NFL to Hire Sarah Thomas as First Female Official

PatriotsReign said:

I'm fine with a female ref.

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I'm not, and also not ashamed to admit it. I see this purely as a PR gimmick. Men and women are equal but different. Not everything in life is gender interchangeable.

PatsWickedPissah said:

It's the 21st century. Women play sports. Get hurt. Fly jets. Get killed serving their country in the military.
They can handle being on a football field as a ref.

But I'm with Deus. Qualified. No pandering, No quotas.

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There will be pandering and quotas. There is no reason to believe otherwise when people, politics, media and suspect motivations are involved.
The idea of 'if qualified and capable one should be given the opportunity' is the ideal. It's a great ideal too. But the specific question at hand is more complex than it's the 21st century or whether she is or isn't qualified. As of today people, media, politicians etc treat genders differently. The established social norms are different. So, ultimately, what this will mean is the game may change in ?? ways to accommodate the different norms and expectations.
A good question is, should the game change to accommodate the different norms? Football is a classic emblem of masculinity. Nearly everything surrounding it is built on male specific ritual. The game itself was and has evolved into an exercise of male specific physical strengths. In this day and age, however, maybe it is best to not have something that is so obviously gender specific?? Either way, the closer females get to the snap of the ball, and as soon as that happens enough with it cycling through media and society, it is likely to bring about change, albeit slowly.

TheBostonStraggler said:

In this day and age, however, maybe it is best to not have something that is so obviously gender specific??

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Why the hell not? There is nothing wrong with many things that are "gender specific." Why not accept and celebrate those differences instead of trying to obliterate them in the name of misguided political correctness?

Tunescribe said:

Why the hell not? There is nothing wrong with many things that are "gender specific." Why not accept and celebrate those differences instead of trying to obliterate them in the name of misguided political correctness?

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Tune, I wasn't making a judgment on what is right or wrong, and I did not intend to endorse political correctness.
But if something is a foregone conclusion - whether the forgone conclusion is a good/proper or bad/improper thing -- the thinking behind and road to its eventuality should be honest and logical(thoughtful). "As long as X can do the job" isn't thoughtful, it's mostly just an ideal (though a good one from a general perspective).

TheBostonStraggler said:

Tune, I wasn't making a judgment on what is right or wrong, and I did not intend to endorse political correctness.
But if something is a foregone conclusion - whether the forgone conclusion is a good/proper or bad/improper thing -- the thinking behind and road to its eventuality should be honest and logical(thoughtful). "As long as X can do the job" isn't thoughtful, it's mostly just an ideal (though a good one from a general perspective).

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It's unclear to me what you're trying to say here. You mean, female refs in the NFL are inevitable so we should just accept it?

Personally, I don't really care that much as long as they get the call correct. I haven't read through the thread, but I'd assume that to be a popular thought.

Tunescribe said:

It's unclear to me what you're trying to say here. You mean, female refs in the NFL are inevitable so we should just accept it?

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Im more afraid of the media pushing it down our throats, I Dont Care, I watch football for entertainment, not some PC stuff, If I hear "first female" more than once, I will turn the TV off

Tunescribe said:

I'm not, and also not ashamed to admit it. I see this purely as a PR gimmick. Men and women are equal but different. Not everything in life is gender interchangeable.

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Yes it is likely PR
Yes there are gender differences which the PC crowd is anathema to recognize
Not everything life is gender interchangeable

I don't see what about being an NFL ref precludes a competent, motivated female from the role.
If she gets mowed down by player as refs sometimes do, that's her risk and problem.
Is there a minimum body mass requirement for male refs?

PatsWickedPissah said:

I don't see what about being an NFL ref precludes a competent, motivated female from the role. If she gets mowed down by player as refs sometimes do, that's her risk and problem.

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And as fans hoping simply to enjoy the game it also will be OUR risk and OUR problem. Because if she gets hurt it will lead international newscasts for a month. Or if she throws an unsportsmanlike conduct flag after mistakenly "hearing" someone call her a *****. Or if she tries to break up a fight and no one takes her seriously. Or if she just doesn't understand male culture in and around football well enough to inform her on-field decision making, for which command of the rules at the pro level isn't all that's needed. Or if she takes herself too seriously as a boundary breaking sociopolitical crusader and overcompensates any number of ways. I'm not saying any of these things will happen, but to me, opening that potential can of worms is not necessary.

Tunescribe said:

And as fans hoping simply to enjoy the game it also will be OUR risk and OUR problem. Because if she gets hurt it will lead international newscasts for a month. Or if she throws an unsportsmanlike conduct flag after mistakenly "hearing" someone call her a *****. Or if she tries to break up a fight and no one takes her seriously. Or if she just doesn't understand male culture in and around football well enough to inform her on-field decision making, for which command of the rules at the pro level isn't all that's needed. Or if she takes herself too seriously as a boundary breaking sociopolitical crusader and overcompensates any number of ways. I'm not saying any of these things will happen, but to me, opening that potential can of worms is not necessary.

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Im not afraid of that, she was an NCAA ref, with "boys", she will be dealing a little more (?) mature (?) men (?), i almost sure it wont be an issue. I feel we going to hear a lot of the "first female" for the first game, then hopefully, she will just become a ref,
Me, I think its more of PC stunt to bring in more female views

Tunescribe said:

And as fans hoping simply to enjoy the game it also will be OUR risk and OUR problem. Because if she gets hurt it will lead international newscasts for a month. Or if she throws an unsportsmanlike conduct flag after mistakenly "hearing" someone call her a *****. Or if she tries to break up a fight and no one takes her seriously. Or if she just doesn't understand male culture in and around football well enough to inform her on-field decision making, for which command of the rules at the pro level isn't all that's needed. Or if she takes herself too seriously as a boundary breaking sociopolitical crusader and overcompensates any number of ways. I'm not saying any of these things will happen, but to me, opening that potential can of worms is not necessary.

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Hiring a woman is a "potential can of worms" that should not be opened? This is just ridiculous and frankly embarrassing to read in the 21 century. Pretty much everything you wrote is based on some kind of distrust in women, not fact, like not being able to get respect. That's a question about personality, not gender. Or getting hit. If a 60 year old guy can take these hits then I have no doubt that a fairly well trained(which is to be expected of all refs) woman can take the hits as well.

Tunescribe said:

I'm not, and also not ashamed to admit it. I see this purely as a PR gimmick. Men and women are equal but different. Not everything in life is gender interchangeable.

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You realize you are talking about an employment opportunity, right? Actually it is more than that. It is the pinnacle of this career path. The very definition of glass ceiling.

What you seem to be saying is that regardless of whether or not a person can do this job, they should be disallowed solely on the basis of gender. That is just plain embarrassing to say out loud.

"Separate Different but equal." Really? Geez, man, what year is it.

Marinlik said:

Hiring a woman is a "potential can of worms" that should not be opened? This is just ridiculous and frankly embarrassing to read in the 21 century. Pretty much everything you wrote is based on some kind of distrust in women, not fact, like not being able to get respect. That's a question about personality, not gender. Or getting hit. If a 60 year old guy can take these hits then I have no doubt that a fairly well trained(which is to be expected of all refs) woman can take the hits as well.

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Haley said:

You realize you are talking about an employment opportunity, right? Actually it is more than that. It is the pinnacle of this career path. The very definition of glass ceiling.

What you seem to be saying is that regardless of whether or not a person can do this job, they should be disallowed solely on the basis of gender. That is just plain embarrassing to say out loud.

"Separate Different but equal." Really? Geez, man, what year is it.

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Forgive my having offended your fashionable PC sensibilities. I was addressing the anomaly of a female official on the field in an NFL game, not women's right to equality in the American workforce. "Distrust" has nothing to do with it, I merely posed hypotheticals specific to the phenomenon. I don't expect them to happen. I hope they don't happen. I feel that a male referee with equal experience and equal capability would be the better choice. It's my educated guess that (A) plenty qualified candidates await the opportunity and (B) Sarah Thomas leapfrogged them in the selection process specifically because of gender (re., PR potential). Might reverse gender discrimination be an issue here? Of course, the NFL will claim she was hired on merit alone.

PatsWickedPissah said:

Yes it is likely PR

I don't see what about being an NFL ref precludes a competent, motivated female from the role.

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How many women do you know that have played football at any level?
Can you name one female member of the sports media that ever made an intelligent and insightful comment about game of football? EVER?
The next woman I meet with anything more than a superficial knowledge of the rules of the game will be the first women I met with anything more than a superficial knowledge of the rules of the game.
Let's be honest, this is a man's game. Over the years, I've noticed that more and more women are watching the sport because they they caught up in the excitement of it but I find that they are mostly 1/2 paying attention whenever there's a group of them watching and I find myself being asked to repeatedly explain the basics of the game to them (which is as annoying as f*ck).
It's as if men can't be allowed to have anything they can enjoy for themselves without a bunch of feminazi's getting their panties in a wad.
F*ck this PC bullsh*t and all the women and b*tchboys that support it! It's gone way too far and needs to stop.

Marinlik said:

Hiring a woman is a "potential can of worms" that should not be opened? This is just ridiculous and frankly embarrassing to read in the 21 century. Pretty much everything you wrote is based on some kind of distrust in women, not fact, like not being able to get respect. That's a question about personality, not gender. Or getting hit. If a 60 year old guy can take these hits then I have no doubt that a fairly well trained(which is to be expected of all refs) woman can take the hits as well.

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Men and women are different. Men for example, are bigger and stronger, and less prone to injury when doing heavy physical activity, and they can actually take more punishment, in the case of a collision.

Tune's making some very good points, and there are some counterpoints worth discussing as well, but that will all be ignored, largely because most people are lazy idiots who can't be bothered to think, and just believe the PC nonsense being spewed to them. We'll continue to sacrifice common sense and logic on the altars of diversity and (mythological) equality.

It's a sad reality, but we've brought it upon ourselves.

YOUGOTMOSSED said:

How many women do you know that have played football at any level?
Can you name one female member of the sports media that ever made an intelligent and insightful comment about game of football? EVER?
The next woman I meet with anything more than a superficial knowledge of the rules of the game will be the first women I met with anything more than a superficial knowledge of the rules of the game.
Let's be honest, this is a man's game. Over the years, I've noticed that more and more women are watching the sport because they they caught up in the excitement of it but I find that they are mostly 1/2 paying attention whenever there's a group of them watching and I find myself being asked to repeatedly explain the basics of the game to them (which is as annoying as f*ck).
It's as if men can't be allowed to have anything they can enjoy for themselves without a bunch of feminazi's getting their panties in a wad.
F*ck this PC bullsh*t and all the women and b*tchboys that support it! It's gone way too far and needs to stop.

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I know a bunch of women that have played and plays football. Mean girls that could knock you on your ass. I've even had a girl in on my team.

The reason that a lot of the women that you see in sports media aren't that good at analyzing is because they weren't hired because their football knowledge, but because of their good looks. There are absolutely girls that have good knowledge of football. But please. Show the scientific research that shows that women, for some real reason are worse at understanding football. Show that women by their very nature and genes can't understand the game. Because that is what you are saying. Just because you don't know many girls that understand the sport does not mean that girls can't understand or be interested in the sport. I know a bunch of guys that just watch football because the excitement, but who knows basically nothing about the sport. Does that mean that guys can't understand football?

Can't wait for the NMFL....! "these girls are MEAN, man!!! Now THIS is REAL NFL football at last!!!"

Marinlik said:

I know a bunch of women that have played and plays football. Mean girls that could knock you on your ass.

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Stop. Just stop before you embarrass yourself. Unless you've met Tune, you have no idea where he'd fall on any "knock you on your ass" scale.

Wow. Just wow at some of these comments. I've seen female forum members post just fine with as much if not more knowledge than their male counterparts. Feminazis? Yes because equal rights is totally equatable to the mass murder of millions of innocents. Unbelievable.

The world is changing and thankfully a lot of the BS viewpoints revealed on this thread are dying out. Younger generations do not agree with your outdated beliefs. It may take a long long while til equality is truly achieved, but thankfully it's happening.

BTW- equality is not about taking all the fun things away from the men and giving it to the women. Its about allowing women to have the same freedom to choose, as men do. If a woman is competent and capable of reffing in the NFL, which she clearly has demonstrated the ability to do, then she should be allowed to do what she wants. Stop judging someone just because of your own preconceived limitations on what women are able to do. It only reflects poorly on you. She on the other hand, is now an NFL ref. Congrats to her.

Marinlik said:

The reason that a lot of the women that you see in sports media aren't that good at analyzing is because they weren't hired because their football knowledge, but because of their good looks. There are absolutely girls that have good knowledge of football. But please. Show the scientific research that shows that women, for some real reason are worse at understanding football. Show that women by their very nature and genes can't understand the game. Because that is what you are saying. Just because you don't know many girls that understand the sport does not mean that girls can't understand or be interested in the sport. I know a bunch of guys that just watch football because the excitement, but who knows basically nothing about the sport. Does that mean that guys can't understand football?

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As I tried to point out earlier: command of the rules is one thing, intuitively grasping the vagaries of male football culture and psyche is quite another. They go hand-in-hand and are infinitely more complex at the pro level. Sarah Thomas's knowledge of the rules certainly isn't what I'd be concerned about. Her ability to effectively apply that knowledge in a competitively heated male-centric environment is.