How Have We Improved

mgteich said:

BOTTOM LINE

We're two weeks into free agency and we have only one real concern, I expect a trade for a corner. We shouldn't complain when it costs a first or second rounder and six million a year.

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I agree with most of your analysis, but I'm not really sure that these 2 things go together.

In other words, if we're actually going to part with a 1st or 2nd rounder (extremely doubtful in my opinion), then they surely aren't going to "just" cost 6m dollars a year.

Either we part with a mid round pick for a cheap rookie contract with upside or mid-level veteran, or we go all in (again...extremely doubtful IMO) and give up a 1st or 2nd rounder who's going to bring a 10m dollar pact with them. You can understand why I'm apprehensive of the latter occurring.

mgteich said:

We're two weeks into free agency and we have only one real concern, I expect a trade for a corner. We shouldn't complain when it costs a first or second rounder and six million a year.

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The Pats can get a better corner than Browner, who they already HAD at 4.5 mil without giving up anything, and you think a 1st round pick will fetch a 6 million a year player? Who is this unicorn? The Pats will pay MORE, PLUS a 1st round pick? I think any rational fan SHOULD complain and loudly.

More likely is the use of a high pick (1st or 2nd) to draft a CB. Cost effective and gives the Patriots 4 years with the player, to develop.

Joker said:

More likely is the use of a high pick (1st or 2nd) to draft a CB. Cost effective and gives the Patriots 4 years with the player, to develop.

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I think you've nailed this one, Joker, which also may be the reason why we saw 2-3 veteran CBs signed last week for depth/competition/experience.

mgteich said:

OFFENSE
I think that it will be better.

We should be better at WR with the additions and Amendola for a full season, and perhaps even Dobson.

The OL will be at least as good with Stork and Fleming having a year of experience. A vet and an early round rookie OG are likely to be added.

We don't know at running back, but we've lost Vereeniging and added Cadet and Gaffney. Gray and White have a year of experience.

We are clearly better at TE with the addition of Chandler.

DEFENSE

The DL is likely to be fine with a healthy Siliga. We'll add someone at DT to Siliga, Branch, Jones and Easley. The DE has Sheard in place of Ayers.

The LB should be better with Mayo back.

The safeties are back.

The schemes for the corners will change. As with the OL last year this might take a bit of experimentation.

BOTTOM LINE

We're two weeks into free agency and we have only one real concern, I expect a trade for a corner. We shouldn't complain when it costs a first or second rounder and six million a year.

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I would 100% support a trade for a corner with terms exactly like you said but I just don't see it happening. I hope I'm wrong.

Oh and the Patriots have an absolutely abysmal record at drafting and developing corners. Since Asante Samuel our one exception become a free safety 2 years into the league. In a draft really weak in corners but strong in lineman I would cry if we wasted a 1st on a corner to develop.

VectorPrime said:

In a draft really weak in corners but strong in lineman I would cry if we wasted a 1st on a corner to develop.

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Could easily be a second/third rounder just as well, especially if Belichick trades down to pick up more selections. Either way, we should see a defensive pick or two fairly high in the draft process.

supafly said:

I agree with most of your analysis, but I'm not really sure that these 2 things go together.

In other words, if we're actually going to part with a 1st or 2nd rounder (extremely doubtful in my opinion), then they surely aren't going to "just" cost 6m dollars a year.

Either we part with a mid round pick for a cheap rookie contract with upside or mid-level veteran, or we go all in (again...extremely doubtful IMO) and give up a 1st or 2nd rounder who's going to bring a 10m dollar pact with them. You can understand why I'm apprehensive of the latter occurring.

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I agree that the player that we trade for might cost morethan a $6M 2015 cap hit. I guess that I am hoping for a restructured contract.

I agree that we will likely draft a corner. However, I see no reason to believer that we'll get a 2015 starter in this draft.

mgteich said:

I agree that the player that we trade for might cost morethan a $6M 2015 cap hit. I guess that I am hoping for a restructured contract.

I agree that we will likely draft a corner. However, I see no reason to believer that we'll get a 2015 starter in this draft.

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I agree, although we've seen some examples of good rookie years from CBs in the likes of McCourty, L.Ryan, and Malcolm Butler recently.

We've also seen past examples of guys like Samuel and Gay who performed "good enough" in their roles to help contribute to their teams in SB winning seasons.

I can appreciate your apprehension though, and I certainly share some of it.

VectorPrime said:

Oh and the Patriots have an absolutely abysmal record at drafting and developing corners.

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They recognized that problem last year and evolved past it. Now, they just find undrafted corners and coach them up into making SB winning plays. Why waste a draft pick?

Here's how they have improved (which is, I believe, the topic of this thread):

• The players who are leaving are not the young core of the team (youngest to win SB, or close). Most of the competition has had at least one important young player leave. Hence, by comparison, the Pats have improved.
  
• There are several Pats who will be better than last year, because they are very new to this, particularly at DT, C, G, and CB.
• They scored what some are saying is a top 5 FA in Sheard, for budget consistent money.
• They signed an excellent TE that provides an opportunity for schemes in the O game plan that they didn't have last year.
• They have filled in the back end of the roster with solid players on budget consistent contracts.
• They have not lost their impulse control, or decided to provide their fans with a premature pleasure, by signing a veteran to a huge contract that limits their ability to fill in the roster with other players. Many of their competitors have made this mistake, which has the affect of improving the Pats by comparison.
• A handful of important players that were hurt last year have had surgery and will be healthy for the start of training camp, or close. If we are looking at the roster right now, evaluating how it is improved, those players have to be counted.

Dikembe is going to curse your whiny thread. Seriously though we are returning almost all our starters and our pass rush is definitely better than it was last season

Bruins29 said:

So you dont like a formula that always works. You would prefer he do it the way you think it should be done which probably wouldn't work as well.

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The formula doesn't "always work" as a matter of fact they went a decade without winning a SB for the simple reason their defense and to be more specific their secondary was not championship caliber...When the Patriots went out and signed elite talent at cb they won the Super Bowl. Is that a coincidence?

As a said before I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I think it's likely they will acquire a quality cb at some point before the trade deadline. If they don't they will revert back to the ten years prior when they didn't win a SB because they couldn't get off the field on third down and will come up short again...As I type they are not a championship caliber defense. Their cb's are simply not good enough to win a Superbowl...Hopefully that will change before the trade deadline.

VOODOOZF said:

The formula doesn't "always work" as a matter of fact they went a decade without winning a SB for the simple reason their defense and to be more specific their secondary was not championship caliber...When the Patriots went out and signed elite talent at cb they won the Super Bowl. Is that a coincidence?

As a said before I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I think it's likely they will acquire a quality cb at some point before the trade deadline. If they don't they will revert back to the ten years prior when they didn't win a SB because they couldn't get off the field on third down and will come up short again...As I type they are not a championship caliber defense. Their cb's are simply not good enough to win a Superbowl...Hopefully that will change before the trade deadline.

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Gronk's health has been the difference in several post seasons. 2014 included. I do NOT think that we would be Super Bowl champs if Gronk was injured as he has been in past years.

And with regard to our corners being so good, Brady had to perform miracles to keep the patriots in games, including the Super Bowl. Brady thought that he won the game. Then the defense failed again and the ball was on 1 yard line, with 2 or 3 plays to go.

We can credit our GREAT corner player for the success at the end. Or we can credit Carroll's poor time management and playcalling at the end.

Would we really be talking about great corner play if Carroll's last two calls were runs by Lynch? I suspect not.

VOODOOZF said:

The formula doesn't "always work" as a matter of fact they went a decade without winning a SB for the simple reason their defense and to be more specific their secondary was not championship caliber...When the Patriots went out and signed elite talent at cb they won the Super Bowl. Is that a coincidence?

As a said before I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I think it's likely they will acquire a quality cb at some point before the trade deadline. If they don't they will revert back to the ten years prior when they didn't win a SB because they couldn't get off the field on third down and will come up short again...As I type they are not a championship caliber defense. Their cb's are simply not good enough to win a Superbowl...Hopefully that will change before the trade deadline.

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I agree. That Welker drop to clinch the SB victory, was all because we didn't have championship caliber CB's.

I think both sides of the 2014 to 2015 argument have some merit. Yes, 2007 and 2011 could have finished better regardless of who was playing DB... but that can be said of any team in any game - a few plays are often enough to shift the balance.

NE will most likely be in the hunt - as it has been for many years - because the team will be comprised of a core of solid/very good players and all timers at QB and HC. If all falls into place, NE could win.

It is important to have financial restraint in the NFL : otherwise teams are doomed. But the loss of Revis will hurt. He is one of the best in the league - arguably THE best - and there just isn't an easy way to replace that kind of talent. I am glad they were able to have him last year.

I don't think it's a coincidence that they won the Super Bowl this season after improving their defensive backfield, but keeping it together was not a possibility - because after the Jets tampered with Revis he was going to New Jersey and nothing the Patriots could have done - other than picking up the 20 million dollar option, which would have handcuffed them this offseason - would have prevented that.

They could have bet everything on winning it all again this coming year but chose to continue using the approach they have used the past fifteen years instead, and given the success they have had with it that's completely understandable and the right choice imo. They can't replace Revis because he is irreplaceable, but that doesn't mean they can't be a better team or have a better defense overall when all is said and done.

For that to happen they will need their young players to really step up and have really good seasons, and for their additions like Sheard and Branch to have strong seasons. (Technically Branch is not an addition but this will be his first full season and they need him to play well). More than anything else they need the young DBs, Ryan, Butler, Harmon, and Dennard to develop into both good players and a really good unit. In addition to this we can reasonably expect them to add defensive talent in the draft and big seasons from guys like Hightower, Collins, and Jones.

So while hoping young players and additions is what the improvement is based upon there's good reason to believe the players and coaches will be able to get that done. Despite losing Revis I would actually be surprised if their defense doesn't rate higher than last seasons when the season is over.

VOODOOZF said:

The formula doesn't "always work" as a matter of fact they went a decade without winning a SB for the simple reason their defense and to be more specific their secondary was not championship caliber...When the Patriots went out and signed elite talent at cb they won the Super Bowl. Is that a coincidence?
.

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A couple of posters have already addressed your completely myopic view of this above. Its not worth getting into it any more because you are going to use "they diddnt win the SB" argument to help support your claim which is your case is a terrible argument as stated.

You are just making yourself look ridiculous at this point.

Brady is having a relaxing off season...that's how

At worse you think we might go 10-6. In the last 10 years we have had 10 winning seasons. We averaged 12.2 wins a season. Our worse seasons we have gone 10-6 twice.

In the same time frame, the Bills had 1 winning season and that was 9-7. They avg 6.3 wins a season.

In the same time frame, the Dolphins had 2 winning seasons. 11-5 and 9-7. They avg 7 wins a season.

In the same time frame, the Jets had 3 winning seasons, 11-5, 9-7 twice. They avg 7.5 wins a season.

Basically what that means, the teams in our division have to be at their very best to beat us at our very worst. Can that happen sure but the odds are against it. Remember we went 12-4 without Revis, Browner and Wilfork the year before.

Have we improved this off season. Hmm, don't know. The off season has still a long way to go. If this was a game, you would be saying the team that has the lead in the first quarter has won the game.

Brady is getting older, what have we done to give him another championship. Hmm seems like the same thing that was said last year. Wonder how that turned out.

I understand the concern. All the other kids are getting the shiny new expensive toys I wanted and stealing the ones I have. All I get is a sweater and some socks. But deep in my heart, I know I have plenty to eat, a warm place to sleep and parents who love me. Even though they have the shiny new toys, I've been to their house and I wouldn't want to live there.

jmt57 said:

I posted this comment in the other "I don't care, I can't stand it!" thread (Is this the worst FA period for the Pats in the last 10 years?), and received not one single response.

Perhaps I'll get a taker in this thread.



For those that believe the Patriots have not done a good job in the personnel department thus far in free agency, let me ask this:

Keeping within the harsh realities of the NFL's salary cap, what do you propose that the team should have done differently thus far?

If for example you suggest that the Patriots should have re-signed Revis, then use the contract he signed and keep your version of the 2015 Patriots cap-compliant.

At that point we can compare any of our versions of what the team should have been with the current one, and debate which roster is better.

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Except at cornerback, the Patriots are basically intact or making room for younger players going into 2015. Connolly and Wilfork are great Patriots but reached that critical moment when staying another year would take snaps from younger guys who need to develop.

The Patriots made a couple of moves in free agency to fill spots that keep the status quo, notably Chandler, Sheard, Cadet and Gibson. Chandler offers the chance to add an element to the offense, and Gibson might prove to be an upgrade. The three cornerbacks they signed are depth/special teams guys.

Your question about what they might have done differently leads me to think about picking up one proven veteran corner in free agency, and keeping Vereen. Vereen, to me, was a trusted and reliable target out of the backfield as witnessed by his 11 Super Bowl receptions. His compensation is not outside the boundaries of "value" for the production and flexibility provided.

On Revis, I am pleased they let him walk at that kind of money. Others continue to disagree, but it's just not worth having one guy absorb all the money for a position group, or force the team to become weak in another area. The Patriots have a solid safety situation.

The major needs in the draft are one impact corner, and one interior OL who contributes like Stork did in 2014. Otherwise, the Patriots are good shape.