My take on "Cap is Crap"

BobDigital said:

I think he has to his detriment sometimes given contracts to players he should not have while not playing players he should.

Click to expand...

Who could possibly disagree with this? Of course he's made mistakes. Many. But not fatal errors hamstringing the franchise.

How many other GMs have had to draft so late in every round? Year after year after year.

How many other GMs have had to deal with starter holes from SB ring players cashing out who were sought time & again by cap rich competitors?

Hard to say who the best GM is but BB is decidedly in the top echelon.

I'm sure if the "Cap was Crap", Elway wouldn't have elected to downgrade TE, S, G, and C this offseason and make no impact moves with a 39 year old QB.

Or the Cowboys losing Murray

Orthe Saints imploding their team

Or the Ravens trading Ngata and leaving a gaping hole at WR2

etc. etc.

A handful of thoughts on this topic:

1) Why do people pay any attention to Felger? He's intentionally trolling you and making money hand over fist in the process. He works the same way as any internet troll here, people get all riled up and call incessantly just to yell at him. His ratings are huge, and he barely has to do anything except repeat the same tired takes. Instead of being insightful he gets higher ratings purposefully antagonizing you. If anyone is the idiot it's you for listening to him, he's the guy who is smart enough to take advantage of you.

2) In terms of the "cap is crap" there is some validity behind that point, but not to the extent that someone like Felger takes it to. Over time your cash to cap ratio should be somewhere slightly north of 1.00. Some years you'll be way ahead of it others you'll be under it. Prorating bonuses, gtd. salaries, incentives, and whatever else all has an opportunity cost to it. You're moving the accumulation of those numbers on the cap around, but ultimately the money is still going out the door and will hit your cap eventually. That is why the 1 year look that someone like Felger consistently does is inherently disingenuous. He basically says: "look if we convert this to a bonus, we opened up 5 mil in cap space" which doesn't then account for the $5 million in non-moveable money on the future caps. There is an opportunity cost to everything, but Felger doesn't acknowledge that which is part of the reason why I think people get indignant about this whole thing.

3) The criticism that the Pats are cheap isn't fair, but the opinion that the Patriots are too conservative probably is more accurate. The Pats have paid out some pretty large contracts over the years. Taking Gronk and Brady out of the equation because they represented about as close to zero risk must signs as you'll ever see, Mankins, Mayo, McCourty, and Wilfork have all received near market value contracts, some of which could have been considered overpayment at the time. Why did these 4 guys get paid where others who probably were more talented like Talib, Revis, Seymour, and Samuel were shown the door? They were simply the safer investments, and were better fits to maintain the culture of hard work in the building. All 4 of those guys did everything the right way, and by paying them instead of the other guys provides a carrot to the other young players that to get paid here you have to put the work in. Another example of this would probably be the restructures of Vollmer and Nink in the offseason. It's not a cheap move, but it's rewarding guys who are doing things the right way. Which was probably needed after giving Mankins and Wilfork the boot in the last 8 months.

Guys like Revis, Seymour, Talib, and Samuel were all outstanding talents in the primes of their career when they left. However, there were bigger concerns with some of them like Effort, Injury, Age, Personal Issues, and punctuality.

The dividends of those guys is potentially way higher than the the other guys, but carried far more risk. The Pats went with the more sure bets. This makes sense if you consider who the parties were that were making the decision. Kraft & BB in all likelihood are not as championship hungry as other GM's and Owners. That isn't to say they don't care about winning, but it's hard to want to win a championship a much as someone who has never won when you have 4 sitting on your mantle. It's much better for the Pats to win 12 every year and have an outside shot at a title than to take big risks to try to win it all, and potentially have if lead to a missed playoff season.

4) With all that being said it's hard for me to like the way the Pats handled the 2015 offseason so far. I do think they've played it a little too conservatively. After 2015 they only have about $63 million in outstanding guarantees about 2/3 of which is tied up in Brady, Gronk, and McCourty who probably aren't going anywhere. In other words only $10 million more than what the Dolphins will have tied up in Suh. So they have a ton of cap flexibility going forward if they're so inclined.

We let go of an elite talent that allowed us to run our defense in a way that has brought us success. Despite BB's insistence on letting #1 CB's go we have looked a lot better defensively with them than without them. I would have taken my chances with McCourty gone rather than Revis going. Obviously that comes with the assumption that he would have come back with a similar offer from the Pats which nobody besides Revis really knows. It is still fair to say that we weren't as aggressive as we could have been in trying to retain him.

Even with the loss of Revis we still could have been more aggressive as well. We have real needs at 3DRB, OG, and CB and have a ton of future cap flexibility. I'm not so comfortable going into the draft with 3 needs quite that glaring. Sheard was a low risk move, but with how much the potential cap hits are over the next 2 years, I think we could have gotten someone much better if we were willing to throw a few more years and some more guarantees behind a contract for someone else.

patsfaninpa said:

You da man Miguel. Don't let idiots like Felger get ya down. He'd rather lie to gain an audience than be honest with himself. If anyone thinks the cap is crap, you should probably post elsewhere.

Felger also never mentioned that there wasn't a cap in 2010. And, somehow the league ok'd the Jets to release players prior to the start of the new league year so it wouldn't count against their 2011 cap. Yet, Goodell takes cap space from Dallas and Washington for going over an imaginary cap.

Click to expand...

It's cool the Jets told the league they have an internal cap.

That idiot thinks you can sign anyone for any amount and have no problem...if felger did ANY research he would know that's not the case

patsinthesnow said:

I'm sure if the "Cap was Crap", Elway wouldn't have elected to downgrade TE, S, G, and C this offseason and make no impact moves with a 39 year old QB.

Or the Cowboys losing Murray

Orthe Saints imploding their team

Or the Ravens trading Ngata and leaving a gaping hole at WR2

etc. etc.

Click to expand...

The Broncos surprised me, I was under the impression they were in excellent cap shape but they really weren't players this year. I would l love to know why they were so conservative this free agency?

McClusky said:

1) Why do people pay any attention to Felger? He's intentionally trolling you and making money hand over fist in the process. He works the same way as any internet troll here, people get all riled up and call incessantly just to yell at him. His ratings are huge, and he barely has to do anything except repeat the same tired takes. Instead of being insightful he gets higher ratings purposefully antagonizing you. If anyone is the idiot it's you for listening to him, he's the guy who is smart enough to take advantage of you.

Click to expand...

Yep!! Anyone who listens to Felcher for Dark Amusement, I understand that.

But anyone tuning in to Felcher, expecting anything but Idiocy?? Hoo boy.

ThatllMoveTheChains!!! said:

It's cool the Jets told the league they have an internal cap.

Click to expand...

They most certainly do, e.g.... The cornerback position has to stay a little under 200 million for the next few seasons. Extrapolating from that their internal cap is right around 2 billion.

Miguel said:

The entire "Cap is crap" concept diminishes the accomplishments of the best team of the salary cap era.

Click to expand...

No, it doesn't. They were the first team to really understand the cap, and that's always going to be a part of the legacy.

Miguel said:

If Felger did a better job of reporting on the salary cap, I would have never felt the need to start my cap pages. If I did not understand something or do something well like report on the salary cap, I may also say that it is not important. Does not make it true.

Click to expand...

If you think on it, you'll remember that I'm one of the people who's been more attentive to the cap than most around here. Felger's taken his position too far on occasion, something he's even acknowledged, and Felger's use of his position is usually to attack the Patriots when it shouldn't be, but that doesn't mean that his underlying point isn't true.

As Belichick, himself, has said, in the context of a larger cap question:

Each situation is different and cap space can be maneuvered, as we all know, in a number of different ways.

Click to expand...

http://www.patriots.com/news/2013/01/21/bill-belichick-press-conference-transcript

The reality of the cap is that, now that teams understand how it works, as long as it's increasing yearly, accounting maneuvers can be done in ways that make the threat of cap jail a very unlikely one. We've been seeing this since the last CBA. It doesn't make paying attention to the cap a bad idea or waste of time (far from it), and the new CBA addition of actual cash spending will likely make paying attention to the cap even more interesting as we move forward.

Get a flat cap, along with the spending floor, and we might well see a return to the early 2000's. Until then, accounting moves, combined with the lower initial contracts for first round rookies, will continue to make things a lot easier on GMs.

Some Comments on the Comments.

1. No one should really blame Felger for simply being a creature of his own environment. But doing what was "smart" rather than what was "correct", he has made himself into the top guy in his field in one of the biggest sports markets in the country....with a national rep.

Hating on Felger is akin to hating on the Pats. Haters hate the Pats for winning all the time, and they don't know why. Same with Felger. His haters, "hate" that he is doing so well, despite while seemingly aggravating just about everyone. They don't seem to understand that that is PRECISELY why he's so successful.

2. The post that described Felger as the ultimate troll, couldn't be more right. That is EXACTLY what he is so good at. He knows how to push our buttons, keep us interested, engaged, and participating.

3. If he has one redeeming attribute, its that Felger doesn't pretend to be anything more than a troll. He doesn't claim to be smarter, or have a better sources. In fact its like the opposite. He's simply a guy with a take, but he can control the conversation with a button. (who here who has gotten into it with someone hasn't wished he had one of those)

4. Myself, I have gone from liking him, to hating him, to eventually learning how to live with him. I have discovered this neat trick. Anytime I listen and he pisses me off, I turn the station. You'd be surprised how effective that is in eliminating Fleger fatigue and stress.

5. Actually the guy I really hate is Mazz, mostly because he DOES pretend to know what he's talking about, when he really doesn't.

6. McClusky produced a simply awesome post. I didn't agree with all of it, but it was well written and documented, with interesting POV's Thanks for the contribution.

7. I do disagree with his take on the 2015 off season. Here's why.

a. I strongly believe that outside of a complete break with reality, Revis wasn't coming back, and making a similar offer or even slightly better to the Jets wasn't going to get it done for 2 reasons. One the Jets would have simply offered more and they didn't have any limitations. Secondly Revis would RATHER be #1 in NYC, than be #4 or 5 in Boston. In the end it was as simple as that. He got his ring here for career validation, he really didn't need another being Another piece of the puzzle in NE. With the Jets he will be THE piece of the puzzle if they ever win one.

b. When the smoke clears, the Pats really didn't have much of a chance to keep him for a lot of reasons, INCLUDE the tampering that went on during February and early March.

c. Once it was clear that that Revis was a lost cause, you can't blame the Pats for the current state of the Pats CB group. There was simply no realistic replacement available in FA or in the draft. All the other FA CB's were wildly over paid and aren't going to replace Revis even if we did.

c. My ONLY possible complaint was letting Browner go. H could have given us some size at the position. Size we will have no chance to replace. There was no question he was gong to be over paid this year, but not THAT overpaid.

OTOH, Its not hard to see that Browner's liabilities without Revis on the other side might very well become more pronounced, and go well beyond the value his unique sixe brought. That was simply a talent assessment BB is much better prepared to make than we are.

d. So by a combination of Revis' desires and a weakness at the position, The Pats have a "seemingly" glaring weakness at CB going into this season. That's just the way it is. And we all know that "perceived" weaknesses and "actual" weaknesses don't always turn out to be the same thing, when the season rolls around.

e. Other "perceived areas of weakness" like OG, 3dRB, and DT might all end up being upgraded by the time the dust starts to settle come October

7.

Cap is indeed crap.Redskins are the prime example of this because for years they constantly gave out big contacts but were never in any big cap trouble.Their problem like most of the NFL was that they did not have good qb play and bad coaching.If a team does not have good qb play they have no chance,and that is what is important not the cap, but that does not mean you have to be completely stupid about it.I can only name a few teams over the years where you can trace their problems to cap issues.

Unfortunately some fans buy into that as well. Many fans wanted the Patriots to pay one CB what he wanted without even thinking about the players who would have had to be cut or not resigned.
All it would take was a little time to go on Miguels cap page to see the damage that overpaying that one player would have done to the rest of the team.

I thank Miguel for providing this information for those who really want to know what is going on. Other fans and media who do not take information to form their opinions are just either lazy or knee jerk reactionaries.

If Kraft was cheap, how did we get $12 million over the cap before the FA period started?

More McCluskey please.............

BTW, I absolutely love how Felger cites the Jets as the team to follow in terms of franchise building. It's like reading Kama Sutra tips from the 40-Year Old Virgin or learning about winning basketball games from the Washington Generals.

Yes, terrible franchises do things differently than us. That doesn't mean we should follow them. They're not leading the cutting edge; they're jumping off the stupidity cliff.

betterthanthealternative said:

Miguel,
Question: now that your brother has passed his fundraising goal for the marathon, now where would you like us to show our appreciation for your work?

Click to expand...

A long-time family friend, my youngest sister's best friend, is on the board of directors of a soup kitchen and food pantry in Malden, Massachusetts that serves over 400 low-income and homeless families per month. I am asking that if you have found my salary cap pages useful that if you are able to do so, please make a donation to the http://www.thebreadoflifeonline.org Bread of Life soup kitchen/food pantry. Their address is
Attn: Mea Quinn Mustone
Bread of Life
54 Eastern Avenue, Rear
Malden, MA 02148

Please mention Patscap.com with your donation.
Thanks so much!!!!!

McClusky said:

1) Why do people pay any attention to Felger? He's intentionally trolling you and making money hand over fist in the process. He works the same way as any internet troll here, people get all riled up and call incessantly just to yell at him. His ratings are huge, and he barely has to do anything except repeat the same tired takes. Instead of being insightful he gets higher ratings purposefully antagonizing you. If anyone is the idiot it's you for listening to him, he's the guy who is smart enough to take advantage of you.

Click to expand...

For the record I do not listen to Felger. In fact, I refuse to do so. I have been asked to call into his show and will not. Why? It is not because I am afraid of debating the salary cap with Mike Felger. I would bring a DeathStar to the conversation while he would bring a water pistol. I will not call into the show because I am an unabashed fan of the Patriots. As such, my opinion according to him is not worth that much. I started this thread because it is so tiresome to hear the "cap is crap" quote from fellow Patriots fans.

Ivan said:

Belichick has Brady because drafted him, kept 4 Qb's to keep him around, and then helped develop him into n the GOAT, it wasn't luck. And Belichick as GM has one of the toughest jobs as GM because he always drafts at the end of every round, gets one of the last shots at any released player, rarely has much wiggle room under the cap because he always has a deep, talented, and well compensated roster, and always has his players raided in free agency by teams willing n to overpay for winner stink. In addition they play a first place schedule every season and always have teams gunning for them Despite all of the structures in place to bring about parity Belichick has managed to defy them to compile one of the greatest record's of any coach, GM, and team in history, and his ability to manage the salary cap and find value everywhere is one of the big reasons for that success. Imo Belichick is not only the GOAT coach but also the best GM of the salary cap era and anyone who disagree really needs to show the GM or GM' s who had more success.

Click to expand...

And just for emphasis.

The Patriots have drafted in the worst average draft position of ANY NFL team.. 14 years in a row. Just in last five years Belichick has had to draft: 28th, 31st, 29th, 29th and 32nd.

No other team has to work with that kind of constant draft handicap over such an extended period of time. It is strongly my opinion that (most) pundits and fans do not give enough credit of how much Belichick has his hands tied year in and year out compared to other GMs.

Nobody comes close, nobody (over the last 14 years the next most consistently winning team drafted as an average 4 or 5 spots ahead of the Patriots).

OhExaulted1 said:

BTW, Michelle Felger is crap.

Click to expand...

Since the Revis signing Felger and Mazz have spent even number days ranting about the cap being crap and Patriots being a cheap. On even number of days the shows theme revolves around the B's suckage due to mismanaging the cap and putting themselves in cap jail.

Even the ultimate DB should realize the hypocrisy of his statements. As many have said, we are lucky to be fans of a team that is in the hunt year in and year out despite a system designed to knock down good teams and prop up bad teams. Miguel, your efforts are appreciated.

Sure, the cap is crap. You can always find cap money. Just ask Jerry Jones and Tony Romo. A simple credit card restructure found Jerry $12.8 million in cap space.

But, consider this. Romo had spinal fusion back surgery before the 2014 season and suffered another back injury (fractured spinous process) that required him to take a Toradol shot before every game for the second half of the 2014 season. I would put Romo in the high risk category for a career-ending injury on any given Sunday.

With the recent restructure, if Romo were to retire, get cut, or get traded, the Cowboys would take a $45 million dead money cap hit. Try stocking a roster with a $45 million dead money hit for a single player and no starting QB.

If he makes it through 2015 and they don't do another restructure, they can breath a sigh of relief. The dead money hit for 2016 would be "only" $32 million. Try stocking a roster with a $32 million cap hit for a single player and no starting QB.

And, if he plays two more seasons with his bad back and they don't restructure again, the dead mony hit will only be $19 million in 2017. Try stocking a roster with a $19 million cap hit for a single player and no starting QB. At least this one is in the realm of possibility, but to even get to that unfortunate place, Romo has got to survive two more seasons. He'll have to play at 36 years old with a fused spine in 2016 just to get to the $19 million dead money hit for 2017.

So, yeah. the cap is crap.... as long as Tony Romo can keep playing year after year after year following spinal fusion. Maybe being an NFL QB is easier on broken backs, I don't know. In real world, they don't generally get better with age.....

One other thought that the cap is crap folk don't think about. The Pats took a major haircut on the salary cap releasing Aaron Hernandez immediately after he had signed a big extension with a big signing bonus. They've survived it, but don't kid yourself... that was a very serious cap blow and not the kind of cap blow that can be budgeted or planned.

If the Pats had taken that kind of kick to the groin while already living on the salary cap credit card, they would have been gutting the team.

While not everyone has a Hernandez fiasco, you have to expect the occasional body slam to your cap planning. Rosie Colvin suffers what is essentially a career ending injury in the first game after a big free agent contract. Robert Edwards suffers a career ending beach volleyball injury at the Pro Bowl after signing a 1st round draft pick contract. It's football. Players careers can and do end. At least with a young player, you can roll the dice. But, you start playing dead money russian roulette with older players and you can find yourself virtually unable to field a team. There are plenty of examples of NFL teams that have been blown up.

You don't gut the team by cutting vet minimum players. You gut the team by cutting top players and the crucial mid-tier depth that is the difference between winning and losing in December.