Hightower's 5th year option picked up. Jones' likely to be next.

VectorPrime said:

Hightower will be 2nd all-pro this season

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His shoulder injury is really nasty and o really don't see him back at full form before the end of October, if even by then. Love the player and I'm really happy they are keeping him around, great pick, winner.

If I'm not mistaken the Patriots only have one player on each side of the ball over 30. Losing Revis sucks but when you look at their defense and the young talent on it then it's easy to come to the conclusion that this could be a much better defense despite losing the starting CB's. They have many questions to answer but if most come up positively they could end up with an excellent defense. Chandler Jones and Dominique Early need to produce big time on their DL and both Hightower and Collins look ready to break out in the near future. In the secondary McCourty is going to have to play lights out but if those young DBs take the next step they could make their defense complete. It may be a lot to hope for but given the age of their defense and the experience they have together it's not a reach to believe that many will pan out and the team will take another step towards getting better.

robertweathers said:

What are your concerns?

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I kinda see TBR's point on Jones' iffy production. I dont know bc/ First I would love to finally see what he can do in a healthy 3 man rotation with Sheard and Nink - as others teams similarly rotate players at this position. One of BB's few questionable decisions (IMO) the past couple seasons was having only Jones and Nink running for nearly 100% of game snaps when available. This must have had a serious negative impact on their production as the game (season) wore on. How could it not? It's actually kinda impressive that they put up those numbers at all. Don't most DE's in the NFL play well below that % number of plays? So aren't we then comparing them to more rested players on a play by play level. I really think giving Jones and Nink (and Sheard hopefully) a snap or two of rest during the game will really ramp up their play. BB might have identified this as well.

patfanken said:

This can't possibly be true. I have been told many times by "knowledgeable" people here that he was a total bust his rookie year, and not much better the next. They explained to me that players never improve from your first impression. That when they have to undergo position changes they should just instantaneously adapt.

I'm fairly certain that very shortly these very same geniuses are going to begin to tell me that Chandler Jones is a mere shadow of his promise, and because he brother got into trouble, he has become a character issue.

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I don't think anyone ever said anything like that. But thanks for your help.

Hightower's 2015 number of $7.75 million and Mayo's 2016 new money figure of ~$8 million are pretty similar. Note that Mayo doesn't need to be paid that until the 2015 season has been played out.

If Revis were signed to the numbers he wanted, would this have been possible???

Need to figure out Gostkowski soon.. he is on the short list.

Fencer said:

Hightower's 2015 number of $7.75 million and Mayo's 2016 new money figure of ~$8 million are pretty similar.

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Did you mean HTs 2016 #? Not sure why it's interesting that their monies are similar?

Fencer said:

Note that Mayo doesn't need to be paid that until the 2015 season has been played out.

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Are you referring to the $1.8m in playing time incentives?

JayNM said:

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 4m4 minutes ago
Also on the fifth-year option front, the Patriots will extend LB Dont'a Hightower for another season, per source.
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He was a no-brainer. He has improved immensely since his rookie year.

Jones still hasn't reached his full potential, yet. Although already good, i believe he could be elite

EDIT: Now with a proper (PFT) link:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/29/pats-to-extend-hightowers-deal-for-a-fifth-year/

it is also said here: "The Patriots also are likely to pick up the fifth-year option for defensive end Chandler Jones, the 21st pick in 2012."

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I agree with you, but 7m is not absurd for his production. I will be shocked if they dont pick Chandlers fith year option.

patfanken said:

This can't possibly be true. I have been told many times by "knowledgeable" people here that he was a total bust his rookie year, and not much better the next. They explained to me that players never improve from your first impression. That when they have to undergo position changes they should just instantaneously adapt.

I'm fairly certain that very shortly these very same geniuses are going to begin to tell me that Chandler Jones is a mere shadow of his promise, and because he brother got into trouble, he has become a character issue.

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I am not one of the two people you are referencing, but at the risk of incurring your snark, I feel that Jones would do well to up his game a bit in order to justify $8 million. He still strikes me as an extremely talented player who has a much higher ceiling, consistency-wise. He flashes brilliant at times.

Hightower is a far more consistent player who, very early on, had to take over the play calling in his second year when Mayo went down. Last year he played terrific with one arm.

Hightower has already proven that he deserves the money.

My hope is that CJ will also.

Marinlik said:

Before the 2014 season I was a bit on the edge of whether we should pick up his 5th year option. He wasn't bad before, but the option isn't exactly cheap. But already after the first game against the Dolphins he showed that it was an absolute no brainer.

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You were a lot better than I was. I thought we should have moved him to DE. But, that said, what the Patriots had in the secondary allowed the defense to be a lot more exotic and aggressive than it was before. It will be interesting to see if Hightower can repeat his 2014 performance. I originally had very high hopes for him coming out of college, lost them a bit in 2012 and 2013, and 2014 gave me that hope for him again.

KontradictioN said:

You were a lot better than I was. I thought we should have moved him to DE. But, that said, what the Patriots had in the secondary allowed the defense to be a lot more exotic and aggressive than it was before. It will be interesting to see if Hightower can repeat his 2014 performance. I originally had very high hopes for him coming out of college, lost them a bit in 2012 and 2013, and 2014 gave me that hope for him again.

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I think he got pretty good in the end of the 2013 season. My biggest problem with him before the end of 2013 was that he often took too long time to read plays and react on them. It looked a bit like he didn't trust his instincts. He didn't go the wrong way or anything like that. He just waited longer than he needed to before moving towards the ball, even when looking towards the ball carrier. Like he wanted to be absolutely 100% sure of who had the ball and where it was going, instead of trusting his tape study and instincts saying that the play where going where he thought it was. Then as the year went on he started reacting much faster which made him meet the ball carrier earlier and with more force.

shmessy said:

At the risk of incurring your snark, I feel that Jones would do well to up his game a bit in order to justify $8 million. He still strikes me as an extremely talented player who has a much higher ceiling, consistency-wise. He flashes brilliant at times.

Hightower is a far more consistent player who, very early on, had to take over the play calling in his second year when Mayo went down. Last year he played terrific with one arm.

Hightower has already proven that he deserves the money.

My hope is that CJ will also.

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No snark incurred - No player is above criticism. It's more about what kind of criticism is given. Lots of time its more a personal attack or something dismissive ("he sucks", " he's a bum, or bust"

The fact is there are a number of things I'm hoping to see from Chandler that we haven't seen from him in his first 3 years. I want to see him healthy throughout the season. I want to see him develop a serious bull rush, and of course to do that he will need to get stronger. I want to see him work hard to get off the ball faster, so he needs to develop a quicker first step . ALL those things are areas that can be improved through hard work.

Jones has been a very good pick for us this far, not spectacular, but more than solid. Certainly a consistently productive player you'd love to have here for a minimum of 2 more seasons. 'I can see if Jones can get stronger, and faster off the mark, he will become a consistent double digit sacker, and occasional all pro.

I get snarky sometimes, Shmess, because far too often some people seem far too eager to tear down people for every imperfection, and then when things go well, conveniently forget that they were ever critical.

robertweathers said:

Did you mean HTs 2016 #? Not sure why it's interesting that their monies are similar?

Are you referring to the $1.8m in playing time incentives?

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It's interesting because people are suggesting it's way too much money for Mayo, but an obvious bargain for Hightower.

I'm referring to the $7.75 million figure that's been used for Hightower's option and the $8 million figure that's been used for Mayo's new money.

I was careless about the year for Hightower. Thanks for catching that.

A worthy heir to the #54 jersey.

TBR said:

I'm not completely sold on him, to be honest.

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I'm not sold on him either if he's expecting to be paid like an elite defensive end. He's a good DE, but not great. It all depends on how much he's looking for

robertweathers said:

My bad. I misread the response. I thought you were referring to HT.

I agree. I think Jones is a good player. The 5th yr option for him is ~$7.5m. Is he a big money edge rusher? I think he is still improving but I would not put him at an all-pro level

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I wouldn't even put him at a pro bowl level at this point in his career.

He had some injuries last year so can't beat up on him too hard, but his sack totals should have been a lot higher with the elite secondary we had.. qbs weren't getting the ball out quickly like Brady in the SB, the coverage was solid and forced QBS to hold onto it for awhile.. our pass rushers should have held meetings on the QBS face with regularity

Marinlik said:

I think he got pretty good in the end of the 2013 season. My biggest problem with him before the end of 2013 was that he often took too long time to read plays and react on them. It looked a bit like he didn't trust his instincts. He didn't go the wrong way or anything like that. He just waited longer than he needed to before moving towards the ball, even when looking towards the ball carrier. Like he wanted to be absolutely 100% sure of who had the ball and where it was going, instead of trusting his tape study and instincts saying that the play where going where he thought it was. Then as the year went on he started reacting much faster which made him meet the ball carrier earlier and with more force.

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Yea but that's to be expected with young players.. BB typically liked older, veteran linebackers on his roster for that very reason. . Bruschi, mcginest, Vrabel, etc all had great instincts but they developed those over a long career.

Hightower has done very well, especially when he had to step in as the play caller when Mayo went down 2 years in a row.. in only his 2nd season he was wearing the green dot and playing middle linebacker in a Bill Belichick defense..

That's impressive stuff and no easy task

Fencer said:

It's interesting because people are suggesting it's way too much money for Mayo, but an obvious bargain for Hightower.

I'm referring to the $7.75 million figure that's been used for Hightower's option and the $8 million figure that's been used for Mayo's new money.

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Gotcha

Not too sure HT @7m is a bargain but if he keeps improving (which is an all-pro level) he no doubt will be.

With Mayo, the fact that hes played 12 games in 2 years and will be 30 in February certainly makes you wonder if he is worth $11m next year- even if he has an all-pro year.

Jones is averaging a little bit more than 0.5 sacks per game (23.5 sacks in 40 games equals 0.58 sacks per game), or about 9 sacks per season. On the other hand, he's a liability against the run. I'd have to guess that he's a closer call for BB than was Hightower, but I expect the team to either pick up the option or work out something else to keep him around.

The way BB's head works for the salary cap, he'll only allow himself contact extensions to a handful of his veterans. He made the commitment to McCourty, and I'm glad. But if you imagine that he's looking down the road a bit and sees that he'll have to choose among Gostkowski, Solder, Jones, Hightower and Collins (as a start)... things start to get a little mirky.

I actually suspect Jones draws the short straw in that cohort. And Solder too, in my opinion. Not that they're not solid starters, but given the Pats' cap philosophy, someone has to go. If I'm BB, I spend my money on Gostkowski, Hightower and Collins first. Then look to re-load early in the draft, and take consolation in the fact that we should get good Compensatory Picks for losing quality starters.

Taking a cue from the way BB handled the Seymour/Wilfork situation: he maximized the value he could get from losing the one, and doubled down on the other. Both of them Pro Bowlers, but of the two, he gave the big contract extension to the guy with the stronger leadership presence in the locker room. Wilfork became the keystone the D both on and off the field.

On the Pats defensive roster of 2018 (after Mayo and Ninkovich are gone), the veteran leadership role seems destined for Hightower up front, not Jones; plus McCourty in the secondary.

If you believe this... and I do... then the question is, do you let Jones walk in free agency and take the Compensatory Pick, or do you arrange some kind of trade while he's still under contract?