missed anything. I just happen to believe that Chung is one of the weakest current starters on this team and can be improved upon. I expect Richards was drafted to take over.