Who Likes Cannon As Our Starting LT For 2016? Let's Draft More OL's!

SOLDER is signed through 2015. He is an UFA in 2016.

I suspect that Belichick is considering contingencies for 2016 in case there is no contract with Solder. Cannon is an obvious option (or Cannon as RT and Vollmer as LT).

Jeremiah (one of the NFL.com draftniks) has us drafting a starting OG (Tomlinson) at 32 and a LT (Smith) at 64. This would be a serious STEP TWO of our OL makeover.

Many here think that starting LG's can be had in the fourth round. Perhaps this is true, perhaps not.
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ANALYSIS
The draft is a time to focus on the future. We have significant needs at OG, OT, RB, DE, DT, LB and CB. Some folks even have us drafting a safety in the first round.

What seems clear is that this draft is very unpredictable.

For me, I expect us to draft two offensive linemen in the first 101 picks. The question for me is when.

mgteich said:

SOLDER is signed through 2015. He is an UFA in 2016.

I suspect that Belichick is considering contingencies for 2016 in case there is no contract with Solder. Cannon is an obvious option (or Cannon as RT and Vollmer as LT).

Jeremiah (one of the NFL.com draftniks) has us drafting a starting OG (Tomlinson) at 32 and a LT (Smith) at 64. This would be a serious STEP TWO of our OL makeover.

Many here think that starting LG's can be had in the fourth round. Perhaps this is true, perhaps not.
=========================
ANALYSIS
The draft is a time to focus on the future. We have significant needs at OG, OT, RB, DE, DT, LB and CB. Some folks even have us drafting a safety in the first round.

What seems clear is that this draft is very unpredictable.

For me, I expect us to draft two offensive linemen in the first 101 picks. The question for me is when.

Click to expand...

The point is that BB is looking at 3 year windows when he drafts. From that standpoint almost every position group is a need every season. I think he drafts BPA from a group he has slotted close together then factors in how great and immediate the need is.
This is why some drafts people think he filled the needs they see and some they think he missed badly on need.
He is reading out of a different book than those trying to critique him.

Don't see Cannon as a LT, I see Solder eventually getting re-signed and an O lineman drafted this year in rounds 3 and after.

Matt Light played LT for 11 years for the NEP. Has Belichick made a paradigm shift in his thinking and will let Solder walk just like that? I'll believe it when I see it.

As far as drafting 2 O lineman in the first 101 picks, I doubt they'd use 32 or 64. so that leaves 96,97 and 101. Two in a row at 96, 97? I guess it's plausible. I could see a 96/101. If I had to bet I'd go with ONE pick for O line between 96,97 and 101 and one later at 131.

The caveat, as usual, is I have no clue WHAT BB will do and haven't since 2001. For all anyone knows he may eschew O line completely or trade up in the 1st or 2nd round to nail one. Who knows?

OT might be the deepest position in this draft.

I don't think Solder's leaving, either, and if it came to that, with no drafted replacement, Vollmer would go to LT and Cannon would play RT, I expect.

If Solder's leaving, I would expect Vollmer would play left tackle and cannon RT and i wouldn't lose a bit of sleep over that.

Of course, they could resign him or draft a replacement.

Solder (young (27), candidate to re-sign, I would resign) - LT stability
Vollmer (older (30), could be extended, depends on $$$ and Fleming's possible development as his replacement)
Fleming (very young (22), injuries and late start due to Stanford graduation, don't know what he will develop into, but I think he can play RT, not sure he can move inside to G)
Cannon ( young (26, almost 27) swing tackle, backup, locked up for 2 years at above average money for a backup, may not see the second year of his deal unless he bounces back from last year, he was a mess at G, but can back up both tackles)

This group looks deeper than our interior line where we'd probably have to start Josh Kline at this point along with Wendell at LG/RG respectively. Backups at guard Devey and Barker do not inspire confidence either. Wendell is the backup Center as well and on the last year of his deal at age 29. He could be extended again, hopefully as a backup assuming we pick up some talent for the interior line.

I am not opposed to drafting a Tackle at some point, but I really want to be stronger up the middle. Fleming might not develop as much as we would hope, injuries can happen, and Cannon was shaky early last year. We can always use more competition.

Wow. Wendell is only 29...

I am with posters saying Solder - at 27 - is a candidate to stick around. Hasn't been perfect. But (1) neither was Light (2) Light was around for a long time (3) just looks like BB puts importance on keeping continuity at LT (4) I know praise from NE sometimes ends up being the kiss of death, but the OL coach went out of his way to praise Solder (and even criticize other LTs).

Any OL help is welcome. But I for one like our tackles : including Flemming and Cannin as quality depth.

Joker said:

Matt Light played LT for 11 years for the NEP. Has Belichick made a paradigm shift in his thinking and will let Solder walk just like that? I'll believe it when I see it.

As far as drafting 2 O lineman in the first 101 picks, I doubt they'd use 32 or 64. so that leaves 96,97 and 101. Two in a row at 96, 97? I guess it's plausible. I could see a 96/101. If I had to bet I'd go with ONE pick for O line between 96,97 and 101 and one later at 131.

The caveat, as usual, is I have no clue WHAT BB will do and haven't since 2001. For all anyone knows he may eschew O line completely or trade up in the 1st or 2nd round to nail one. Who knows?

Click to expand...

I was watching "A Football Life" last night about Belichick's time as HC of the Browns. One of the things that I learned from it (aside from the sheer volume of folks he taught that have become top-tier HC's and GM's from those years) is that his philosophy is to draft the best FOOTBALL player available regardless of the team's need at any given position.

This idea was reinforced by footage showing Ozzy Newsome and others saying the same darned thing, and the results seem to speak for themselves. If you get the BEST football player available when your turn to pick comes around, then you can find a spot for him and if not, he can, down the road, be used for trade for some other player.

The show also pointed out how trustworthy and transparent in negotiations Belichick is. Pioli and another fellow (who started out as a little sprig on Belichick's coaching tree) were saying how important it was to be able to trust another coach/GM during trade discussions, and how Belichick had reinforced that so that the other teams would always be willing to take their calls, etc, and know that you were on the square and level with them. It explains a lot about why New England took the picks it has, and why the Patriots have been able to get "good deals" in many trades.

I look forward to every year's draft for the sheer enjoyment of watching the talking head's try and scramble to keep up with Belichick and his war room.

I get the feeling that Solder's health issues at the beginning of camp last year may have thrown a wrench in the negotiation process, but that's just speculation, of course.

In my opinion, as long as his health is okay, Solder will continue to be our starting LT for the future, and the team is simply taking a bit of a cautious approach right now.

I do think that T is a position that isn't automatically crossed off the list though, even if it's a conversion project for IOL. I think that's likely one of the points of your OP.

AndyJohnson said:

The point is that BB is looking at 3 year windows when he drafts. From that standpoint almost every position group is a need every season. I think he drafts BPA from a group he has slotted close together then factors in how great and immediate the need is.
This is why some drafts people think he filled the needs they see and some they think he missed badly on need.
He is reading out of a different book than those trying to critique him.

Click to expand...

I generally agree with your assessment. However, I think that the window has been moved to 2 years for players picked after the first round. If a player takes two years to develop, then the team can get two years of production. A first rounder can take a bit longer, but the cost of the 5th year is high, so I'd still say the window is two years.

BOTTOM LINE
I agree that with your point that we don't look only at 2015, and perhaps not even only at 2105 and 2016. And, yes, that does mean that almost all positions are in play.

That being said, sometimes there are current and next year needs that must be addressed. I believe that this is true this year for OL and RB, although RB can be addressed starting with the bunch picks.

And yes, we do need to look to develop a linebacker. Your suggestion of the 4th round seems about right. Obviously, a top talent being available could change Belichick's assessment.

farn said:

Wow. Wendell is only 29...

I am with posters saying Solder - at 27 - is a candidate to stick around. Hasn't been perfect. But (1) neither was Light (2) Light was around for a long time (3) just looks like BB puts importance on keeping continuity at LT (4) I know praise from NE sometimes ends up being the kiss of death, but the OL coach went out of his way to praise Solder (and even criticize other LTs).

Any OL help is welcome. But I for one like our tackles : including Flemming and Cannin as quality depth.

Click to expand...

Yes, Solder is a CANDIDATE to stick around. I would point out that the team couldn't find common ground on an extension, and he will be a free agent with a not-so-agreeable agent. Belichick certainly can't count on Solder being extended.

You are right, of course.

I hope they see fit to have Solder return. And I hope he continues to succeed. Sometimes he gets grief : but there are some real bada$$es trying to knock Brady down and he does a good job protecting the QB considering the elite talent coming at him.

farn said:

You are right, of course.

I hope they see fit to have Solder return. And I hope he continues to succeed. Sometimes he gets grief : but there are some real bada$$es trying to knock Brady down and he does a good job protecting the QB considering the elite talent coming at him.

Click to expand...

For all we know, the plan may have been to extend him by now. The fact that he was diagnosed with cancer may have forced them to take a more cautious approach by letting that 5th year option play out, then re-assessing the situation again at a later date as long as he continues to stay on the right track.

It'd be kind of difficult to justify throwing out a big pact when he just had cancer within the past 8-9 months, but much like Marcus Cannon, as long as he remains healthy and on the right track, that bigger pact may come sometime during the season.

Of course, maybe it had nothing to do with it whatsoever, but it's at least worth considering.

mgteich said:

I generally agree with your assessment. However, I think that the window has been moved to 2 years for players picked after the first round. If a player takes two years to develop, then the team can get two years of production. A first rounder can take a bit longer, but the cost of the 5th year is high, so I'd still say the window is two years.

BOTTOM LINE
I agree that with your point that we don't look only at 2015, and perhaps not even only at 2105 and 2016. And, yes, that does mean that almost all positions are in play.

That being said, sometimes there are current and next year needs that must be addressed. I believe that this is true this year for OL and RB, although RB can be addressed starting with the bunch picks.

And yes, we do need to look to develop a linebacker. Your suggestion of the 4th round seems about right. Obviously, a top talent being available could change Belichick's assessment.

Click to expand...

I meant that when he assesses needs he views it in a 3 year window. What you are talking about is the hope of a player developing. I don't think he ever drafts a player assuming he won't be able to contribute for 2 years, other than late rounds when everyone on the board is a question to whether they will ev er develop.

O-line is a relatively high-longevity position with regard to maintaining elite skills. Very much UNLIKE running back, for example, when even a second contract is risky.

A second contract for Solder is not particularly risky. Sure, we may be outbid, but I'd think that Solder rates high in our plans/wishes even beyond next season.

Solder was lights out in the playoffs. Given what we now know about last year's offseason, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see him play to a Pro Bowl level this season.

If the Patriots settle LG/RG, their core of Solder-Stork-Vollmer is up there with the very best of OLs.

I see Cannon as insurance and that's it. He's been awful of late. Hopefully Solder continues his playoff form and is here for another couple of contracts. OL is one of those groups that needs as much quality stability as possible.

Solder could just as easily be traded to Tampa Bay this summer if Cannon steps up at LT in camp and extension talks go nowhere. The price to beat presumably would be a 2017 comp 3rd, and even with $7.4 million due I could see a team ponying up a 2nd.

The Pats did have Matt Light for quite a while but he always signed pretty team friendly contracts. Perusing patscap I think his highest season capwise (2008) he counted for 4.5% of the cap space. Solder's option year this year represents something like 5.2% of the Pats' cap. I expect in FA he will likely want significantly more.

Will BB devote more resources to LT this time around, or will he begin the cycle anew? Will he move Solder early to maximize draft resources?

Gwedd said:

I was watching "A Football Life" last night about Belichick's time as HC of the Browns. One of the things that I learned from it (aside from the sheer volume of folks he taught that have become top-tier HC's and GM's from those years) is that his philosophy is to draft the best FOOTBALL player available regardless of the team's need at any given position.

This idea was reinforced by footage showing Ozzy Newsome and others saying the same darned thing, and the results seem to speak for themselves. If you get the BEST football player available when your turn to pick comes around, then you can find a spot for him and if not, he can, down the road, be used for trade for some other player.

The show also pointed out how trustworthy and transparent in negotiations Belichick is. Pioli and another fellow (who started out as a little sprig on Belichick's coaching tree) were saying how important it was to be able to trust another coach/GM during trade discussions, and how Belichick had reinforced that so that the other teams would always be willing to take their calls, etc, and know that you were on the square and level with them. It explains a lot about why New England took the picks it has, and why the Patriots have been able to get "good deals" in many trades.

I look forward to every year's draft for the sheer enjoyment of watching the talking head's try and scramble to keep up with Belichick and his war room.

Click to expand...

There are two main approaches to negotiations:

• Haggle a little.
• Haggle a lot.

By "haggle a little" I mean take a starting position and don't deviate from it much. Assuming your starting position is a nice win for you, every deal you conclude will be one you think is non-trivially favorable.

By "haggle a lot" I mean -- well, what it sounds like. Sometimes you'll do spectacularly well in the negotiation. Sometimes the deal you get will be only marginally favorable to you, and you'll wish you were known as a non-haggler, in which case you'd have gotten a better deal. In other cases the marginally favorable was the only one to be gotten at all, and if you were a non-haggler, you'd have let a guy walk.

People you have an ongoing business relationship with tend to wind up pleased in the "haggle a little" scenario, whether or not you get a deal done at that time. The ones you don't have any ongoing relationship with, however, are sometimes annoyed that you don't have one, because you walked away from what was perhaps a haggle deal to be done.

Have thought hen the Pats refused to match the Revis offer, they had the resigning of Solder, Hightower, Jones et al in mind.. there is no reason to believe that BB will not try to keep Solder as LT.... he is not elite, but he is very good.. if we went elite at that position it might ruin the "economic system" of this team.

A very good thing is Dante is out there scouting some of these guys.. and his feedback will be invaluable.