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Why I'm pessimistic


Ken Canin

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I'm pessimistic about the outcome of this report, for several reasons.

- Having had considerable physics training, it is obvious to me that there is no evidence of impropriety by the Patriots whatsoever. Despite that, much of the media took the allegations seriously, some scientists took them seriously - even Belichick seemed to take them seriously. Even some people on this board have said "everyone does it" as if the Patriots did something, rather than "nothing happened". That demonstrates that these allegations have a kind of stickiness to them that is hard to wash off.

- The fact that so many exaggerated and damaging leaks were released just before the Super Bowl demonstrates that the NFL is biased against the Pats: not only were the leakers of the false information obviously biased, but the belated and insipid corrections the NFL eventually released demonstrate pervasive institutional bias. This is a problem because the law firm doing the investigating was hired by the NFL.

- The fact the media put so much credence in the word of anonymous source in implausible anti-Patriots schemes shows the media is mainly biased against the Pats. Also a problem, because it means that the law firm's PR will be better if it releases an anti-Pats report.

- This investigation is probably becoming more wide-ranging than just the balls. These kind of investigations led by law firms have a way of eventually encompassing everything, especially when the firm is paid hourly. The play given to that absurd story about the Patriots person giving a ball to an official illustrates this.

- Here I'm going to say something that will only sound believable to those of you with experience in litigation: it is virtually impossible to plow through an entire organization's emails and records and not find something suspicious. Organizations, even sophisticated businesses, are made up of many employees, and there is no way, there is no chance, that at least one of them did not email something that would look bad excerpted on the front page of the Times.

You see, in litigation, the first thing one side does is try and get every possible record from the other side (called "discovery"). There's *always* something. If there's not, there's always something that can be taken a bit out of context and spun to be something. It's just how people are, particularly people without experience in this. As long as the law firm doing the investigating is able to get all of the Pats records and emails - and because of the bad publicity that would go along with a claim that the Pats are "not cooperating", they well might - there is very little chance that the firm won't be able to find something damaging to quote.

And that's true for sophisticated organizations that are used to being sued, are used to discovery: financial firms, software giants, police departments, movie studios. A sports team that is made up of people who are chosen for their expertise in football, not in composing bland emails, just isn't likely not to have something someone wrote that is either damaging or can be spun to be damaging.

- The fact that this very simple investigation, one that should take about half-a-day with a high school physics book, is taking so long, strongly suggests to me that the firm is on a fishing expedition against the Pats. And since the media and the NFL both hate the Pats with a passion, there is no reason for the expedition not to continue until something is found, and something always will be.
 
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What e-mails? We are talking about a football game.
 
I wrote a long response in another thread here but bottom line is Columbia will show why patriots balls were down PSI. The length of the investigation is because they are looking into the Colts, the NFL, the sting, the lies etc... and that will take a while. This is more than the PSI being down. If it were not, then it would have been over long ago.
 
I wrote a long response in another thread here but bottom line is Columbia will show why patriots balls were down PSI. The length of the investigation is because they are looking into the Colts, the NFL, the sting, the lies etc... and that will take a while. This is more than the PSI being down. If it were not, then it would have been over long ago.
I'm cautiously optimistic that this is the case, but the NFL hierarchy being who and what they are, I would not be surprised if the Pats are penalized for permitting the laws of nature to supercede poorly constructed NFL rules.
 
bottom line is Columbia will show why patriots balls were down PSI.

There are a couple of ways attorneys can elicit expert opinion that supports their case:

(1) Just ask 50 experts. Maybe 49 disagree with you, but only report on the one that agrees.

(2) Many experts testify (or in this case, consult) as primary or secondary vocation. Sometimes, these experts will, as part of their job, infer the opinion the attorney wants and then provide that.

(3) Carefully manage the information that the expert is provided and on which he is giving his opinion.

In this case, strategy (3) is by far the most likely strategy the investigation will take. For example, an investigator might propose this question to an expert:

"Could temperature alone account for a 2 psi decrease?"

An expert would truthfully say "no" if he interprets "2" as "2.000". But of course the "2 psi" is coming from a number of imprecise layman estimates of various true psi values. (When someone says "a pressure of 11 psi", for instance, without more information one does not know whether it is exactly 11.000 psi that was measured, or whether rounding to the nearest integer was done, so that the reading reported was between 10.5 and 11.5 psi).

Even if the expert would believe a 1.6 psi (for example) decrease is due to temperature, if the questions is phrased properly, the expert can appear to support the outcome the attorney wants.

I think (3) is most likely what will happen, because that's similar to how the press was able to seem to elicit damaging opinions from that physics professor who was quoted as distrusting Belichick: he accepted unreliable hypothetical information provided by a reporter to give accurate but misleading interpretations.

Summary: experts, from Columbia or otherwise, aren't a panacea.
 
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There are a couple of ways attorneys can elicit expert opinion that supports what benefits their case in situation like this:

(1) Just ask 50 experts. Maybe 49 disagree with you, but only report on the one that agrees.

(2) Many experts testify (or in this case, consult) as primary or secondary vocation. Sometimes, these experts can provide the opinion the attorney is seeking.

(3) Carefully manage the information that the expert is provided and on which he is giving his opinion.

I

I think you are way over thinking this. This investigation is more about the botched NFL investigation than an investigation on why the Patriots balls when measured at the half (an unprecedented act) were down on PSI. Columbia will do the same experiments Headsmart lab etc... did and it will have the same results. That is the beauty of Science. It is scientifically impossible for the balls to not have lost PSI. The Patriots don't have to answer for that as science answers it, the Patriots don't have to answer for the Colts balls etc... The answers that must be investigated and take time are the ones I outlined, What the Colts did and when, What the NFL did, What the officials did, the ball theft, an official introducing an unapproved game ball in, the Reffs giving Patriots Colts balls to use, Kensil and others actions, before, during and after the game. This is why this is taking so long

Columbia will have had their end wrapped up 2 months ago. I will also point out that Kraft is a Columbia guy and big supporter so they will not screw this up. This is high school level science work. The easy thing at that point would have been a simple statement that NFL investigated, no indication of any tampering, there are atmospheric elements which affect balls, we will review and adjust our policies and procedures as needed.

Wells is looking into the Colts and the NFL itself.
 
FYI here is the windshield pits story I was talking about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Windshield_Pitting_Epidemic

Teams never measured other teams footballs PSI till someone did against the Patriots, then as others did it, only on Patriots balls, they saw PSI had fallen and determined that the Patriots must have done it rather than figure out the science behind it.
 
It all depends on Kraft. Either he buckles and caves and makes his franchise the cheater franchise, or he tells Goodell to go to hell.
 
It all depends on Kraft. Either he buckles and caves and makes his franchise the cheater franchise, or he tells Goodell to go to hell.

That has already happened. In spy gate the Patriots acknowledged there was evidence they had taped from the spot they were no longer allowed to tape from and Kraft rolled immediately and they took big sanctions. This case is the opposite. The league leaked accusations , the Patriots investigated the accusations and both Belichick and Kraft refuted them and Kraft told them they better prove it or apologies are in order.
 
Why I'm optimistic

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Wells Report will have almost nothing to do with the Patriots. It is an investigation into the officials and the Colts. #DeflateGate

— Sharks of Vegas (@SharksOfVegas) April 11, 2015

The media are the only ones that centered it around the Patriots.

— Sharks of Vegas (@SharksOfVegas) April 11, 2015
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Makes sense, if it was about deflating balls the investigation would have lasted a few days, since its been ongoing this long there's obviously something more going on.
I remember Curran stating that Goodell was possibly using this Wells report to investigate unprofessional behavior on a bunch of his insubordinate underlings and to justify a big purge of NFL head office staff.
 
Why I'm optimistic

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Wells Report will have almost nothing to do with the Patriots. It is an investigation into the officials and the Colts. #DeflateGate

— Sharks of Vegas (@SharksOfVegas) April 11, 2015

The media are the only ones that centered it around the Patriots.

— Sharks of Vegas (@SharksOfVegas) April 11, 2015
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Makes sense, if it was about deflating balls the investigation would have lasted a few days, since its been ongoing this long there's obviously something more going on.
I remember Curran stating that Goodell was possibly using this Wells report to investigate unprofessional behavior on a bunch of his insubordinate underlings and to justify a big purge of NFL head office staff.

Columbia won't have screw this up. They play football on Kraft field there and are not going to screw a billionaire alumni who gives millions. It will just the same results as we saw in a dozen experiments before, natural forces cause deflation and Columbia was done with this the week they got it months ago.
 
Ken Canin

Hi Ken, are you a lawyer yourself?
We all look at the world thru the filter of our own professions. My brother’s a cop, and everything is “cops vs. robbers vs. civilians (aka, sheep)”.
Other family members are medical, & look primarily at the medical aspects of everything.
I’m a mechanical engineer, and look first at the engineering aspects of things.

I gotta tell ya that I, and the vast majority of competent, experienced engineers & scientists, look with GREAT amusement when lawyers, politicians, religious leaders (or followers) & courts THINK that they have the power to determine reality by legislation, a court judgment or passing some rule.

If there were ANYTHING subtle, tricky or complicated about this whole issue, I’d give your assertions & concerns some weight.

Fortunately, this whole issue is trivially simple. And it is trivially simple to PROVE, 100%, with ZERO doubt.

Having had considerable physics training, it is obvious to me that there is no evidence of impropriety by the Patriots whatsoever.

No, no, no, Ken.
GROW A PAIR, Ken.
;-)

It is obvious, it is completely provable, that the Pats did not let any air out of those balls.

That is entirely different than “we can’t prove that they did."

Despite that, much of the media took the allegations seriously, some scientists took them seriously - even Belichick seemed to take them seriously.

Taking something seriously or not does NOT change the correct answer one iota.
The serious answer is exactly the same as the frivolous answer.

The fact that a bunch of people took the charges seriously simply means that they take football, and following its rules, seriously. As they should.

The fact that they had no clue how the pressure must change with temperature means that they are somewhat technically clueless.

Now, someone who takes something serious, but is technically clueless about that subject, should WANT to, should DEMAND to, be instructed in that subject.

And this will be exactly how we will be able to tell honest from dishonest Pats critics in the future.

HONEST football fans who, thru ignorance, currently suspect the Pats of deflating the balls, will want to learn exactly how pressure & temperature interact inside footballs.

DISHONEST football fans, people who don’t care about the truth of the matter, will demonstrate their dishonesty & their prejudice by not wanting to hear or learn about these issues.

They will not talk about the science or the numbers.
They will generally start out their defenses with phrases such as “All I know is …”.

At which point, I generally agree with them.
“Yes, that IS ‘all you know’. And ‘all you know’ happens to be wrong.!”

Dishonest people don’t matter in the slightest.

… demonstrates that the NFL is biased against the Pats: not only were the leakers of the false information obviously biased, but the belated and insipid corrections the NFL eventually released demonstrate pervasive institutional bias ...

"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance."

They were ignorant, not biased (IMHO).
They didn’t understand how pressure & temp interact.

Hopefully, after the Wells report, they will understand.

The fact the media put so much credence in the word of anonymous source in implausible anti-Patriots schemes shows the media is mainly biased against the Pats.

In general, I disagree. A FEW of the media are rabidly anti-Pats.

The vast majority of the media simply don’t give a rat’s ass about the truth, and LOVE a good lynching.

Especially if it involves a fall from grace of a Golden Boy (TB12).
Or their imagined confirmation of evil incarnate, BB.

IF/WHEN Wells comes out with a report that exonerates the Pats (as I firmly believe will happen), the media will NEVER examine their role in this fiasco. They will fall back on “we were just doing our job”, and “some experts told us that the temp difference couldn’t explain the pressure difference”, and other lame excuses for the media’s CONSUMMATE INCOMPETENCE in this matter.

However, IF the league is so dumb that they come out with a report that says, “we think the Pats cheated, but they just can’t prove it", then it will be trivially easy for any number of competent labs to publish 100% conclusive results proving that Wells & the league are wrong & incompetent.

Proof that the media HAS a bias would be the media suppressing that story.
Proof that the media does NOT have a bias would be the media then turning on Goodell & the league office like a pack of junkyard dogs.

I believe that, if the league should be so dumb as to follow this path, the media (in general) will follow the junkyard dog path. They don’t care who they lynch, as long as it’s good & bloody.

But, as I say, I don't think that Wells & the league are dumb enough to publish the 2nd conclusion.
__

Finally, “hired tech guns”…

The correct solution to “bad science” is NOT “throw all the science out.”
The correct solution to “bad science” is “good science”.

The testing has already been done.
There is zero doubt about the outcome. The temperature difference was responsible for 1.5 psi pressure drop, and Tom Brady’s preference (12.5 psi vs. 13.0 psi nominal) is responsible for the other 0.5 psi drop.

The total is 2 psi below the league nominal of 13.0 psig.

This result is incontrovertible.

ANY expert who gets up on a stand, or formally states that the pressure drop due to temperature will be only 0.5 psi is no longer an expert. He has become an ignorant moron.

Anyone who states that the Colts balls did NOT drop an equal amount (1.5 psi below their set point in the locker room) is an ignorant moron.

Anyone who asserts that only ONE of the Pats balls was 2 psi below the league nominal, but the rest of them were “just a tad under the minimum”, is an ignorant moron.

Have I given you a fair taste for exactly how crusty, old fart engineers answer simple technical questions??

In addition to be crusty, insulting, pompous, patronizing & arrogant, (NONE of which we view as character flaws, by the way), we have one other redeeming feature with our answers to trivially simple questions …

… we are correct.

You can “baffle with the BS” in complex matters.
In simple matters like this one, science crushes legal shenanigans.

I really, Really, REALLY hope that some lawyer, or some reporter, or some ex-football player who never took a single physics class in his life (yes, you, Jerome Bettis), somewhere, anywhere, thinks that the proper way to address pompous old farts like me is to be pompous & arrogant in response, while defending the wrong answer.

That’s always GREAT FUN.!!
 
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Columbia won't have screw this up. They play football on Kraft field there and are not going to screw a billionaire alumni who gives millions. It will just the same results as we saw in a dozen experiments before, natural forces cause deflation and Columbia was done with this the week they got it months ago.

This will be a bit of a double-edged sword, for some juvenile "conspiracy theory" types.

"Columbia gave them the answer that Kraft wanted because they didn't want to risk losing his money."

Stupid. But it WILL appear from those thrashing around for any reason that they can find to reject the opposite conclusion.
 
Ken Canin

Hi Ken, are you a lawyer yourself?
We all look at the world thru the filter of our own professions. My brother’s a cop, and everything is “cops vs. robbers vs. civilians (aka, sheep)”.
Other family members are medical, & look primarily at the medical aspects of everything.
I’m a mechanical engineer, and look first at the engineering aspects of things.

I gotta tell ya that I, and the vast majority of competent, experienced engineers & scientists, look with GREAT amusement when lawyers, politicians, religious leaders (or followers) & courts THINK that they have the power to determine reality by legislation, a court judgment or passing some rule.

If there were ANYTHING subtle, tricky or complicated about this whole issue, I’d give your assertions & concerns some weight.

Fortunately, this whole issue is trivially simple. And it is trivially simple to PROVE, 100%, with ZERO doubt.



No, no, no, Ken.
GROW A PAIR, Ken.
;-)

It is obvious, it is completely provable, that the Pats did not let any air out of those balls.

That is entirely different than “we can’t prove that they did."



Taking something seriously or not does NOT change the correct answer one iota.
The serious answer is exactly the same as the frivolous answer.

The fact that a bunch of people took the charges seriously simply means that they take football, and following its rules, seriously. As they should.

The fact that they had no clue how the pressure must change with temperature means that they are somewhat technically clueless.

Now, someone who takes something serious, but is technically clueless about that subject, should WANT to, should DEMAND to, be instructed in that subject.

And this will be exactly how we will be able to tell honest from dishonest Pats critics in the future.

HONEST football fans who, thru ignorance, currently suspect the Pats of deflating the balls, will want to learn exactly how pressure & temperature interact inside footballs.

DISHONEST football fans, people who don’t care about the truth of the matter, will demonstrate their dishonesty & their prejudice by not wanting to hear or learn about these issues.

They will not talk about the science or the numbers.
They will generally start out their defenses with phrases such as “All I know is …”.

At which point, I generally agree with them.
“Yes, that IS ‘all you know’. And ‘all you know’ happens to be wrong.!”

Dishonest people don’t matter in the slightest.



"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance."

They were ignorant, not biased (IMHO).
They didn’t understand how pressure & temp interact.

Hopefully, after the Wells report, they will understand.



In general, I disagree. A FEW of the media are rabidly anti-Pats.

The vast majority of the media simply don’t give a rat’s ass about the truth, and LOVE a good lynching.

Especially if it involves a fall from grace of a Golden Boy (TB12).
Or their imagined confirmation of evil incarnate, BB.

IF/WHEN Wells comes out with a report that exonerates the Pats (as I firmly believe will happen), the media will NEVER examine their role in this fiasco. They will fall back on “we were just doing our job”, and “some experts told us that the temp difference couldn’t explain the pressure difference”, and other lame excuses for the media’s CONSUMMATE INCOMPETENCE in this matter.

However, IF the league is so dumb that they come out with a report that says, “we think the Pats cheated, but they just can’t prove it", then it will be trivially easy for any number of competent labs to publish 100% conclusive results proving that Wells & the league are wrong & incompetent.

Proof that the media HAS a bias would be the media suppressing that story.
Proof that the media does NOT have a bias would be the media then turning on Goodell & the league office like a pack of junkyard dogs.

I believe that, if the league should be so dumb as to follow this path, the media (in general) will follow the junkyard dog path. They don’t care who they lynch, as long as it’s good & bloody.

But, as I say, I don't think that Wells & the league are dumb enough to publish the 2nd conclusion.
__

Finally, “hired tech guns”…

The correct solution to “bad science” is NOT “throw all the science out.”
The correct solution to “bad science” is “good science”.

The testing has already been done.
There is zero doubt about the outcome. The temperature difference was responsible for 1.5 psi pressure drop, and Tom Brady’s preference (12.5 psi vs. 13.0 psi nominal) is responsible for the other 0.5 psi drop.

The total is 2 psi below the league nominal of 13.0 psig.

This result is incontrovertible.

ANY expert who gets up on a stand, or formally states that the pressure drop due to temperature will be only 0.5 psi is no longer an expert. He has become an ignorant moron.

Anyone who states that the Colts balls did NOT drop an equal amount (1.5 psi below their set point in the locker room) is an ignorant moron.

Anyone who asserts that only ONE of the Pats balls was 2 psi below the league nominal, but the rest of them were “just a tad under the minimum”, is an ignorant moron.

Have I given you a fair taste for exactly how crusty, old fart engineers answer simple technical questions??

In addition to be crusty, insulting, pompous, patronizing & arrogant, (NONE of which we view as character flaws, by the way), we have one other redeeming feature with our answers to trivially simple questions …

… we are correct.

You can “baffle with the BS” in complex matters.
In simple matters like this one, science crushes legal shenanigans.

I really, Really, REALLY hope that some lawyer, or some reporter, or some ex-football player who never took a single physics class in his life (yes, you, Jerome Bettis), somewhere, anywhere, thinks that the proper way to address pompous old farts like me is to be pompous & arrogant in response, while defending the wrong answer.

That’s always GREAT FUN.!!
That must be some SPECTACULAR blow you got there...
 
This will be a bit of a double-edged sword, for some juvenile "conspiracy theory" types.

"Columbia gave them the answer that Kraft wanted because they didn't want to risk losing his money."

Stupid. But it WILL appear from those thrashing around for any reason that they can find to reject the opposite conclusion.

Understood. Unless they can get MIT to say otherwise it won't matter. The science is clear and science clears the Patriots 100%. I have been told that Columbia had this nailed down shortly after it was presented to them. The fact the investigation has been so lengthy is because it is about how this sting came to pass and investigating the actions of the people with prior knowledge of the sting. The Patriots were set up unintentionally as the dim wits behind this though the Patriots actually did it so they felt there was 0 risk putting Kravits etc... on it. This is why they thought it would be over in 3 days because they took the psi decline as proof the Patriots did it. Then ESPN etc... jumped on board. Kraft, Belichick and Brady need there lawyers to send a ton of demand letters to ESPN for their actions and the wildly slanderous and libelous statements coming from their outlets. People at the NFL are going down for this, not for looking into a concern but the sting and the leaks. The Colts will get a black eye at best and there is a slim possibility more if proof comes they let air out of the intercepted ball to make their claim more compelling.

Let us all remember, Kensil did all this hours after the Patriots filed a complaint against the Jets.
 
By illegally measuring the PSI of the ball at halftime Kensil, by definition, let air out of it.
 
By illegally measuring the PSI of the ball at halftime Kensil, by definition, let air out of it.

We don't know if this was in his authority to do. If it were not a sting, I would not even have trouble with him testing based on a complaint. It was the firestorm started by the Colts and NFl sources who condemned the Patriots probably while the game was still going on that is the issue being investigated. There was an obvious battle going on inside the NFL where I believe the Comish was clueless, while the guys behind this went rouge to get their payback on the Patriots for something they believed they had proof positive of. Then when it started falling apart there were the half truth and deceitful leaks from NFL sources as they tried to save their own skin. When Kraft smacked them down, Goodell had to get his operation in order. Wells will likely give Goodell the ammo he needs to clear house. Whether Goodell stays is up to the owners. I think he is completely ineffectual, shown incompetent and unable to handle any adversity and was like a deer in the headlights dealing with this.
 
Goodell was then asked if the league office properly handled the situation or if they should be at fault for prematurely staining the Patriots' reputation during the two-week buildup to Super Bowl XLIX.

"We think we made it very clear at the Super Bowl," Goodell said. "We were not making any judgments, that we were obligated as part of our role to make sure we understand the facts. Whenever there is a charge potentially of a violation of our rules, we take it very seriously, and that’s our obligation. That’s our obligation to the other 31 clubs. Ted Wells will be going through the report. If there was anything that we as a league did incorrectly, we’ll know in that report."

 
Why I'm optimistic

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Wells Report will have almost nothing to do with the Patriots. It is an investigation into the officials and the Colts. #DeflateGate

— Sharks of Vegas (@SharksOfVegas) April 11, 2015

The media are the only ones that centered it around the Patriots.

— Sharks of Vegas (@SharksOfVegas) April 11, 2015
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Makes sense, if it was about deflating balls the investigation would have lasted a few days, since its been ongoing this long there's obviously something more going on.
I remember Curran stating that Goodell was possibly using this Wells report to investigate unprofessional behavior on a bunch of his insubordinate underlings and to justify a big purge of NFL head office staff.

Sharks of Vegas have been accurate throughout this story. Buying everything they say about the investigation being centered around the Colts and the refs.
 


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