When it comes to pre-draft evaluation, Patriots' scouting formula different than most

Danger Zone · Apr 3, 2015

Jercules said:
It bears mentioning the NE system would be an utter failure if you didn't have the GOAT sitting at the top.

Philly makes a good case study today. Chip Kelly has similarly dictatorial powers; we'll see if he can get that team winning some playoff games (or if what LeSean McCoy intimated is true: Chip can coach, but he's not so sharp on the personnel side of things).

Yes, yes.

When you want to diminish something about Belichick as a coach or a GM you only have to bleat out Belichick would only be an average coach if he didn't have Brady.

Heard it all a thousand times.

It's just as inane as the opposite side of that particular coin: Brady would only be an average quarterback if he didnt have Belichick for a coach.

So question, why with a franchise quarterback in Drew Bledsoe did Belichick keep FOUR quarterbacks on the roster in week 1? Why bother giving this nobody Brady a coveted roster spot?

Why did we draft a quarterback in the 2nd round last year? Why did we draft Mallet in the third?

Because Belichick always wants a safety net. Even when you have a franchise quarterback, he always wants to be developing the next franchise quarterback right behind him. When that backup doesn't work out or gets too expensive to stay a backup, you move on to the next most likely candidate. Ideally, you get to trade your backup for a break even return on investment.

Seems to me that Belichick's system has everything to do with having drafted Brady, with having kept Brady and with having Brady.

Oswlek · Apr 3, 2015

Danger Zone said:
Yes, yes.

When you want to diminish something about Belichick as a coach or a GM you only have to bleat out Belichick would only be an average coach if he didn't have Brady.

Heard it all a thousand times.

It's just as inane as the opposite side of that particular coin: Brady would only be an average quarterback if he didnt have Belichick for a coach.

So question, why with a franchise quarterback in Drew Bledsoe did Belichick have FOUR quarterbacks on the roster in week 1? Why bother giving this nobody Brady a coveted roster spot?

Why did we draft a quarterback in the 2nd round last year? Why did we draft Mallet in the third?

Because Belichick always wants a safety net. Even when you have a franchise quarterback, he always wants to be developing the next franchise quarterback right behind him. When that backup doesn't work out or gets too expensive to be a backup, you move on to the next most likely candidate. Ideally, you get to trade your backup for a break even return on investment.

Seems to me that Belichick's system has everything to do with having drafted Brady, with keeping Brady and with having Brady as a quarterback.

My favorite corollary of that argument is when someone responds to the mention of going 11-5 in 2008 with something to the effect of

"Yeah, but that team went 16-0 the year before! They could have carried any quarterback!"

Of course, you imbecile! That's the damn point! Who do you think built that f***ing roster?!

glm · Apr 3, 2015

convertedpatsfan said:
Obviously having a great QB helps win games, but this franchise has won plenty of games without Tom playing at the top of his game.

The obvious one is 2008 when Matt Cassel led the team to 11 wins. Say what you want about the schedule, it's tough to win 11 games in the NFL.

But people also forget or overlook that last stretch of 2001 because we won the Super Bowl. Brady wasn't the GOAT back then. He had a hot stretch when he first got the starting job, but down the stretch, he really struggled. The team won their last 6 games, but in their last 5, Brady averaged 62% completion, 195 yards per game, and had 2 TDs vs. 5 INTs and had a 72.6 RAT. In the play-offs against the Raiders, Brady threw for a lot of yards but didn't have a TD and threw an INT. Against the Steelers, he only threw 18 passes for 115 yards, 0 TDs. And against the Rams, he threw his only TD of the post-season while completing 59% of his passes for only 145 yards. The defense and special teams made plays, and the running game helped carry the offense to that first Super Bowl win.

In the 2006 and 2007 play-offs, he struggled against the Chargers defense, throwing 2 TDs vs. 3 INTs in each game, but the team managed to win both. Ditto 2011, when one of the worst defenses in league history helped the team beat the Ravens in the AFCCG while Brady didn't throw a TD and 2 INTs.

Tom's the GOAT, but this team is able to win games even when he's not at his greatest.

To brady's credit, in the 2001 divisional against Oakland he did have a rushing td, threw the ball 50 times in a blizzard and put Adam vinateiri in position to send the game into overtime and win it while in overtime. The difficulty for winning a game like that in your first year starting and also in your first playoff game ever is extremely difficult. That's if I'm remembering all of this correctly of course

convertedpatsfan · Apr 3, 2015

glm said:
To brady's credit, in the 2001 divisional against Oakland he did have a rushing td, threw the ball 50 times in a blizzard and put Adam vinateiri in position to send the game into overtime and win it while in overtime. The difficulty for winning a game like that in your first year starting and also in your first playoff game ever is extremely difficult. That's if I'm remembering all of this correctly of course

Agreed. I'm just saying the team has won in the regular season and play-offs without Brady at his highest level before, and not fair to the guys like Tedy, AV, Ty Law, and countless other guys who made huge plays over the years.

glm · Apr 3, 2015

convertedpatsfan said:
Agreed. I'm just saying the team has won in the regular season and play-offs without Brady at his highest level before, and not fair to the guys like Tedy, AV, Ty Law, and countless other guys who made huge plays over the years.

Oh I agree with your post I was just nitpicking

Ice_Ice_Brady · Apr 3, 2015

I cannot believe that these teams are giving kids out of college more money than many CEOs, and the best they can do for an evaluation is "Round 3". Really? That's the most comprehensive and sophisticated their grading process can achieve? No wonder the Patriots are lapping half the league in their player development and drafting.

Gumby · Apr 3, 2015

betterthanthealternative said:
This article and others like it over the years have made it clear that the Pats don't slot players by round. If a player is available when they pick, and he is the best fit for their system and their needs, they pick him, regardless of how others have slotted him by round. They don't care about "round slotting."

Sorry, but I don't buy that entirely. BB has traded down 2-5spaces too many times. The Patriots may not care about where someone is 'slotted', but 20 -31 otherwise Teams care. So if you are going to make sure doesn't get YOUR guy, or want to get some more late rd picks before taking YOUR GUY, you have to at least make a hand wave at rd slotting along with your opposition research,

Oswlek · Apr 3, 2015

Gumby said:
Sorry, but I don't buy that entirely. BB has traded down 2-5spaces too many times. The Patriots may not care about where someone is 'slotted', but 20 -31 otherwise Teams care. So if you are going to make sure doesn't get YOUR guy, or want to get some more late rd picks before taking YOUR GUY, you have to at least make a hand wave at rd slotting along with your opposition research,

Agreed, though the slight trade back could mean something entirely different; that they had several "guys" at that moment and were comfortable no matter who slid down to them.

RayClay · Apr 4, 2015

Gumby said:
Sorry, but I don't buy that entirely. BB has traded down 2-5spaces too many times. The Patriots may not care about where someone is 'slotted', but 20 -31 otherwise Teams care. So if you are going to make sure doesn't get YOUR guy, or want to get some more late rd picks before taking YOUR GUY, you have to at least make a hand wave at rd slotting along with your opposition research,

Of course. They may not see him in the same round as others, but they need to be cognizant of where other teams will pick him, if they do or don't.

They like McCourty, but he wasn't considered a first round talent, apparently, so they traded down twice and still got him.

they must have had another corner later, or another player ranked similar in the first.

Jercules · Apr 4, 2015

glm said:
Of course you provide no evidence

Bill Belichick has proven himself to be a total football genius. Kraft saw that way back in 2000, and realized the best way to take advantage is to leverage it to the hilt. A dictatorship is perfect... so long as you have the perfect dictator. Belichick isn't perfect, but he's close enough.

So I suppose my original post was off the mark: "The System" doesn't necessarily need the GOAT. Someone extremely competent might do. The point is, without a Belichick-like figure, the system as constructed wouldn't work: you'd need something far more decentralized and collaborative, which is what most teams are doing (some with considerable success).

If things were different, I'm sure Kraft would run it differently. We shouldn't forget the man had some NFL success before Belichick.

lurker1965 · Apr 5, 2015

Jercules said:
It bears mentioning the NE system would be an utter failure if you didn't have the GOAT sitting at the top.

Philly makes a good case study today. Chip Kelly has similarly dictatorial powers; we'll see if he can get that team winning some playoff games (or if what LeSean McCoy intimated is true: Chip can coach, but he's not so sharp on the personnel side of things).

Matt Cassel 11-5. Your evidence.

glm · Apr 5, 2015

Jercules said:
Bill Belichick has proven himself to be a total football genius. Kraft saw that way back in 2000, and realized the best way to take advantage is to leverage it to the hilt. A dictatorship is perfect... so long as you have the perfect dictator. Belichick isn't perfect, but he's close enough.

So I suppose my original post was off the mark: "The System" doesn't necessarily need the GOAT. Someone extremely competent might do. The point is, without a Belichick-like figure, the system as constructed wouldn't work: you'd need something far more decentralized and collaborative, which is what most teams are doing (some with considerable success).

If things were different, I'm sure Kraft would run it differently. We shouldn't forget the man had some NFL success before Belichick.

I thought you were talking about Brady, but of course it wouldn't be Belichick's system without Belichick. Has anyone used Lombardi's system to the same effect that Lombradi did? How about Chuck Noll?

And honestly Belichick's "system" is ever changing, game to game. For instance look at the first two games of the playoffs this past year. Against the Ravens the offense passed the ball 51 times for 418 and ran it for only 13 times for 14 yards. The very next game against the Colts the offense passed the ball 35 times for 226 yards and ran it 40 times for 177 yards. First game they're damn near a pure passing offense and the next they're smash mouth football. Belichick's "system" depends on him identifying the opposite team's weakness and exploiting it while minimizing their strength. While he does that he does the opposite for his own team. Belichick would like to be a chameleon that can transform into whatever type of team he needs on any given Sunday.

When it comes to pre-draft evaluation, Patriots' scouting formula different than most

Danger Zone

In the Starting Line-Up

Oswlek

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

glm

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convertedpatsfan

PatsFans.com Supporter

glm

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Ice_Ice_Brady

I heard 10,000 whispering and nobody listening

Gumby

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Oswlek

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RayClay

Hall of Fame Poster

Jercules

Practice Squad Player

lurker1965

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glm

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