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Nominees for New England Patriots 2015 Hall of Fame


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Asking for your support
 

Who should be inducted into the Pats Hall of Fame in 2015?

  • Raymond Clayborn

    Votes: 20 39.2%
  • Leon Gray

    Votes: 3 5.9%
  • Chuck Fairbanks

    Votes: 6 11.8%
  • Bill Parcells

    Votes: 5 9.8%
  • Willie McGinest

    Votes: 35 68.6%
  • Lawyer Milloy

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Rodney Harrison

    Votes: 16 31.4%
  • Mike Vrabel

    Votes: 11 21.6%
  • Fred Marion

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    51
  • Poll closed .
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Looks like the Sullivans repeated their reneging act in 1978 and screwed over Stingley.

Wikipedia said:
In 1977, contract squabbles between the Sullivan family and offensive linemen John Hannah and Leon Gray led to discord within the team. The incident soured Fairbanks on Chuck Sullivan, who as the eldest son of team owner Billy Sullivan controlled the team's finances and had forced Fairbanks to renege on his proposed contracts with Hannah and Gray. Hannah, denied Fairbanks' promised contract by the ownership team, later contended that the Sullivans "took Chuck's authority away and turned him into a liar." [6] The Patriots narrowly missed making the playoffs on the last weekend of the regular season.

The following year in 1978 tragedy struck during the preseason as Stingley suffered paralysis following a violent hit by Jack Tatum at Oakland; Fairbanks had worked out a contract extension with Stingley before the game but the following Monday Chuck Sullivan reneged on the deal. Fairbanks was livid and resolved to leave the team after the season.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Fairbanks

Also, Fairbanks did not walk out on the team in 1978. Sullivan suspended him for signing a contract to become Colorado's head coach for 1979.
 
I'm starting to think you believe Clayborn should be in the Patriots Hall of Fame.

Not as much as Antwine, but close. As Nelson stated, he was a shut down corner man on man against the best. Why wouldn't he be a Hall of Famer? Of course, I like his style, hence the user name.

Anyone who played before 2001 is at a tremendous disadvantage, so I feel I need to set the record straight.
 
Clayborn should already be in, but Willie Mac is the leader of this list.

Should break their rules and let more than one person in this year.
 
Looks like the Sullivans repeated their reneging act in 1978 and screwed over Stingley.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Fairbanks

Also, Fairbanks did not walk out on the team in 1978. Sullivan suspended him for signing a contract to become Colorado's head coach for 1979.
Huh?
What do you call signing a contract with to work for someone else?
 
Your post made it sound like he left the team "on the eve of a playoff appearance", which is not true. He was intending to coach out the year (including the playoffs) and then leave. Sullivan is the one who forced him to miss the final regular season game (and I don't recall how much, if any, of prep for the playoff game).

Anyhow, given the Sullivans' behavior with Hannah & Grey & Stingley (and who knows what else), I don't blame him one bit for deciding to attempt to break his contract. That said, I will fault him for starting recruiting activities for Colorado while still the NE coach.
 
Your post made it sound like he left the team "on the eve of a playoff appearance", which is not true. He was intending to coach out the year (including the playoffs) and then leave. Sullivan is the one who forced him to miss the final regular season game (and I don't recall how much, if any, of prep for the playoff game).

Anyhow, given the Sullivans' behavior with Hannah & Grey & Stingley (and who knows what else), I don't blame him one bit for deciding to attempt to break his contract. That said, I will fault him for starting recruiting activities for Colorado while still the NE coach.
I don't see much difference in taking a different job and quitting. But hey some people want Parcells in the Hall too, so there must be a fan dynamic with forgiving coaches who quit on their teams.
We all know the Sullivans were far from great, but the coach wanted to pay X and the owner wanted to pay Y is a he said/she said that is hardly proof of anything. Perhaps we should assail Fairbanks for offering deals without approval of ownership?
 
Do you blame Chuck Sullivan for mortgaging the team and stadium to the hilt to promote
the Michael Jackson tour?
 
Your post made it sound like he left the team "on the eve of a playoff appearance", which is not true. He was intending to coach out the year (including the playoffs) and then leave. Sullivan is the one who forced him to miss the final regular season game (and I don't recall how much, if any, of prep for the playoff game).

Anyhow, given the Sullivans' behavior with Hannah & Grey & Stingley (and who knows what else), I don't blame him one bit for deciding to attempt to break his contract. That said, I will fault him for starting recruiting activities for Colorado while still the NE coach.

Was that in Hannah's book? I never heard that before. For the record, the team paid all his medical expenses the rest of his life, paid his and his children's education and hired him as Executive Director of Player Personnel.
 
I don't see much difference in taking a different job and quitting. But hey some people want Parcells in the Hall too, so there must be a fan dynamic with forgiving coaches who quit on their teams.
We all know the Sullivans were far from great, but the coach wanted to pay X and the owner wanted to pay Y is a he said/she said that is hardly proof of anything. Perhaps we should assail Fairbanks for offering deals without approval of ownership?

I believe Hannah was bargaining on the basis of sign us both, or no deal.

Wonder what BB would think of that, especially since, without Gray, Hannah was still outstanding.

That's a lot of money to tie up on 2/5ths of the line. Nothing good to say about Chuck, but i question some of the hyperbole involving that situation.
 
Not to mention Raymond Berry should be on the list before either Parcells or Fairbanks.
 
If Parcells is to be given credit for turning the franchise around, then Fairbanks should be given the same credit - times ten. Fairbanks inherited a team that had not had a winning record in six years (Parcells: four), allowed 32 ppg the prior season (Parcells:23 ppg), and was coming off a points for/against differential of -254 points, or -18 ppg (Parcells: 158. or 10 ppg).

Many point to the players that were drafted while Parcells was with the Patriots, but look at those that Fairbanks selected: John Hannah, Sam Cunningham, Darryl Stingley, Ray Hamilton, Steve Nelson, Andy Johnson, Sam Hunt, Russ Francis, Rod Shoate, Steve Grogan, Mike Haynes, Pete Brock, Tim Fox, Raymond Clayborn, Stanley Morgan, Horace Ivory, Don Hasselbeck and Mosi Tatupu.

As @Jimke mentioned, the Patriots would have won the Super Bowl following the 1976 season if not for Ben Dreith. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind about that. Fairbanks' playoff record is irrelevant to this point. For starters only four teams made the playoffs in each conference then, so comparing records to current times is apples to oranges.


The Pats dominated most of that game and it wouldn't have even been close if not for an interception late in the first half. The Raiders scored a TD in the final two minutes, a 14-point swing. The Pats led 21-10 entering the 4th quarter, but it felt as though they should have been up by a lot more.

John Smith missed a field goal with about four minutes to play that would have put the Patriots up by seven, and then Dreith handed the Raiders the game on the bogus roughing the passer game because he (allegedly) was told that stadium security could not guarantee his safety. Ken Stabler even admitted that there was no way that Hamilton should have been called for a penalty. Prior to that there were multiple non-calls against Oakland on Russ Francis (one where his nose was broken, another where he was blatantly held), and on another play Sam Cunningham ran past the first down marker for a first down, but somehow the spot was placed well short of a first.

Here's the thing: the Steelers were completely beat up, over run with injuries. Whoever won the Pats-Raiders game was going to win the AFCCG. And at that point in time, the AFC was head and shoulders better than the NFC; whatever team came out of the AFC was going to easily defeat the NFC's representative (in this case the Vikings, with an over-the-hill Fran Tarkenton at QB) for the Super Bowl.

So yes, make no mistake: if not for that egregious call by Ben Dreith, the Patriots first Super Bowl winning coach would have (and should have) been Chuck Fairbanks.


Unfortunately that did not happen, and combined with the Sullivan's tightwad ways, Fairbanks soon departed. He doesn't get into the team's hall of fame, but let's not so easily offhandedly dismiss his contribution - or the quality of that 1976 club.
 
I don' think coaches and front office people should be competing with players. Let there be a separate selection, or something.
 
Like many, I voted for Clayborn & Willie Mac. Unlike many, I also voted for Fairbanks.
I was about to post a mea culpa for that last vote and wish I had voted for Rodney or Vrabel instead,
but after reading jmt's post, I think I'll change my mind about changing my mind.
Now if Julius Adams had been one of the nominees in the poll, then my 3rd vote would surely have gone
to him instead of Fairbanks. Is he still eligible?
 
My vote is for McGinest, Clayborn, and Rodney.

I think McGinest should get in this year. The reason isn't only his production, which was great, but it was for his leadership and setting the tone which was picked up by young guys like Brady and Big Vince. I truly believe the leadership shown by McGinest, Bruschi, and few others set the tone for the entire organization which is still felt to this day. It was McGinest who was the Sheriff of the locker room back in the day. He and Bruschi stood at the doors to see when the younger guys arrived and who was hitting the film room and the weight room. He was also one of the best big play defensive players of his time.
 
As @Jimke mentioned, the Patriots would have won the Super Bowl following the 1976 season if not for Ben Dreith. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind about that...

The Pats dominated most of that game and it wouldn't have even been close if not for an interception late in the first half. The Raiders scored a TD in the final two minutes, a 14-point swing. The Pats led 21-10 entering the 4th quarter, but it felt as though they should have been up by a lot more.

John Smith missed a field goal with about four minutes to play that would have put the Patriots up by seven, and then Dreith handed the Raiders the game on the bogus roughing the passer game because he (allegedly) was told that stadium security could not guarantee his safety. Ken Stabler even admitted that there was no way that Hamilton should have been called for a penalty. Prior to that there were multiple non-calls against Oakland on Russ Francis (one where his nose was broken, another where he was blatantly held), and on another play Sam Cunningham ran past the first down marker for a first down, but somehow the spot was placed well short of a first.

Here's the thing: the Steelers were completely beat up, over run with injuries. Whoever won the Pats-Raiders game was going to win the AFCCG. And at that point in time, the AFC was head and shoulders better than the NFC; whatever team came out of the AFC was going to easily defeat the NFC's representative (in this case the Vikings, with an over-the-hill Fran Tarkenton at QB) for the Super Bowl.

So yes, make no mistake: if not for that egregious call by Ben Dreith, the Patriots first Super Bowl winning coach would have (and should have) been Chuck Fairbanks.

Unfortunately that did not happen, and combined with the Sullivan's tightwad ways, Fairbanks soon departed. He doesn't get into the team's hall of fame, but let's not so easily offhandedly dismiss his contribution - or the quality of that 1976 club.

Great recap. We woulda definitely been SB Champs.
I remember each of those plays better than most plays in our 2nd & 3rd SB wins. Francis was held from behind, the LB pulling back his arms such that the pass bounced off his chest. Incredibly BAD non-call. My problem with Cunningham is that to me it looked like HE ran OOB and the Pats had to punt.

A Sicilian co-worker was watching the game with his grandfather who spoke no English. A big guy, he jumped up and smashed his fist on the table after Dreith's call, obliterating the coffee table. His grandfather had no idea what was happening and was quite upset screaming in Italian to the family, totally befuddled at his nice American grandson's sudden outburst.

There was no replay back then for the Francis, etc. calls.
 
Like many, I voted for Clayborn & Willie Mac. Unlike many, I also voted for Fairbanks.
I was about to post a mea culpa for that last vote and wish I had voted for Rodney or Vrabel instead,
but after reading jmt's post, I think I'll change my mind about changing my mind.
Now if Julius Adams had been one of the nominees in the poll, then my 3rd vote would surely have gone
to him instead of Fairbanks. Is he still eligible?

I imagine he'll be a veterans candidate. Otherwise that window is closing fast after Clayborn.
 
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