How much has Brady been underpaid?

BobDigital said:

Okay. If you feel that is more appropriate and accurate I can change the title.

Edit: Also I firmly believe Brady has been underpaid as opposed to Manning being over paid.

Manning while not winning more than 1 title often has had teams with enough talent to be competitive and make the playoffs year after year. I think he is well worth the money he is getting paid. Just cause he is not Brady does not mean he is not worth every cent he is getting.

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I understand the belief that Brady is underpaid. He's the best ever, and he should always make more than Manning because Brady is better.

But I do also think Manning was overpaid. Using the same methodology as above, Rodgers is around $13.3M and his career started later when the salary cap was larger. That $13M mark seems to be the number for elite QBs, and Manning is certainly one of them, but he is not the best of them.

Brady deserves a lot more just because he's way better, and the play-offs prove it.

So I can accept you thinking Brady is underpaid. But Manning feels overpaid too. If Rodgers and Brees are in that $13M mark, Manning belongs around there too. Maybe a touch more, but not $5M+ more.

AzorianPats said:

Fortunately for Pats fans, Brady really isn't a union guy. Not that he'll play for the vet minimum though. Not that he'll play for the vet minimum though.

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It doesn't matter if he's "a union guy." The original statement stands. The union wouldn't let him play for the minimum. It won't let players take massive hometown discounts in order to give their owners more profit, or even more cap room. This contract may simply be the smallest one that everyone involved, including the union, would allow to happen.

Guaranteed money = paid. He traded some non guaranteed money for guaranteed which is pretty valuable for a 37 year old.

betterthanthealternative said:

It doesn't matter if he's "a union guy." The original statement stands. The union wouldn't let him play for the minimum. It won't let players take massive hometown discounts in order to give their owners more profit, or even more cap room. This contract may simply be the smallest one that everyone involved, including the union, would allow to happen.

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Do they have the power to nix such a contact?

YOUGOTMOSSED said:

I guess when you have a sugar mamma with a 9 figure net worth, you can make some sacrifices. Seriously, at this point, why can he just play for the veteran minimum and give us mad cap space?

GISELE BUNDCHEN NET WORTH-$320 MILLION
http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-celebrities/models/gisele-bundchen-net-worth/

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The NFLPA would freak out.

Given the location of Brady's Brookline digs, who his neighbor is, and his undying loyalty to the organization....I don't think it is a giant leap to presume that Brady has a lifetime position within the organization and I could easily envision Brady as the #2 executive behind Jonathan once Robert hits the pasture [unless BB has that position lined up (I don't see BB pulling a Parcells)] I certainly hope TB doesn't follow many of the former greats who hustle the endorsement/analyst scene because I believe that cheapens their legacy...ie...Marino. Given Brady has been selective in his endorsement opportunities taking a more refined approach than say .....Pizza Forehead, I believe Brady will seek a future with substance and meaning....ie...Cam Neely. It takes guts for these stars to bypass the easy route and I don't see Brady as someone who wants to earn his future living based on celebrity.

I never used to care much about a player's salary, but because of the cap I understand the importance. I'd still rather spent my time enjoying the happenings on the field because seeing the athletes perform is what it's all about to me.

Btw, the money in sports has gone way over the top. I remember the day that Yaz first stepped on the field as a 100K player and was booed when he trotted down to first on a grounder. Now we give athletes 100 million instead and some of them don't think they need work hard or hustle all the time. My the times are changing.

convertedpatsfan said:

I understand the belief that Brady is underpaid. He's the best ever, and he should always make more than Manning because Brady is better.

But I do also think Manning was overpaid. Using the same methodology as above, Rodgers is around $13.3M and his career started later when the salary cap was larger. That $13M mark seems to be the number for elite QBs, and Manning is certainly one of them, but he is not the best of them.

Brady deserves a lot more just because he's way better, and the play-offs prove it.

So I can accept you thinking Brady is underpaid. But Manning feels overpaid too. If Rodgers and Brees are in that $13M mark, Manning belongs around there too. Maybe a touch more, but not $5M+ more.

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Rodgers is an interesting example to mention. I looked into him but did not want to touch that situation. I think he was basically extended on his first big contract after 1 year starting. So the first big contract was not really the same as the others.

Manning/Brees/Brady all had 4-6 years starting in the league before they were signed to long term deals.

Rodgers was drafted in in 2005 and really only played in 2008 then was signed to his first extended contract in 2009 (after going 6-10 in 2008 in a year that was okay but not amazing)

I think if he had a few more years starting and more of a chance to show consistency and hone his game before stepping to the table he would have gotten a much better deal.

I think his 2013 contract is more of an indicator of the kind of money he should have been getting which is much more in line with what Manning has got it appears.

the title of this thread, and the topic itself is flawed.

It's not about how much Brady was underpaid, it should be how much OTHER QB's have been overpaid. Brady understands that football is a team game, and in order to win, the pie needs to not be given to just one player. there is a reason that Brady has 4 titles and 6 appearances and the closest anyone else comes that is active right now is 1 win and 2 chances.

Has brady been underpaid? I don't think so, I think he set the bar at what an elite QB on an elite Team SHOULD be paid. Some player think getting a big contract makes you an Elite QB, when in reality Winning makes you Elite, and in order to win you need to have a good team.

Isn't the more important question how much of the salary cap did the salary represent in any given year?

Galeb said:

The NFLPA would freak out.

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Yeah, I figured it was something like that. But isn't his current contract already lower than the likes of Alex Smith, Andy Dalton, Eli Manning, Jay Cutler, and Sam Bradford?
Look like the only QB's of note earning less than him are the ones still on their rookie deals.
I'm sure the NFLPA is already unhappy about that. I mean, why not just go one step further?

Wretch said:

Isn't the more important question how much of the salary cap did the salary represent in any given year?

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I tried to do it by salary cap hit but could not get all the numbers.

chasa said:

the title of this thread, and the topic itself is flawed.

It's not about how much Brady was underpaid, it should be how much OTHER QB's have been overpaid. Brady understands that football is a team game, and in order to win, the pie needs to not be given to just one player. there is a reason that Brady has 4 titles and 6 appearances and the closest anyone else comes that is active right now is 1 win and 2 chances.

Has brady been underpaid? I don't think so, I think he set the bar at what an elite QB on an elite Team SHOULD be paid. Some player think getting a big contract makes you an Elite QB, when in reality Winning makes you Elite, and in order to win you need to have a good team.

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Disagree here. You are IMO looking at it a much different way than me. Looking at it your way you are correct. If I were to ask "how much would you need to pay an elite QB while also giving him a great chance to win year after year" Brady has done it 100% right. No dispute; doing it his way has helped himself and helped his team knock on the door every year.

That is not parity though. If we were to instead ask the question "how much should we pay elite QBs so that teams without elite QBs have an equal shot to win then Brady has been underpaid.

The ideal NFL would be we pay each player in such a way where talent and ability to win is completely equally distributed. Right now it is clear the amount Brady is getting paid is not enough if that is the standard we want to go by which the NFL does I think.

Basically if we wanted to make a game fair the Pats would be paying Brady more forcing the Pats to let go other good players which other teams can pick up to level the playing field which is clearly not level.

Now another way to look at it is look at Peyton Manning's career. He has been paid more than Brady but still won a SB and went to 2 others in 17 years. It looks to me the amount he was paid was pretty fair as it brought his team down to the rest of the pack a bit more which is what the NFL wants.

That is the angle I am coming at it from when I said he has been under paid, I hope that makes it more clear. Also I think Brady probably should have been paid more than Manning frankly cause he is better and it would have given other teams a better chance to win while evening the playing field.

As a Patriots fan though I am glad he did not do that and the NFL couldn't make him : P

YOUGOTMOSSED said:

Yeah, I figured it was something like that. But isn't his current contract already lower than the likes of Alex Smith, Andy Dalton, Eli Manning, Jay Cutler, and Sam Bradford?
Look like the only QB's of note earning less than him are the ones still on their rookie deals.
I'm sure the NFLPA is already unhappy about that. I mean, why not just go one step further?

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Well in saying that you also say that Brady would want to play for minimum salary. We have seen nothing point to that. That's a huge step from his pay today.

I do not understand the mechanisms by which "the union" allows or disallows a player's contract, as negotiated by the agent with the team under the terms of the CBA.

I thought the union has input into the CBA... not that the Union sits at the table as a third party.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. What's the provision for union review of each contract?

Marinlik said:

Well in saying that you also say that Brady would want to play for minimum salary. We have seen nothing point to that. That's a huge step from his pay today.

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I'm curious about whether an owner and a franchise player could have some kind of private understanding where the owner would agree to sell some ownership interest in the franchise at a discount if the player agrees to stay with the team at a discount until he retires. It may be a salary cap work around but impossible to police if it's done sub rosa.

BobDigital said:

I tried to do it by salary cap hit but could not get all the numbers.



Disagree here. You are IMO looking at it a much different way than me. Looking at it your way you are correct. If I were to ask "how much would you need to pay an elite QB while also giving him a great chance to win year after year" Brady has done it 100% right. No dispute; doing it his way has helped himself and helped his team knock on the door every year.

That is not parity though. If we were to instead ask the question "how much should we pay elite QBs so that teams without elite QBs have an equal shot to win then Brady has been underpaid.

The ideal NFL would be we pay each player in such a way where talent and ability to win is completely equally distributed. Right now it is clear the amount Brady is getting paid is not enough if that is the standard we want to go by which the NFL does I think.

Basically if we wanted to make a game fair the Pats would be paying Brady more forcing the Pats to let go other good players which other teams can pick up to level the playing field which is clearly not level.

Now another way to look at it is look at Peyton Manning's career. He has been paid more than Brady but still won a SB and went to 2 others in 17 years. It looks to me the amount he was paid was pretty fair as it brought his team down to the rest of the pack a bit more which is what the NFL wants.

That is the angle I am coming at it from when I said he has been under paid, I hope that makes it more clear. Also I think Brady probably should have been paid more than Manning frankly cause he is better and it would have given other teams a better chance to win while evening the playing field.

As a Patriots fan though I am glad he did not do that and the NFL couldn't make him : P

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This logic is insane.

The idea that paying an "elite" qb an absurd amount as a means of balancing teams is straight up crazy talk. That's not parity, its teams TRYING to keep pace with the patriots, which are imo the only ELITE franchise currently in the nfl.

Because there is a Salary cap Parity is no longer about spending the same amount of money, as every team HAS to spend roughly the same amount, Parity comes into play in the form of 1.) Better opportunities to draft blue chippers from college, and 2.)Easier strength of schedules. Every year the patriots win the AFC they are automatically going to play the other division winners.

These two things combined to give the idea that any team has the opportunity to go from worst to first in a given year. Which is, in some cases, possible. However where your idea of parity falls apart is when you look at teams just below the patriots. They know you need a top tier QB to win, and so they get a QB that is okay/good and they pay them top tier money to keep them from going to another team. This completely NEGATES parity. It forces teams to OVERSPEND, which is why IMO Every QB making more money then brady is being OVERPAID. Brady is not underpaid, he is paid the perfect amount, He is the benchmark for Quarterbacks.

chasa said:

It's not about how much Brady was underpaid, .

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Yes, it is.

BobDigital said:

For Brady this is 2005 on
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/tom-brady/cash-earnings/
(Brady got a minor extension and 2002 but I choose to ignore it as it would be unfair I thought and skew the numbers too much in his favor)

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And I think it's unfair to ignore a new contract signed by a guy who was just named the Superbowl MVP.

BobDigital said:

Rodgers is an interesting example to mention. I looked into him but did not want to touch that situation. I think he was basically extended on his first big contract after 1 year starting. So the first big contract was not really the same as the others.

Manning/Brees/Brady all had 4-6 years starting in the league before they were signed to long term deals.

Rodgers was drafted in in 2005 and really only played in 2008 then was signed to his first extended contract in 2009 (after going 6-10 in 2008 in a year that was okay but not amazing)

I think if he had a few more years starting and more of a chance to show consistency and hone his game before stepping to the table he would have gotten a much better deal.

I think his 2013 contract is more of an indicator of the kind of money he should have been getting which is much more in line with what Manning has got it appears.

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Actually, he was extended partway through his first season as a starter, but I get what you're saying. And this era of QBs will make more with the salary cap growing from $80M in 2004 to over $140M. Heck, guys like Jay Cutler and Tony Romo are getting $18M a year so probably not a fair comparison.

I guess I'd like to see a team win with one of these monstrous contracts in place. Rodgers and Flacco both won while being paid less. Even Manning's solo title came when his salary cap hit was at $8.5M. Until that time, I think if they're paid around roughly 15% of a team's salary cap figure, it's doubtful they'll be able to have enough talent to do it, and they would be overpaid in my mind.

luckily tom found a sugar momma.