Rehash...Butler interception was not a bad play call

Danger Zone said:

Praise also needs to be given to the coaches that ran that exact play in practice and to the coach that came up to Butler afterwards and told him "Malcom, you gotta be on that".

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Unbelievable that it was not only slightly botched, but that he made that incredible play.

willdeespats said:

I have re-watched this play many, many times. Often in slow motion and each time I come to the conclusion: Wilson screwed this play up. Butler caught the ball on his right shoulder. He used his left shoulder to block Lockette out of the play. A real sandlot football maneuver! If the ball is delivered any more to Butler's left, then he probably would not have been able to make the interception - just force an in-completion. So Wilson's mistake was putting a ball in the air where more than his intended receiver has a chance to make the catch. Something Brady very rarely does!

And then we get Wilson's response to Carroll's 'What happened?" They jumped the route. Absolutely no recognition that the play was screwed up by the Seahawks. There just may be an ego issue here as well.

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There is one more thing I keep harping on, regarding why Wilson's pass isn't in the perfect spot. Check out this behind-the-QB angle (starting at about 0:47)... I have seen it closer up, and it is more evident. You can use the space bar to make it start/stop (at least on YouTube, maybe not here).


Look for passing lanes for Russ. He's barely got one between the TE and the tackle, and he's tip-toeing/jumping as he releases. I think smurfdom plays into it, as he fails to get the ball down to the gut level but sails the ball higher & to the left, giving Butler his shot.

On the other hand, he seems mystified as to where Butler came from in this clip


Oh the schadenfreude!

PatsFanInVa said:

There is one more thing I keep harping on, regarding why Wilson's pass isn't in the perfect spot. Check out this behind-the-QB angle (starting at about 0:47)... I have seen it closer up, and it is more evident. You can use the space bar to make it start/stop (at least on YouTube, maybe not here).


Look for passing lanes for Russ. He's barely got one between the TE and the tackle, and he's tip-toeing/jumping as he releases. I think smurfdom plays into it, as he fails to get the ball down to the gut level but sails the ball higher & to the left, giving Butler his shot.

On the other hand, he seems mystified as to where Butler came from in this clip


Oh the schadenfreude!

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He's mystified because Kearse and Browner are supposed to be between Lockette and the receiver. He can't figure out how he "went around them" because they are actually to the right and many steps into the end zone from where Kearse's pick route is supposed to end up..

Notice that Browner knows it right away, too.

What I remember most about the play was not just the great play by Butler but the over reaction to the int. by Cris Collinsworth. He really sounded disappointed that the Pats won and did not give credit to Butler until about 5 minutes after the play. He just when on and on about not giving it to Lynch.
I was really wanted the Super bowl replay on the blu ray with out those NBC idiots.

RayClay said:

He's mystified because Kearse and Browner are supposed to be between Lockette and the receiver. He can't figure out how he "went around them" because they are actually to the right and many steps into the end zone from where Kearse's pick route is supposed to end up..

Notice that Browner knows it right away, too.

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Browner recognizes from the snap that it's his battle to win with Kearse. He blows up the play, forces a stair-step pattern rather than a slant for Lockette, and by not being effectively picked, is out of Butler's way by the time Butler's on the way to the ball. If Kearse makes the block Butler doesn't make the play - but Browner beats him to the punch.

Just a thing of beauty to watch - over and over and over again.

RayClay said:

He's mystified because Kearse and Browner are supposed to be between Lockette and the receiver. He can't figure out how he "went around them" because they are actually to the right and many steps into the end zone from where Kearse's pick route is supposed to end up..

Notice that Browner knows it right away, too.

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Browner recognizes from the snap that it's his battle to win with Kearse. He blows up the play, forces a stair-step pattern rather than a slant for Lockette, and by not being effectively picked, is out of Butler's way by the time Butler's on the way to the ball. If Kearse makes the block Butler doesn't make the play - but Browner beats him to the punch.

Just a thing of beauty to watch - over and over and over again.

I just want to point out that Russel Wilson's two minute offense in the 4th quarter is the reason Pete Carroll is calling a pass play. Wasting two timeouts, terrible! BB also gets a small assist for not calling a timeout and forcing Pete's hand.

Danger Zone said:

Praise also needs to be given to the coaches that prepared their players with that exact play in practice and to the coach that came up to Butler afterwards and told him "Malcom, you gotta be on that".

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And, as they're lining up for the play, Browner says to Butler: "You know what you gotta do."

PatsFanInVa said:

Could they possibly be dumb enough to not even scout how the Pats perform in that situation? Erdunno. But they definitely chose the play sequence optimized for success in a vacuum of that information, and dared the Pats to blow up a foolproof play, if executed well. Unfortunately, that included Kearse winning the rub-fight with Browner. Browner has his hands out getting the first "punch" in that fight before the ball is out of Wilson's hands. If the Pats know this play in general, how many time has Browner seen it back on the practice field?

.

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Now I do believe the Seahawks properly scouted the Pats but........... I go back to the USC/Texas National Championship game and I swear that USC played with the same "we do what we want to do" attitude and didn't bother to game plan for Texas (for example Vince Young always went to his right when trying to juke someone and USC never caught on). Same guy coaching the Hawks and USC. Makes one wonder

Wheelman said:

I just want to point out that Russel Wilson's two minute offense in the 4th quarter is the reason Pete Carroll is calling a pass play. Wasting two timeouts, terrible! BB also gets a small assist for not calling a timeout and forcing Pete's hand.

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In fairness to the Seahawks, yes, the first TO was wasted but the second was understandable, given the confusion over the Kearse catch. Both sidelines, 70,000+ in the stadium (except Kearse, Malcolm Butler and the Official standing over the play), the Game Announcers and tens of millions of viewers thought it was an Incomplete Pass at first. So, while I'm happy it turned out that they had to burn a TO, I don't fault them for losing time getting to the line.

In fact, looking back on it, we're fortunate that the Replays were so clear and the Official was right on top of the play to be able to rule it a catch without hesitation, or else there might have been a Booth Timeout for a Review, saving Seattle its TO.

And, the "assist" to Belichick is huge, not "small."

PatsFanInVa said:

There is one more thing I keep harping on, regarding why Wilson's pass isn't in the perfect spot. Check out this behind-the-QB angle (starting at about 0:47)... I have seen it closer up, and it is more evident. You can use the space bar to make it start/stop (at least on YouTube, maybe not here).


Look for passing lanes for Russ. He's barely got one between the TE and the tackle, and he's tip-toeing/jumping as he releases. I think smurfdom plays into it, as he fails to get the ball down to the gut level but sails the ball higher & to the left, giving Butler his shot.

On the other hand, he seems mystified as to where Butler came from in this clip


Oh the schadenfreude!

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First, I share your obsession with this play. So, thanks for taking the time to do this analysis.

So, I watched the tape, stopping and starting, from the 0:47 point several times. We're talking mini-microseconds here, but what I see is that Wilson's feet are planted when he throws and that he moves after the ball has left his hand. Does that mean he was throwing off balance and trying to force the ball for the reasons you suggest or just following through? Only one person knows the answer to that question and I doubt he would admit it (until he writes his post-retirement book) if he did throw a ball he shouldn't have thrown.

I've also watched that sideline tape several times before and watched it again using your link. Thanks.

Two things jumped out at me from the first time I saw it.

One, that Wilson is clueless as to what happened. I think Tom Brady, Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers would not have been clueless. I think that's the difference between Great and Very Good.

Two, that the Coach (QB Coach? OC?) to whom he is speaking is completely silent. We have to be careful what we read into that. Maybe he's an experienced guy who knows that NFL Films is taping the exchange? Maybe he's mad about the call ? Or, maybe he's mad at Wilson (see Number One above) and doesn't want to say anything?

Thanks again.

PatsFanSince74 said:

In fairness to the Seahawks, yes, the first TO was wasted but the second was understandable, given the confusion over the Kearse catch. Both sidelines, 70,000+ in the stadium (except Kearse, Malcolm Butler and the Official standing over the play), the Game Announcers and tens of millions of viewers thought it was an Incomplete Pass at first. So, while I'm happy it turned out that they had to burn a TO, I don't fault them for losing time getting to the line.

In fact, looking back on it, we're fortunate that the Replays were so clear and the Official was right on top of the play to be able to rule it a catch without hesitation, or else there might have been a Booth Timeout for a Review, saving Seattle its TO.

And, the "assist" to Belichick is huge, not "small."

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I disagree, Brady would never have let that happened. He would have been running his o-line up there as soon as he saw the refs let the play go. He would have been ready to try to catch the defense off guard and quicksnap it if they were not ready. I do fault them for losing time getting to the line. That's all on Russell Wilson.

Great point! Good clear replays did save a booth timeout.

Since everyone in the world is calling Pete's decision one of the worst in the history of the game I suppose it's only fair to credit Belichick with a "huge" assist. Fair enough!

goheels22002 said:

It was a terrible call on second down with the #1 running back in the NFL standing in Seattle's backfield. Zo was right.

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They had to pass on 2nd or 3rd down to ensure they got 4 chances at a TD.. they chose 2nd down because the Patriots were in a goal line, run stopping formation

Statistically that pass in that situation is a very, very safe play that has an incredibly high success chance and a very, very low chance of turnover.

Pats D just made a great play and it bothers me that people just chalk the SB win up to luck that Carroll made a "bone head" play call.

It also gets Russell Wilson off the hook which is bogus as well

JarOfMayo51 said:

They had to pass on 2nd or 3rd down to ensure they got 4 chances at a TD.. they chose 2nd down because the Patriots were in a goal line, run stopping formation

Statistically that pass in that situation is a very, very safe play that has an incredibly high success chance and a very, very low chance of turnover.

Pats D just made a great play and it bothers me that people just chalk the SB win up to luck that Carroll made a "bone head" play call.

It also gets Russell Wilson off the hook which is bogus as well

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Seattle was not in situation where it "had to pass." Carroll had a timeout left with 26 seconds left when they snapped the ball (Belichick had two left.) Carroll had plenty of time to run two rushing plays if needed before calling a timeout. A QB sneak made more sense on 2nd and 1. Or, of course, Lynch.

Belichick and Brady would have probably run a QB sneak right there. Wilson is a terrific running QB and he posed a lot of problems.

And, of all the pass plays available from the 1-yard line, that was one of the least safe passing options. A fade into the corner of the end zone is much safer, or a pass to the back of the end zone where Wilson could just throw it away if his guy is not open. All game long they burned the Patriots with that 6'5" guy, Chris Matthews, who was the perfect big target for a play at the back of the end zone or in the corner.

Throwing the ball into the heart of the defense was a terrible play call. Except for the Patriots. Roethlisberger's throw to Santonio Holmes was a much better play: http://www.nfl.com/videos/pittsburg.../Santonio-Holmes-Super-Bowl-XLIII-game-winner

I fully agree that it sucks in a way to have the game remembered for that interception, and the criticism heaped on Pete Carroll. Brady was brilliant in the 4th quarter and owned the "legion of gloom."

I watched the game on the DVR again about halfway through the Bruins last game of the season. They were sleepwalking through another loss and I needed something to get past their collective suckitude.

goheels22002 said:

Seattle was not in situation where it "had to pass." Carroll had a timeout left with 26 seconds left when they snapped the ball (Belichick had two left.) Carroll had plenty of time to run two rushing plays if needed before calling a timeout. A QB sneak made more sense on 2nd and 1. Or, of course, Lynch.

Belichick and Brady would have probably run a QB sneak right there. Wilson is a terrific running QB and he posed a lot of problems.

And, of all the pass plays available from the 1-yard line, that was one of the least safe passing options. A fade into the corner of the end zone is much safer, or a pass to the back of the end zone where Wilson could just throw it away if his guy is not open. All game long they burned the Patriots with that 6'5" guy, Chris Matthews, who was the perfect big target for a play at the back of the end zone or in the corner.

Throwing the ball into the heart of the defense was a terrible play call. Except for the Patriots. Roethlisberger's throw to Santonio Holmes was a much better play: http://www.nfl.com/videos/pittsburg.../Santonio-Holmes-Super-Bowl-XLIII-game-winner

I fully agree that it sucks in a way to have the game remembered for that interception, and the criticism heaped on Pete Carroll. Brady was brilliant in the 4th quarter and owned the "legion of gloom."

I watched the game on the DVR again about halfway through the Bruins last game of the season. They were sleepwalking through another loss and I needed something to get past their collective suckitude.

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For a disciplined offense there should have been enough time for two running plays before a timeout. Seattle's offense isn't that disciplined. Watch how long it took them to get lined up that entire final drive.

Also, a quick slant is hardly the "heart" of a goal line D with 3 corners.

Wheelman said:

I disagree, Brady would never have let that happened. He would have been running his o-line up there as soon as he saw the refs let the play go. He would have been ready to try to catch the defense off guard and quicksnap it if they were not ready. I do fault them for losing time getting to the line. That's all on Russell Wilson.

Great point! Good clear replays did save a booth timeout.

Since everyone in the world is calling Pete's decision one of the worst in the history of the game I suppose it's only fair to credit Belichick with a "huge" assist. Fair enough!

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thanks for the nice words in points 2 and 3.
since point 1 falls in the category of the unknowable, I can't disagree with the Brady comparison. But comparing another qb's actions to what brady would have done doesn't mean that the other qb was horrible, just that he wasn't as good as the GOAT at a particular moment. a high standard, indeed

PatsFanSince74 said:

First, I share your obsession with this play. So, thanks for taking the time to do this analysis.

So, I watched the tape, stopping and starting, from the 0:47 point several times. We're talking mini-microseconds here, but what I see is that Wilson's feet are planted when he throws and that he moves after the ball has left his hand. Does that mean he was throwing off balance and trying to force the ball for the reasons you suggest or just following through? Only one person knows the answer to that question and I doubt he would admit it (until he writes his post-retirement book) if he did throw a ball he shouldn't have thrown.

I've also watched that sideline tape several times before and watched it again using your link. Thanks.

Two things jumped out at me from the first time I saw it.

One, that Wilson is clueless as to what happened. I think Tom Brady, Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers would not have been clueless. I think that's the difference between Great and Very Good.

Two, that the Coach (QB Coach? OC?) to whom he is speaking is completely silent. We have to be careful what we read into that. Maybe he's an experienced guy who knows that NFL Films is taping the exchange? Maybe he's mad about the call ? Or, maybe he's mad at Wilson (see Number One above) and doesn't want to say anything?

Thanks again.

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For my Wilson-is-a-smurf theory... check out 1:24. On tippy toes and looking like the statue of liberty... he ain't got that ball back by his ear. Or more like he does, then stands on his tip toes and delivers way over his own head at the top of a stretch. This just doesn't look like a high percentage way to make an accurate throw... it looks like an adaptation b/c the passing lanes ain't there, and he requires a really open lane cuz he's a dwarf.


Meh, maybe I'm making too much of it. Wilson's own explanation seems to be that he has no idea what the defense is doing (but why would he, right? "We just do what we do good enough and it doesn't matter....")

PatsFanSince74 said:

thanks for the nice words in points 2 and 3.
since point 1 falls in the category of the unknowable, I can't disagree with the Brady comparison. But comparing another qb's actions to what brady would have done doesn't mean that the other qb was horrible, just that he wasn't as good as the GOAT at a particular moment. a high standard, indeed

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You're right, it doesn't and I'm not calling him horrible but it doesn't change the fact that that was on Russell Wilson. Perhaps I have too high expectations but I do expect every QB in the NFL in a 2 minute offense to make sure they can get the play off without calling a timeout.

Rob0729 said:

It was a bad play call because it was predictable. The Seahawks had such a tendency to call this play in the red zone that the Patriots practiced to defend this very play. The second the Pats saw the personnel Carroll sent on the field, the Pats knew it was likely this was the play they were going to run. In a critical situation like this, calling a passing play that the other team was ready because you always run it is a bad play.

Calling a passing play was not a bad idea. Calling this passing play was.

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The play is predictable , but if executed is tough to stop.The stats were posted before but the odds of an interception in that situation were in the low single digits .Denver with Peyton run that play call on the goal line a ton and people still don't stop them, and many other NFL teams do so as well. Not all plays are about tricking people: execution is a huge part of play success.

PatsFanInVa said:

For my Wilson-is-a-smurf theory... check out 1:24. On tippy toes and looking like the statue of liberty... he ain't got that ball back by his ear. Or more like he does, then stands on his tip toes and delivers way over his own head at the top of a stretch. This just doesn't look like a high percentage way to make an accurate throw... it looks like an adaptation b/c the passing lanes ain't there, and he requires a really open lane cuz he's a dwarf.


Meh, maybe I'm making too much of it. Wilson's own explanation seems to be that he has no idea what the defense is doing (but why would he, right? "We just do what we do good enough and it doesn't matter....")

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First of all, I've been saying out here since the morning after the game that Wilson deserves a lot more blame for this play than he is given: he tips the play by looking at Lockette and Kearse a split second before the snap, he fails to recognize that the pick is busted and he throws it in the wrong place despite that fact...and, he's clueless after the fact as to what happened so his situational awareness was bad...the difference, as i said above, between "very good" and "great." So, we're on the same page there.

Your comment got me looking at a lot of RW highlight videos and there seems to be no pattern as to how he sets his feet when he throws. In this case, one foot is planted and the other is leaving the ground as he throws. He then hops after the ball has left his hand.

If you look at a dozen or more videos, you see: a) that he nearly always has "happy feet," unlike Brady who is grounded every second unless he's moving up in the pocket; b) when he drops back and a play develops, he usually throws in a conventional way with the plant foot in place and the other foot leaving the ground only on his follow through but at other times his motion is a lot like this one: happy feet, one foot leaving the ground as he throws rather than as part of his follow through. This even happens when he's rolling out and occasionally both of his feet are off the ground under those circumstances.

So, I think you're reading a bit too much into this, but that doesn't take away from his other errors on this play.