Comforting tweet from Sharks of Vegas

VectorPrime said:

Why on Earth has there not been even a vague update from the NFL or Wells on this? Like a simple

"we're wrapping up"

or

"we're still in the process of investigating"

You know, something.

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I'm really beginning to think that the main reason for the delay is that it's an attempt by Goodell and the league to tell everyone, "Hey, we're still in charge here and we'll determine not just what's reported, but also when it's reported." Pure power play and statement.

BradyManny said:

I'm not rehashing the argument. I think I've made it clear on where I stand on interpreting their exoneration announcement. What point would it be of me to debate you at this point? I guess I require a much higher burden of proof than you do for trusting Twitter sources who convince people to gamble for a living.

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BradyManny said:

In this case, yes, I probably did. You clearly want to believe too much.

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Yep, that must be why you can't come up with anything they have been wrong about. Low standards and yet you can't even meet those. What a shame.

BradyManny said:

In this case, yes, I probably did. You clearly want to believe too much.

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When you get the chance you should look up n the word "smarmy."

Really, you should.

Ivan said:

Yep, that must be why you can't come up with anything they have been wrong about. Low standards and yet you can't even meet those. What a shame.

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I think I posted my opinions on SoV enough in this thread. I posted rather definitively what I felt was a falsifiable prediction by SoV that within almost zero business hours proved wrong. That was my interpretation. You disagreed.

I also showed you several examples of them piggy-backing Schefter, Curran or PFT, and included timestamps, and cited their lack of mentioning the person who originally broke the story - something which, frankly, is a lot worse than making bad prediction. Again, you disagreed.

I'd be perfectly happy to agree to disagree, but you keep trolling me and trying to bait me into the same debate.

I engaged in a civil debate with Shmessy about it, who shared a similar point of view as you, and he was able to clearly show me where he was coming from. I don't think you have done the same.

supafly said:

It looks like we have to hope that the bulk of his speculation is coming from his source, rather than his opinion.

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The guy officially lost me officially with his string of tweets on April 13th that claimed a) Patriots balls were underinflated because "Brady likes them that way," but refs didn't check b) Colts deinflated Patriots ball on the sideline before calling Kensil.

Again, PV = nRT rules out #1. Patriots did not submit underinflated balls to the league, as they are implying.

BradyManny said:

The guy officially lost me officially with his string of tweets on April 13th that claimed a) Patriots balls were underinflated because "Brady likes them that way," but refs didn't check b) Colts deinflated Patriots ball on the sideline before calling Kensil.

Again, PV = nRT rules out #1. Patriots did not submit underinflated balls to the league, as they are implying.

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Just playing Devil's Advocate, how do you KNOW that?

PV=nRT does NOT rule out the possibility that the Patriots submitted 12.4 or lower PSi footballs to the refs, and they simply didn't measure.

Stating the "Patriots did not submit underinflated balls to the league" is a huge assumption on your part. Do you have a source?

shmessy said:

Stating the "Patriots did not submit underinflated balls to the league" is a huge assumption on your part. Do you have a source?

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Admittedly it comes down to which report of the PSI levels we're accepting. If we're accepting the Rap/Curran reports that only one was 2 PSI under, and the rest were between a nominal amount and 1 PSI, then it would odd if the balls started under to begin with. We're expecting the balls to drop a PSI based on temperature alone, and more to accommodate for other factors (such as being wet).

shmessy said:

Just playing Devil's Advocate, how do you KNOW that?

PV=nRT does NOT rule out the possibility that the Patriots submitted 12.4 or lower PSi footballs to the refs, and they simply didn't measure.

Stating the "Patriots did not submit underinflated balls to the league" is a huge assumption on your part. Do you have a source?

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You are correct and if the balls were measured below 10.6 PSI I would say that either they were submitted under inflated and not checked similar to how Rodgers does it or if they were deflated. Of course we have to assume that the people doing the checking were correct and ethical which is very questionable.

Basically though the NFL has to prove the Patriots did something to the balls after they were inspected and it seems the best they can come up with is they were out of sight for a 92 second piss break. If the balls were around 11 PSI or above science explains it all. 10.6 - 11 probably science but tougher to prove as it is the cold rain effect.

Dr Pain said:

If the balls were around 11 PSI or above science explains it all. 10.6 - 11 probably science but tougher to prove as it is the cold rain effect.

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Sure which this damn report would come out one of these days so we have some of these answers!

BradyManny said:

Sure which this damn report would come out one of these days so we have some of these answers!

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Agreed. It has gone beyond the point of ridicule and should have been wrapped months ago. The league office just continues to clown itself and would be destroying any shred if credibility if they weren't already bankrupt in that department.

As I have said numerous times I don't know if SOV have a source or are simply parroting information from others but I appreciate the fact that they have been carrying the flag for the Patriots and to date have been on the money with their takes

Ivan said:

As I have said numerous times I don't know if SOV have a source or are simply parroting information from others but I appreciate the fact that they have been carrying the flag for the Patriots and to date have been on the money with their takes

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Fair enough. I like that SoV is pushing pro-Patriots stuff too, but I think we'll have to agree to disagree with how on the money they have been.

shmessy said:

Stating the "Patriots did not submit underinflated balls to the league" is a huge assumption on your part. Do you have a source?

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Our source is Belichick, is it not? I'm pretty sure that during the epic press conference he said NE submits balls at 12.5 PSI.

supafly said:

This guy is just guessing like the rest of us. That's obvious to many people who read a tweet that starts with "my theory is....." That isn't "reporting" or "having sources," that is just giving one's opinion.

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True. However, we ALL put together our opinions / analyses / wild ass guesses (whatever you want to call them) based on some combination of external info, guesswork & our own "skills".

supafly said:

Sharks of Vegas @SharksOfVegas · Apr 13
My theory is the Colts took air out of the Jackson Int ball. Called Kensil to get the investigation going. They knew the Pats (Cont)

Balls were under inflated since Brady likes them like that and the refs don't check. Instant scandal.

Sharks of Vegas @SharksOfVegas · Apr 13
It was all started by Brady saying "those guys need to read the rule book" about the Ravens the week before.

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These quotes (assuming that they weren't taken out of context) do not reflect well on SOV.

The single, crystal clear observation is that the league officials, the referees, the players, etc., were all clueless about the effect of temperature on pressure. This was true for a couple of weeks after the Indy game. Some are STILL clueless.

There is no need to go any further than this to explain everything that happened. There is, well there should be, a Parsimony Principle here: the simplest explanation, consistent with the laws of physics, is the preferred one. Unless & until overruled by hard evidence.

I have a very hard time believing that anyone in the Colts organization is so colossally stupid as to think that letting air out of only the ball to which they had access, would do ANYTHING to reduce the pressure in the Pats' balls that they did NOT control. If their ball was the only one that read low, it would serve absolutely no purpose other than to make the COLTS look like cheaters. And idiots.

I don't see any justification for assuming that they are cheaters & colossal idiots, when the temperature drop explains it all, just fine.

tom.kordis said:

True. However, we ALL put together our opinions / analyses / wild ass guesses (whatever you want to call them) based on some combination of external info, guesswork & our own "skills".



These quotes (assuming that they weren't taken out of context) do not reflect well on SOV.

The single, crystal clear observation is that the league officials, the referees, the players, etc., were all clueless about the effect of temperature on pressure. This was true for a couple of weeks after the Indy game. Some are STILL clueless.

There is no need to go any further than this to explain everything that happened. There is, well there should be, a Parsimony Principle here: the simplest explanation, consistent with the laws of physics, is the preferred one. Unless & until overruled by hard evidence.

I have a very hard time believing that anyone in the Colts organization is so colossally stupid as to think that letting air out of only the ball to which they had access, would do ANYTHING to reduce the pressure in the Pats' balls that they did NOT control. If their ball was the only one that read low, it would serve absolutely no purpose other than to make the COLTS look like cheaters. And idiots.

I don't see any justification for assuming that they are cheaters & colossal idiots, when the temperature drop explains it all, just fine.

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Yes, although I will never be able to explain the scientific reasoning behind it like you can (read: I am scientifically ignorant in this situation, and not afraid to admit it ), the fact that Sharks of Vegas has brought up anything other than the most simplistic of theories does indeed, make me apprehensive.

If you want to take it one step further, their insinuation of the Colts deflating footballs in some weirdo attempt to try and frame us comes off as a very bad "Incarcerated Bob" tweet. As much as I hope that their tweets are correct, it does reek of fan boy logic to me. We'll find out soon enough....or maybe not

The thing is that I can totally believe Irsay himself would order his underlings to do something that. The guy is literally a mentally unstable coke head.

VectorPrime said:

The thing is that I can totally believe Irsay himself would order his underlings to do something that. The guy is literally a mentally unstable coke head.

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I agree that Irsay fits into the kind of category where only a small number of owners would fall, but I think SoV has complicated its stance by switching back and forth between the following theories. One may come to the conclusion that they are simply hedging their bets.

SCIENCE

--the wet weather/drop in temperature (which they should have just stuck with)

CONSPIRACY

--The Colts are actually the ones to let the air out

SPECULATION

--Brady actually prefers the balls to be underinflated a bit

Regarding SoV...

If [insert villian of your choice: Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Ray Lewis, Barak Obama, etc.] says 2+2=4, does their "villian status" make that statement wrong?

If [insert hero of your choice: Mother Teresa, Wonder Woman, Barak Obama, etc.] says that 2+2=5, does their "hero status" make that statement correct?

Who cares about SoV's hero or villian status.
Who cares if they are on the Pats' side or not.

Although I understand the medicinal value of someone being publicly on the Pats' side.
But, I don't care about the ignorant buffoons who have been against the Pats, so it'd be a bit hypocritical to put weight in the Pressure-Volume expertise of some sports bettors.

The one & only thing that matters is "what is the right answer"?
And SoV has no credible expertise (or insider's knowledge, from anything that I've seen) in determining that.

The reality is what it is.
Nothing that the NFL, or Wells, or anyone else says, shouts, stamps their foot & threatens to hold their breath until they turn blue, says is going to change reality.

Fortunately, this is not like some mystery "whodunnit".
This is simple, trivial, repeatable, easily provable physics.

The report, correct or incorrect, will be what it will be.

If Wells, Goodell et al. get it wrong, boy are they in for a bad, bad several months.
Their public careers & reputations may never recover.
I think that they're aware of that.

rlcarr said:

Our source is Belichick, is it not? I'm pretty sure that during the epic press conference he said NE submits balls at 12.5 PSI.

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That's an accused, not a source.

Yeah, my source is Aaaron Hernandez and he pleaded "not guilty".

supafly said:

I agree that Irsay fits into the kind of category where only a small number of owners would fall, but I think SoV has complicated its stance by switching back and forth between the following theories. One may come to the conclusion that they are simply hedging their bets.

SCIENCE

--the wet weather/drop in temperature (which they should have just stuck with)

CONSPIRACY

--The Colts are actually the ones to let the air out

SPECULATION

--Brady actually prefers the balls to be underinflated a bit

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What is inconsistent about those three statements? They can all be in play and do not rule each other out. It's quite possible that all three of those things are true.

Brady prefers his footballs on the low side, the Colts let some air out, and wet weather/drop in temperature deflates footballs.

How does any of those three things contradict? In any one moment of real life, many things are going on simultaneously. This morning it is sunny and cold, the Patriots are about to get on a flight to Washington, D.C. and the US stock market opens at 9:30am. See?

shmessy said:

What is inconsistent about those three statements? They can all be in play and do not rule each other out. It's quite possible that all three of those things are true.

Brady prefers his footballs on the low side, the Colts let some air out, and wet weather/drop in temperature deflates footballs.

How does any of those three things contradict? In any one moment of real life, many things are going on simultaneously. This morning it is sunny and cold, the Patriots are about to get on a flight to Washington, D.C. and the US stock market opens at 9:30am. See?

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Stating that the "balls were underinflated because Brady likes them like that" (exact quote) is not suggestive that they were on the low side, as you say. It's speculative at best, and you know it.

You can choose to believe that SoV is reputable and that their information/stance hasn't wavered whatsoever, but that would be in direct contradiction to what they, themselves (or more appropriately, "he") has already stated by opening some of his tweets with the phrase "my theory is....." Doesn't that phrase kind of discredit them in your eyes a bit? I mean, it has to at least make you skeptical.

The irony is that if other reporters such as Mortenson etc were claiming that "their theory is...." we'd be having a field day with their low credibility, but since they are backing our team that must mean that they have inside sources and automatically know the truth?

Is it science/wet weather/temp drop, as he first reported? Or is it a league-wide conspiracy involving people from multiple rival teams (Jets, Colts, Ravens)? There's a fairly sharp turn in there somewhere that makes some of us hesitant to jump on their bandwagon, although as I've stated---it's good to see someone, anyone, backing the organization.