Over Inflation

If there is a fine for using under inflated footballs, what is the fine for over inflated footballs? Footballs inflated to maximum at room temperature then played with in 100 degree weather are likely to be over inflated. If there is no fine for over inflation, then how can they fine for under inflation.

As we saw with Aaron Rodgers, he openly admitted to trying to get some OVERinflated balls through the refs as often as possible, but claimed that the refs would often take some air out to get it within the 12.5 to 13.5 range.

The legal rule range is supposed to be within 12.5--13.5, but it is probably a rule that is more often than not measured simply by the eye and feel of the refs. That probably won't be the case after the whole deflategate story, as I imagine they'll be a little more careful about measuring the pressure more than in the past.

Canuck said:

If there is no fine for over inflation, then how can they fine for under inflation.

Click to expand...

Believe me, if the crybaby Colts had complained about our balls being a bit overinflated, you'd have the exact same case at hand, only it would be how we cheated by having "too much" pressure, rather than not enough.

I'm not sure why you feel that a team couldn't be fined for overinflation just the same? Whether the balls are above or below the 12.5--13.5 PSI range, they are still technically out of the range.

Obeying the universal laws of thermodynamics is a terrible scandal.

VectorPrime said:

Obeying the universal laws of thermodynamics is a terrible scandal.

Click to expand...

That tricky Bill Belichick using his evil wizarding ways to manipulate the laws of physics. Exile him I say.

supafly said:

Believe me, if the crybaby Colts had complained about our balls being a bit overinflated, you'd have the exact same case at hand, only it would be how we cheated by having "too much" pressure, rather than not enough.

I'm not sure why you feel that a team couldn't be fined for overinflation just the same?

Click to expand...

Memory is a tricky thing. I was remembering an article some one wrote that included a reference in the rule book that referred to using under inflated footballs. It looked like a simple copy and paste from the rule book. The other quotes used by multiple sources referred to tampering and using non approved footballs. The fine portion seemed to be the same as the original one I remembered. Since both were quoting the rule book, I thought they were both part of the rule book but covering different issues.

Maybe what happened after some thought is one is an old rule that was quoted and the tampering, non-approved is a newer version of the same rule.

The funny part is I am not sure what specific part of the rule book everybody is quoting. I can't find it when I read it.

Canuck said:

Memory is a tricky thing. I was remembering an article some one wrote that included a reference in the rule book that referred to using under inflated footballs. It looked like a simple copy and paste from the rule book. The other quotes used by multiple sources referred to tampering and using non approved footballs. The fine portion seemed to be the same as the original one I remembered. Since both were quoting the rule book, I thought they were both part of the rule book but covering different issues.

Maybe what happened after some thought is one is an old rule that was quoted and the tampering, non-approved is a newer version of the same rule.

The funny part is I am not sure what specific part of the rule book everybody is quoting. I can't find it when I read it.

Click to expand...

I know that the allowance is supposed to be somewhere between 12.5--13.5 PSI, although there was some mild chatter around the end of January from Goodell that they may look into changing that a bit. Either way, it was a rule that was probably rarely enforced, and now will be more closely watched due to the Colts' whining.

I'll see if I can find the specific rule for you. If I can't, I'm sure someone else will post it.

EDIT:

"The Ball must be a “Wilson,” hand selected, bearing the signature of the Commissioner of the League, Roger Goodell.


The ball shall be made up of an inflated (12 1/2 to 13 1/2 pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case (natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind. It shall have the form of a prolate spheroid and the size and weight shall be: long axis, 11 to 11 1/4 inches; long circumference, 28 to 28 1/2 inches; short circumference, 21 to 21 1/4 inches; weight, 14 to 15 ounces.


The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications. A pump is to be furnished by the home club, and the balls shall remain under the supervision of the Referee until they are delivered to the ball attendant just prior to the start of the game."

(courtesy of official NFL rulebook)

supafly said:

"The Ball must be a “Wilson,” hand selected, bearing the signature of the Commissioner of the League, Roger Goodell.

Click to expand...

No wonder Goodell didn't get fired for Ray Rice. They'd have to update both the rulebook and remake all of the game balls, and re-melt the Super Bowl trophy, mid-season. Ain't nobody got dough for that.

Canuck said:

If there is a fine for using under inflated footballs, what is the fine for over inflated footballs? Footballs inflated to maximum at room temperature then played with in 100 degree weather are likely to be over inflated. If there is no fine for over inflation, then how can they fine for under inflation.

Click to expand...

Canuck said:

If there is a fine for using under inflated footballs, what is the fine for over inflated footballs? Footballs inflated to maximum at room temperature then played with in 100 degree weather are likely to be over inflated. If there is no fine for over inflation, then how can they fine for under inflation.

Click to expand...

Because Aaron Rodgers isn't Tom Brady, because the Packers aren't the Patriots and Green Bay isn't New England. It all depends who and where it is.

Boy, you really don't get the feel precise psi measurement is overly critical when the limits are practically listed in Olde English as "12 1/2 to 13 1/2" in the rule book.

Doesn't that kinda imply it's more like a rough measure? It's not listed as 12.50 PSI at sea level, or 13.50000 atmospheric pressures.

It's more akin to saying "hey meet me a half past twelve", or "i'll take a pound and a half of your finest Swiss cheese good sir."

The media never listed the actual rule as written. If so, IMO the spirit of the rule is more apparent, where as such the range is more of a practical guideline and not so overly important.

Also... has it actually EVER been confirmed the football had been truly and officially "hand selected" at Wilson Co. as demanded by paragraph 2-1 of theses same ball handling rules? We must rise up and demand the names of the inspectors, selector(s) and transporters; as well as verifying proper custody chain procedure of the now so called, "hand selected" football to the exact hour Goodell accepted delivery and signed the ball personally with an NFL approved pen. ALL verified by notary and/or other appropriate witness of course. If not for you, do it for the good of the game!

Pfw just retweeted some account called sharks of Vegas which claims the Wells investigation is about the officials and the Colts.

Thank you all for your replies. The part of the rule book I was trying to find is the one where everybody quotes the possible 25k fine associated with it. After further investigation I found that there is something called the schedule of league fines which seems to be separate from the NFL official rule book. Yet I find no mention of it in there either.

I never knew it could be so hard to verify something that the media has been quoting.


PS: Now it seems it's from:

The NFL's game operations manual states:


Funny to me that there is no mention of the word tampering in this. Even though it means the same as above, some media like to substitute the buzz word tampering instead.


Found this article about the games operations manual.


http://operations.nfl.com/football-ops/league-governance/

jboston19 said:

Pfw just retweeted some account called sharks of Vegas which claims the Wells investigation is about the officials and the Colts.

Click to expand...

Sharks of Vegas' twitter account has been behind the idea of a Pats exoneration the entire time.

I'm not sure if this is anything "new" per se. I'm guessing that PFW probably re-tweeted the statement from awhile back. EDIT: didn't see the "new" tweets, which are basically the same exact message as January, February, and March, but it looks like there was something current from today or yesterday.

For the record--Sharks of Vegas is a sports handicapping site which gives advice on which team to pick for bettors. Their denial of any wrongdoing since day one has gained them a significant amount of attention, particularly around here. Some of the stuff has been original, some of it hasn't--but they've been adamant about the Patriots being innocent, so it's good to see someone backing the organization.

glm said:

That tricky Bill Belichick using his evil wizarding ways to manipulate the laws of physics. Exile him I say.

Click to expand...

glm said:

That tricky Bill Belichick using his evil wizarding ways to manipulate the laws of physics. Exile him I say.

Click to expand...

He is a witch, somebody get a duck!

I was going to wait until after they'd come to their ruling, but, what the hell...

Even if they fix the stupid pressure regulations, and get something that CAN be followed, they still will not be using balls that are within regulation in rainy, or sloshy snow conditions.

When the balls get soaked, they VERY QUICKLY (on the order of 10-15 minutes) absorb enough water into the leather to exceed the weight specification.

The only way to meet this requirement will be to limit the weight specification to "the ball, as inspected before the game", and NOT have it applicable, or verifiable, during the game.

Ain't this fun...??

supafly said:

Sharks of Vegas' twitter account has been behind the idea of a Pats exoneration the entire time.

Click to expand...

I don't give a flying fornication whose side the Sharks of Vegas have been/are on.

Now, Mother Nature...?
I absolutely care about, and love, the fact that she's in our corner.