PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

A ring for the thumb: Can Brady win Five Superbowls?


THE HUB FOR PATRIOTS FANS SINCE 2000

MORE PINNED POSTS:
Avatar
Replies:
312
Very sad news: RIP Joker
Avatar
Replies:
316
OT: Bad news - "it" is back...
Avatar
Replies:
234
2023/2024 Patriots Roster Transaction Thread
Avatar
Replies:
49
Asking for your support
 

Do you Believe that Brady will win 5 Superbowls before his career is over?

  • Yes, and he will do it this upcoming season, completing two back-to-back championships as well.

    Votes: 43 55.8%
  • Yes, but I am doubtful it will happen this upcoming season.

    Votes: 30 39.0%
  • No, it's just too hard for Brady and the Pats to win that many Superbowls with current NFL parity.

    Votes: 4 5.2%
  • No, this is crazy talk!

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    77
Status
Not open for further replies.
Oh come on. that game was incredible and one of the best, if the not the best ever... but let's not act like we controlled the entire game. yes, we played well for more MINUTES than they did. but that's not the same thing. I was just re-watching it on nfl network, as it was voted the greatest game of all time. We punted, down 10, with like 13 mins in the fourth quarter. That is far from domination. At that point, we basically needed a quick stop, a score, a stop, and a quick score. plus stopping their last effort after that. We did not dominate that game. We played against a hell of a seattle team. we were a better team, but it took every last effort

I agree completely with this.
 
The game was incredible yes...but equal? No way

When I say we dominated it means we played well for like 45 out of the 60 minute game

If not for yhe defense in characteristically falling asleep at the d end of the first half they lose points

If not for Brady throwing a dumb pick we have more points

If not for a miraculous catch they never get into our side of the field at the end of the game

If not for some well timed bombs that their guy came down with even with our guy in perfect position, they barely move the ball

The score was close, the game was great, it did come down to the wire bc it's football...but you take a select 2-3 plays away from either team and we own it outright...we dominated
 
Last year was the most comfortable I've seen Brady in the pocket since his knee injury. He's still got the arm and he's smarter than ever.

Brady will do his part along with our offense.

It's up to the defense to do theirs. If they can, there's no reason why we can't win at least one more with him.
 
Playing well for more minutes does not equal dominating the game. If you are down 10 and punt the ball in the 4th quarter, you didn't dominate the game. Please tell me that at the time that Blount got stuffed on that 3rd and 1 and we had to punt back to them that you were saying, "Man, we're dominating right now!"

We played well, but we did not dominate
 
The game was incredible yes...but equal? No way

When I say we dominated it means we played well for like 45 out of the 60 minute game

If not for yhe defense in characteristically falling asleep at the d end of the first half they lose points

If not for Brady throwing a dumb pick we have more points

If not for a miraculous catch they never get into our side of the field at the end of the game

If not for some well timed bombs that their guy came down with even with our guy in perfect position, they barely move the ball

The score was close, the game was great, it did come down to the wire bc it's football...but you take a select 2-3 plays away from either team and we own it outright...we dominated

I'm sorry, but that's not gonna fly.

You can't just say "Yeah the Pats dominated the game. Except for that time the D falling asleep, and those two interceptions our quarterback threw, and all deep bombs they completed on us... But other than that yeah we dominated!" No, those are all mistakes the Patriots made as a team. The results of those mistakes are what contributed to the Patriots being down 10 at the start of the 4th. That's not dominating football. To dominate something is to have complete control over it. You can't say the Patriots had complete control over the Seahawks when they were losing 24-14 going into the 4th. I don't see why it's so hard to grasp that we won a very close, competitive game.
 
You say clearly, yet you present absolutely clear case at all. And "everyone who watched the game"... This is just utterly ridiculous. You want me to believe that you somehow know everybody's point of view. All the millions of people that watched the Super Bowl, and you know what every one of them thinks. Your posts in this thread have been embarrassingly foolish. You're accusing me of using minimalist logic, yet appears I'm the only one using any logic at all in this conversation.


Why bother trying to use a statistical case when you have already made clear that the score is the only stat that you are looking at? And while I would agree that the score is the only thing that matters when all is said and done the claim that it is always an accurate reflection of what is going on during the game is total crap, and anyone who watches sports knows that. And your claim that the first quarter was a draw when the Patriots dominated them on both sides of the ball shows just how warped your view of that game is. And the exact same thing can be said of the NFC Championship game, where the Packers beat the Seahawks up and down the field all day long but failed to put them away and lost because of it. Seattle won but no one who watched that game would claim they outplayed Green Bay. In the end the score is all that matters but claiming that it is the only indicator of how the game was played is ridiculously simplistic. Had the Seahawks won the Super Bowl they would have deserved it but the idea that the Patriots were lucky is crap, they were the better team and showed that over the course of the game. And if the shoe were on the other foot and Brady didn't get his first completed pass until there were five minutes left in the half while the Seahawks moved up and down the fieldagainst them any Patriot fan who tried to claim the first half was a draw would have been labeled a blind homer. It was a great Super Bowl but the better team won the game, and they outplayed the Seahawks for three of the four quarters.
 
Awfully tough to repeat. That's the way it's set up with the Cap and FA. Look at all the guys we lost to FA, starting with Browner and Revis and Vereen and big Vince.

But, if anybody can get the most out of what he has, it's BB. And Brady would "only" be trying to match something that's already been done by John Elway (though in a different era) by going back-to-back at the ages of 37 and 38. And, Brady's gone back to back before.

So, impossible? No way.

A long shot? Yeah, sure, but if any team is going to do it, it's the BB/TB Pats.

I'll worry about the 2016 season, when TB will be 39, when the time comes. Too many variables even to think about that one.
 
Awfully tough to repeat. That's the way it's set up with the Cap and FA. Look at all the guys we lost to FA, starting with Browner and Revis and Vereen and big Vince.

But, if anybody can get the most out of what he has, it's BB. And Brady would "only" be trying to match something that's already been done by John Elway (though in a different era) by going back-to-back at the ages of 37 and 38. And, Brady's gone back to back before.

So, impossible? No way.

A long shot? Yeah, sure, but if any team is going to do it, it's the BB/TB Pats.

I'll worry about the 2016 season, when TB will be 39, when the time comes. Too many variables even to think about that one.


I agree however one thing working in their favor is the state of the AFC. Most of the teams taking the big plunge in free agency were the wannabes, the Dolphins, The Jets, the Bills etc... Whereas the play off teams were pretty quiet. The Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, Broncos, and Bengals either lost some talent in free agency or maintained status quo, the only one that really waded in was the scumbag Colts, who inexplicably went old and offense when they really needed to upgrade their defense. They have been dominated by the Patriots repeatedly, especially on the ground and did nothing to prevent that from happening again, so it's difficult to see how they can get by the Patriots in 2015 when they have done little to nothing to address that area. I would expect Houston, the Bills and possibly the Chiefs to be better in 2015 but really don't see anyone the Patriots can't beat heading into next season. Right now a return to the AFC Championship seems likely imo.
 
I agree however one thing working in their favor is the state of the AFC. Most of the teams taking the big plunge in free agency were the wannabes, the Dolphins, The Jets, the Bills etc... Whereas the play off teams were pretty quiet. The Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, Broncos, and Bengals either lost some talent in free agency or maintained status quo, the only one that really waded in was the scumbag Colts, who inexplicably went old and offense when they really needed to upgrade their defense. They have been dominated by the Patriots repeatedly, especially on the ground and did nothing to prevent that from happening again, so it's difficult to see how they can get by the Patriots in 2015 when they have done little to nothing to address that area. I would expect Houston, the Bills and possibly the Chiefs to be better in 2015 but really don't see anyone the Patriots can't beat heading into next season. Right now a return to the AFC Championship seems likely imo.

I really hope you're right.
 
Why bother trying to use a statistical case when you have already made clear that the score is the only stat that you are looking at?
If you think I'm wrong, then actually demonstrate why I'm wrong. All you've done is made unintelligent claims such as:

This post is so stupid that my original response was all that was needed.

You either didn't the game or you were too drunk to know what actually happened .

I know from talking to many people about the game that the vast majority of people who watched the game felt the same.

The Patriots were clearly outplaying the Seahawks throughout the first half and everyone who actually watched the game knows that.

I've simply asked where the actual domination is and you've failed to point it out. As I've asked multiple times, how can the Pats have dominated if they were down by 10 points going into the 4th quarter? You have not made a single credible argument explain this.

And while I would agree that the score is the only thing that matters when all is said and done the claim that it is always an accurate reflection of what is going on during the game is total crap,
This is what I'm talking about. The above is your claim and here is your reasoning to support your claim:

and anyone who watches sports knows that.

This reasoning is not logical. It proves absolutely nothing in the slightest. Frankly, it's crap. This has been your reasoning the entire time.

And your claim that the first quarter was a draw when the Patriots dominated them on both sides of the ball shows just how warped your view of that game is. And the exact same thing can be said of the NFC Championship game, where the Packers beat the Seahawks up and down the field all day long but failed to put them away and lost because of it. Seattle won but no one who watched that game would claim they outplayed Green Bay. In the end the score is all that matters but claiming that it is the only indicator of how the game was played is ridiculously simplistic.
And this where you really prove you're not comprehending what I'm saying. For starters, your NFC Championship exactly proves my point.

1st Quarter: Packers outscore Seahawks 13-0.
2nd Quarter: Packers outscore Seahawks 3-0.
3rd Quarter: Seahawks outscore Packers 7-0.
4th Quarter: Seahawks outscore Packers 15-6.
OT: Seahawks outscore Packers 6-0.

Looking at the score, it indicates the Packers outplayed the Seahawks in the first half and the Seahawks made a comeback in the second half and overtime to win it. Funny enough, that's what happened. You also fail to take into account that I've been considering turnovers very heavily literally this entire discussion. In fact, I talked extensively about that turnover at the end of the first half and funny enough it appears that you ignored it for whatever reason. But it's alright, I'll post it again just for you:

You initially brought up the first quarter so it'd be nice if you stayed on subject. In the first quarter, the Patriots earned 75 yards, and the result of all those yards was no points and an interception. That is called "bend but don't break," which is a defensive concept that our own coach Bill Belichcick has touted for years. That drive by the Patriots reminds me of the first drive (if I'm recalling correctly) that the Colts had in the AFC Championship game in 2003. Manning drove the Colts down the field like Brady did, and he threw an interception (to Rodney Harrison) just like Brady did. What the Patriots displayed their, just like the Seahawks did, was text book bend but don't break defense. That was the biggest drive of the quarter and the Seahawks won that battle.

If Tom Brady doesn't throw that interception, then the Pats would have most likely scored a touchdown or a field goal, which means they would've won that quarter. But for some reason you just keep on throwing that interception.

Had the Seahawks won the Super Bowl they would have deserved it but the idea that the Patriots were lucky is crap, they were the better team and showed that over the course of the game.
And this is where you prove you REALLY don't comprehend what I'm saying. I have never once said or inferred that the Patriots were not the better or that they were lucky to win it. In fact let's take a look at what I've been saying this whole time:

So no, the Patriots didn't dominate. None of them did. It was a close, competitive game. In fact, Seattle had the upper hand going into the 4th quarter. The reason why they won is because they had an amazing 4th quarter.

Oh look, another one you conveniently ignored:

Being down 24-14 at the start of fourth quarter is not a sign of dominate play. The only time the Patriots were dominating was in the fourth quarter. Their dominant play in the fourth quarter is what won them the game. Not their play in the first three quarters. Their play in the first three quarters resulted in a 24-14 score. As I've been saying literally this entire time. It was a close, competitive game that the Patriots ended up winning. No team can say they dominated the other. A proper example of domination would be the game before the Super Bowl. A 45-7 blowout. That's domination, a 28-24 win that literally came down to the one yard line is not domination. It's dramatic. I don't know about you, but when the Patriots are dominating I'm not standing on the edge of my seat. I'm laughing my ass off (Like during the Colts game).

And if the shoe were on the other foot and Brady didn't get his first completed pass until there were five minutes left in the half

The objective to football isn't to complete the most passes, but to win. And what determines the winner? The scoreboard.

while the Seahawks moved up and down the fieldagainst them any Patriot fan who tried to claim the first half was a draw would have been labeled a blind homer.
You forgot the interception part.
It was a great Super Bowl but the better team won the game,
No denying that.

and they outplayed the Seahawks for three of the four quarters.
oh boy
 
Yes, but its gonna be much harder than #4. If we could have kept Revis and Browner + adding new talent this offseason the odds would have been great next year. Now we are in a pickle and its gonna be bigger up hill climb.

Maybe.

At the same time, the 2007 and 2011 Pats D actually held the opponent to a reasonable amount of points. The vaunted 2014 D let Seattle scream up and down the field a few times. If the Seattle drive in the last 30 seconds of the second quarter is stopped/slowed, there would be no Malcolm Butler heroics.

and, if TB manages to score more than the teens in 2007 and 2014...

Anyways, I don't think the loss of Revis/Browner will necessary determine everything or make the Pats somehow crippled.

IMO/stranger on the internet.
 
Offense was the biggest reason we won last year. The offense has improved so far in the offseason, and will likely get better after the draft. Defense took a step back but it should be good enough considering that the offense will put up 30+ PPG.

Yes, he can win a 5th SB. It can very well happen in 2015.
 
And for the record, right or wrong, I still would much rather play SEA than have faced GB. I will always believe that things went our way when the Seattle player recovered that onside kick.

Again, there are many who will disagree, but you'll never convince me otherwise. I liked the matchup vs. the Seahawks much better. Luckily, we never have to know :)

I agree with you and said this before the Super Bowl as well. Although Rodgers was gimpy in the NFCCG, I still think he posed more problems for us than a healthy Wilson. I saw last year's Packers as a mirror image of the Patriots only slightly better in almost every area. Better passing game, better offensive line, better pass rush, etc. Although we almost pulled one out at Lambeau, the Packers held the ball almost twice as long and outgained us by over 150 yards. They were 10-17 on third down, and their depth at WR significantly lessened our advantage with Revis.

I liked the Seahawks matchup better for several reasons. First, as good as the Seahawks are in the secondary, their corners are lanky and not that physical, and they don't play man-to-man. It's almost impossible to stop the Patriots when playing a zone where they know your scheme. They also struggled against short passes, their one area of weakness.

Second, their offense was really all about the running game, whether with Wilson or Lynch, they were much more one-dimensional than the boxscores often indicated, with the passing game only working after teams were forced into a reluctant contain defense. Belichick can devise gameplans that limit that style, and the team had the discipline to stick with it. Had it not been for an in-game coaching gaffe in keeping undersized corners on Chris Matthews for so long, I think Seattle would have struggled to break 17 points. Clearly the Seahawks found an answer to their prayers in their 3rd/4th receiver, because before that and after Browner went on Matthews, their offense was stagnant.

Third, Seattle was very banged up in their secondary. The Super Bowl does often come down to the healthier team, and without question the Patriots were the healthier team. The Packers had some injuries as well, but I don't think overall the situation was as bad as Seattle's.
 
I agree with you and said this before the Super Bowl as well. Although Rodgers was gimpy in the NFCCG, I still think he posed more problems for us than a healthy Wilson. I saw last year's Packers as a mirror image of the Patriots only slightly better in almost every area. Better passing game, better offensive line, better pass rush, etc. Although we almost pulled one out at Lambeau, the Packers held the ball almost twice as long and outgained us by over 150 yards. They were 10-17 on third down, and their depth at WR significantly lessened our advantage with Revis.

I liked the Seahawks matchup better for several reasons. First, as good as the Seahawks are in the secondary, their corners are lanky and not that physical, and they don't play man-to-man. It's almost impossible to stop the Patriots when playing a zone where they know your scheme. They also struggled against short passes, their one area of weakness.

Second, their offense was really all about the running game, whether with Wilson or Lynch, they were much more one-dimensional than the boxscores often indicated, with the passing game only working after teams were forced into a reluctant contain defense. Belichick can devise gameplans that limit that style, and the team had the discipline to stick with it. Had it not been for an in-game coaching gaffe in keeping undersized corners on Chris Matthews for so long, I think Seattle would have struggled to break 17 points. Clearly the Seahawks found an answer to their prayers in their 3rd/4th receiver, because before that and after Browner went on Matthews, their offense was stagnant.

Third, Seattle was very banged up in their secondary. The Super Bowl does often come down to the healthier team, and without question the Patriots were the healthier team. The Packers had some injuries as well, but I don't think overall the situation was as bad as Seattle's.

I feel like if we make it to the Super Bowl, we'll likely go up against the Packers. I don't know why, but my gut tells me that they are the best contender in the game right now

Have a really strong feeling that it may come down to us vs. the Packers.... what are your predictions?
 
Last edited:
I just don't see the Packers making it back to the Super Bowl under their current regime. It seems every year they are favored to go deep but some stupid stuff happens on their part and they lose. Chalk it up to bad coaching or Rodgers being average in the playoffs.
 
You say clearly, yet you present absolutely clear case at all. And "everyone who watched the game"... This is just utterly ridiculous. You want me to believe that you somehow know everybody's point of view. All the millions of people that watched the Super Bowl, and you know what every one of them thinks. Your posts in this thread have been embarrassingly foolish. You're accusing me of using minimalist logic, yet appears I'm the only one using any logic at all in this conversation.

The only thing you are using is the score so it makes no sense at all to try and argue the point. The score is the only thing that matters when all is said and done but if someone believe it is the sole reflection of the course of play then there is nothing that can rebut that. The Patriots clearly controlled the first half right up until the last few minutes but you reject that. They also controlled the fourth quarter with the exception of a freak catch, but you reject that as well. So the bottom line is that I and many others believe the Patriots outplayed the Seahawks in three of four quarters and the NFL.Com article about it being the greatest game ever said exactly that, but you believe the score is the only reflection of how the game played out, and nothing will change either point of view.

That said I'm done with the debate, believe what you want, it makes no sense to further hijack this thread with it.
 
Last edited:
I feel like if we make it to the Super Bowl, we'll likely go up against the Packers. I don't know why, but my gut tells me that they are the best contender in the game right now

Have a really strong feeling that it may come down to us vs. the Packers.... what are your predictions?

Do you mean in the 2015-16 season? Probably too far to project ahead, but if we are going by last year's squads, I think the Packers have a slightly better team right now, and the loss of Revis gives them even more of a gap. Rodgers is still in the prime of his career and the Packers are pretty stacked overall. Patriots have some question marks. With the Patriots, it's always the leadership from veterans like Brady and coaching from Belichick that can't necessarily be measured but puts them in the running against any team.
 
Maybe, maybe not........ but I'm going to just try and enjoy the journey. With all the different gates, lucky catches, etc of the past decade this last championship let's me put the angst in perspective and now I just want to relax and enjoy it.
 
Maybe, maybe not........ but I'm going to just try and enjoy the journey. With all the different gates, lucky catches, etc of the past decade this last championship let's me put the angst in perspective and now I just want to relax and enjoy it.

Yup! It does feel good to be on winning end of one and especially way we won it. I can never get tired of seein SB again, great ending!
 
The only thing you are using is the score so it makes no sense at all to try and argue the point. The score is the only thing that matters when all is said and done but if someone believe it is the sole reflection of the course of play then there is nothing that can rebut that.
You still haven't comprehended the whole aspect of my argument dealing with turnovers and bend but don't break defense. Yikes.
The Patriots clearly controlled the first half right up until the last few minutes but you reject that.
I've given actual reasoning. You have provided absolutely nothing to help your case. At all.
They also controlled the fourth quarter with the exception of a freak catch, but you reject that as well.
Yikes. Yikes. Yikes.

The reason why they won is because they had an amazing 4th quarter.

The only time the Patriots were dominating was in the fourth quarter. Their dominant play in the fourth quarter is what won them the game.

Look, you're wrong. Again.

So the bottom line is that I and many others believe the Patriots outplayed the Seahawks in three of four quarters and the NFL.Com article about it being the greatest game ever said exactly that, but you believe the score is the only reflection of how the game played out, and nothing will change either point of view.

"I and many others" isn't gonna fly. If I recall correctly, I'm pretty sure plenty "many others" were convinced the Pats intentionally deflate their footballs to gain a competitive advantage.

That said I'm done with the debate, believe what you want, it makes no sense to further hijack this thread with it.
Alrighty
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/16: News and Notes
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/15: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-14, Mock Draft 3.0, Gilmore, Law Rally For Bill 
Potential Patriot: Boston Globe’s Price Talks to Georgia WR McConkey
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/12: News and Notes
Not a First Round Pick? Hoge Doubles Down on Maye
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/11: News and Notes
Back
Top