Top ten prospect Shane Ray arrested and cited for possession of marijuana

supafly said:

In the end, the "value" is still there on guys like A.Hernandez (4th round), and Dennard (7th round), but I don't know what point Belichick considers taking a guy much, much earlier?

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Those two played a combined 6 games in the NFL last year.........

Meanwhile 4th and 7th rounders Bryan Stork and Julian Edelman played in the Super Bowl and 30 regular season games last year.

Gotta be in it to win it.

Honestly IDK. I am always wary of guys his size. 6'3 and under 240 is kind of an issue (he can bulk up to whatever he likes predraft but that does not mean he can keep it on).. That to me is a minor red flag cause it almost surely means he can not hold up against the run. That being said he has talent and should be able to put on 5 lbs with his length as he grows into his body. Honestly those things are a much bigger concern to me than the pot bust.

I would take him at 32 if he falls there. If a talented player falls to you that you think is really good value you take him and then work around it after and go back to your plan.

PedroMac said:

...Do we grab him at 32?!!
....apparently he just got busted for "the Devil's lettuce"!!
https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/592856739122388992

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If Shay Ray slides?

I would wave to him as you slides by..

I'm blanking on his name, but a former NFL gm was on M&M this morning said that Ray will now slide into the 2nd or 3rd round.

TBR said:

Apparently the Patriots met with Ray, broke his toe, and planted marijuana in his car in hopes that would be enough to make him fall to them at #32. They're currently being investigated for this. Ted Wells has a report on it coming soon.

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Ted's report might be ready by the 2016 draft

patsinthesnow said:

My "red flag" player power rankings for pick 32:

1. Marcus Peters
2. Dorial Green-Beckham
3. Shane Ray
4. Randy Gregory

I would probably only draft #1 and maybe #2 before trading down. Not sure Ray/Gregory are worthy of 1st round picks with their questions. Atleast Peters/Beckham have top 10-15 pick type talent.

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OK with you on Peters. Thumbs down on Beckeham, first because of the character issues, they are the most serious of the bunch, plus he's a WR that I'd never take in the first round. Between Edelman, Amendola, Lafell and Dobson, where would he play his first year. We have bigger needs elsewhere.

Ray and Gregory's "character issues" aren't that troubling, but their athletic and injury issues are. They have speed and athleticism the Pats aren't going to get normally where they draft so they have to look closely . Right now everyone will be dumping on them. One GM thought Ray could last until the 3rd or 4th.

If all 4 were there I'd take Peters. In fact I'm thinking now that if Peter and Goldman were both there I'd grab Marcus. In fact coming to NE would probably be the best thing for Peters, but I doubt he makes it to the 20's let alone the 3o's Too many teams have CB issues to let him slide through.

Bottom line: prior to this week I gave no thought to Gregory or Ray thinking there was no way for them to get to us. Now that there is, I'll have to read more about them. This is a draft for risks

His special characteristic is his first step. He's too stiff to play OLB in either the 3-4 or 4-3 and the Patriots don't need an outside guy who plays with his hand on the ground, they have Ninkovich, Jones, and Sheard in the rotation as well as Buchanan and Moore as developmental backups.

I honestly don't care about guys smoking weed. As we saw with the Hernandez trial, guys can smoke and get away with it because they are only tested once per year for recreational drugs. Normally guys can just get through that test (usually during training camp I believe) and then they are free to do whatever they want for the rest of the season.

The problem for guys like Ray and Randy Gregory is because they got busted in the pre-draft process, they are automatically entered into phase 1 of the NFL's substance abuse policy and will be subjected to more than 1 test per year. So if they are habitual smokers it is going to make things much more difficult.

So the smoking weed thing to me is no big deal and I generally don't care if a player failed a drug test at school, but to be stupid enough to get caught and put into the substance abuse program is a much bigger deal.

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 15m15 minutes ago
Shane Ray now automatically enrolled in behavioral portion of Phase 1 of NFL's substance abuse program, sources tell ESPN's Mark Dominik.

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robertweathers said:

You can coach players up and hide deficiencies in skill or athletic ability but you can't coach up stupid.

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Well, people do grow up and learn from their mistakes it's just a matter of whether or not we think he will and if we want him to do that on our time and dime.

Honestly, I'd prefer Randy Gregory over Shane Ray

At 64 maybe as a flier; at 32 got to be someone better (even without drug habits) or another club dumb enough to offer next years 1st.

If he was just an injured guy who had a combine and needs surgery, or just an idiot who got nailed with a bunch of weed on draft week, I'd be pretty hopeful about him sliding to 32. But since he's both... eh.

TBR said:

Honestly, I'd prefer Randy Gregory over Shane Ray

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Sure, and I would prefer Bud Dupree over either of them, but they're both going in the top half of the 1st.

JPsPats said:

he had 35 grams of it lmao.. Like not even just a couple for self use. Like who drives with that amount WEEK before the draft.

I'd still take him at 32 though lol.

Maybe BB told him to do that so he will fall to us hehe.

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If was "35 grams or less", which is the misdemeanor amount. Still full ****** of him though.

supafly said:

That's a great point, and shows the difficulty in attempting to find the balance between "just" smoking weed, and having enough hints that something larger is in play.

For example, if one can't stop smoking weed for a week or two (the last time I smoked I tested clean on the 8th day in rehab, and I pretty much smoked multiple times, every day for years at points in my 20s/early 30s), that may lead to signs of immaturity, poor decision making, or some other underlying factors that point towards making a different draft selection.

In the end, the "value" is still there on guys like A.Hernandez (4th round), and Dennard (7th round), but I don't know what point Belichick considers taking a guy much, much earlier?

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FWIW, I'm solidly on the "it's just weed" bandwagon. When it comes up that a guy once tested positive for weed in college or admitted to smoking it in combine interviews, I genuinely don't care. Getting nailed for possession the week of the draft is a little different though.

Actually this is smart for him. With the new CBA big contracts for high draft pick do not exist. By adding a question mark maybe he slides down to a better team.
And he smoked a substance legal in some states the NFL does business in. If that is the only thing, so what?

This threadas has changed my mind on Ray, not because of the pot smoking, which I don't consider meaningful other than as a demonstration of poor judgment. What has changed my mind is that he doesn't fit what I want in a first round pick. I see the first round as the place to get great players and players that will continue significantly and while I think Ray could contribute as a pass rusher I don't think he would beat out Jones, Ninkovich, or any of any of their starting linebackers. I also don't think he will become a great player, so while pass rushers are always a priority I would pass on Ray for those who would better fit that criteria, such as Byron Jones or Cameron Erving.

lurker1965 said:

Actually this is smart for him. With the new CBA big contracts for high draft pick do not exist. By adding a question mark maybe he slides down to a better team.
And he smoked a substance legal in some states the NFL does business in. If that is the only thing, so what?

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Well he also has a foot injury that people are still speculating whether or not it will surgery, plus he didn't participate in the combine and had a bad pro day.

I could see him becoming a good pro, but I could just as easily (maybe more easily) see him being the next Sergio Kindle.

varjao said:

Jesus, less than a week for the draft and he is walking around high, how stupid

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fnordcircle said:

Not being able to stay away from pot a week before the draft does not augur well for his priorities.

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robertweathers said:

You can coach players up and hide deficiencies in skill or athletic ability but you can't coach up stupid.

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BradyFTW! said:

FWIW, I'm solidly on the "it's just weed" bandwagon. When it comes up that a guy once tested positive for weed in college or admitted to smoking it in combine interviews, I genuinely don't care. Getting nailed for possession the week of the draft is a little different though.

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Guys, it may not be stupid. Since the new CBA the money lost between pick 17 and 32 is not as big as being on a good team where your career numbers are better so the second, non-rookie, contract is bigger.

Wilfork#75 said:

I honestly don't care about guys smoking weed. As we saw with the Hernandez trial, guys can smoke and get away with it because they are only tested once per year for recreational drugs. Normally guys can just get through that test (usually during training camp I believe) and then they are free to do whatever they want for the rest of the season.

The problem for guys like Ray and Randy Gregory is because they got busted in the pre-draft process, they are automatically entered into phase 1 of the NFL's substance abuse policy and will be subjected to more than 1 test per year. So if they are habitual smokers it is going to make things much more difficult.

So the smoking weed thing to me is no big deal and I generally don't care if a player failed a drug test at school, but to be stupid enough to get caught and put into the substance abuse program is a much bigger deal.

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Of course, there is that concern.

Oh, just to be clear, maybe at 64 if he lasts that long. Pot does not scare me and this may be calculated and he is not just an idiot. (I might be wrong on that, but if they take him I'll assume they did their homework.)


Edit: Oops replied to while typing.

lurker1965 said:

Guys, it may not be stupid. Since the new CBA the money lost between pick 17 and 32 is not as big as being on a good team where your career numbers are better so the second, non-rookie, contract is bigger.



Of course, there is that concern.

Oh, just to be clear, maybe at 64 if he lasts that long. Pot does not scare me and this may be calculated and he is not just an idiot. (I might be wrong on that, but if they take him I'll assume they did their homework.)

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At 64, taking him would be pretty much a no-brainer. The potential reward is too high not to. At 32, the likelihood that he busts is too high IMO.