Byron Jones

BelichickFan said:

That's not a good test, unless they fail a drug test - or are named Alfonso Dennard - the weeks leading up to the draft aren't prime time for behavioral issues. His run in with coaches is a HUGE concern if he were to come to a team that coaches it's players very hard in N.E.

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No it is not. But if he was not on his best behavior it be a much bigger red flag. The issues he had were overall fairly minor so I think if he can control himself in this 4 month time period when things really matter it is at least a signal that when the money is finally put on the table he will conduct himself in a professional manor. It is not ideal but what would be ideal is none of these players ever having off field issues.

I agree it is not the best test but not meaningless either.

I really like Jones as well. His vertical jump is ridiculous

Ochmed Jones said:

When you look at tape of all the CB's in this draft, it is Peters that stands out as having great film. If he had any maturity at all, he would be a top ten pick.

Jones's tape is not that good. But his combine numbers have the wow factor.

I like Williams of FSU a lot. He has big game experience and can play man and zone.

I also like Johnson of WF, although he gives up a ton of underneath catches. Could be scheme related or he does not trust his speed.

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I disagree 1000% that Jones' tape is "not that good". Best tape of any CB. Peters and Johnson come close but Johnson is terribly scheme limited and Johnson is very good but lacks the size to dominate receivers.

mayoclinic said:

I'm just yanking your chain. No foul intended.

We dissect late round/UDFA prospects on the draft board with a fine tooth comb, much less guys with huge athleticism and upside like Jones, Bud Dupree and TJ Clemmings, all of whom get discussed here with the same enthusiasm that deflategate gets discussed on the main board. There are about 50 threads discussing Jones extensively. He was the concensus first round choice at #32 in the board mock a week or so ago. Very few prospects have been more discussed.

Personally, I think that the fact that Jones ran 4.36 (unofficial; I've seen 4.41 reported as well) at his pro day is irrelevant. We already knew he was going to run fast based on his VJ and BJ, and that box has been checked off long ago. He's a high character guy with freakish athleticism and high upside. His tape is good (better in off man and zone than in press-man), but hard to evaluate because of his shoulder injury. I currently have him as my #2 CB prospect after Marcus Peters, and well worth taking at #32 if he's still on the board.

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We certainly didn't "know" he was going to run fast, it was one of the main concerns of people in the mock draft we ran when they went with Collins before Jones. PJ Williams had very good jumps but ran in the late 4.5s at the combine. Jones running a 4.3-4.4 is far from irrelevant for a cornerback where speed is essential.

I said it in another thread but Jones has excellent off-man and zone technique and supports the run really well. He hasn't show the ability to be a press corner so I knock him down a peg for that. He was only asked to do so sparingly so I'm not saying he cannot.

For me I like Peters, Rowe and Jones is third. Later in the draft I like Cox, Golson and Coleman. I think Cox and Coleman could become press guys with Cox a potential safety as well and Coleman a potential slot guy. I think Golson is a slot guy.

Having that much speed and vertical "jumps" could be huge for the ability to knock down passes and staying with both tall and speedy WRs.

manxman2601 said:

Best CB in the draft,

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Certainly not based on his tape. Not close. But his trajectory could easily end up making him the best pro CB of the bunch.

Ochmed Jones said:

When you look at tape of all the CB's in this draft, it is Peters that stands out as having great film. If he had any maturity at all, he would be a top ten pick.

Jones's tape is not that good. But his combine numbers have the wow factor.

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Pretty much.

manxman2601 said:

I disagree 1000% that Jones' tape is "not that good". Best tape of any CB. Peters and Johnson come close but Johnson is terribly scheme limited and Johnson is very good but lacks the size to dominate receivers.

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I'm fine with Jones' tape combined with his athleticism, and fine with him as a 1st round prospect. But as far as I can tell, you are in a group of 1 in terms of believing that he is the best CB in this class based on his tape - not that you couldn't end up being smarter than the rest of us, but I don't see it, and I haven't seen anyone suggest it.

mayoclinic said:

Certainly not based on his tape. Not close. But his trajectory could easily end up making him the best pro CB of the bunch.


Pretty much.


I'm fine with Jones' tape combined with his athleticism, and fine with him as a 1st round prospect. But as far as I can tell, you are in a group of 1 in terms of believing that he is the best CB in this class based on his tape - not that you couldn't end up being smarter than the rest of us, but I don't see it, and I haven't seen anyone suggest it.

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I'm fine with being in a group of one. Wouldn't be the first time.

manxman2601 said:

We certainly didn't "know" he was going to run fast, it was one of the main concerns of people in the mock draft we ran when they went with Collins before Jones. PJ Williams had very good jumps but ran in the late 4.5s at the combine. Jones running a 4.3-4.4 is far from irrelevant for a cornerback where speed is essential.

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Jones already got checked off for ridiculous athleticism based on his Combine performance. I personally don't think that his 40 time adds anything significant. It was widely discussed since the day of his Combine performance. Mayock among others stated publicly that his vert and BJ should translate to a 4.3-4.4 40 time. It would have been a huge question mark if he had run a 4.5 after putting up those kind of numbers. I don't believe in upgrading a player twice, and at least for me Jones' athleticism had already upgraded his rating based on film alone.

Jones will be a good player but I have my doubts about his shut down abilities. If people are expecting that from him then they will be disappointed. I see him having a higher floor but lower ceiling than Jalen Collins. With the right coaching Collins could be a monster.

And sure it's good that he has experience at both S and CB, but frankly just give me a guy that can play CB well. I'll find someone else to play safety.

I think Peters can be a shut down corner, although his deep speed concerns me. PJ Williams gets beat an awful lot for a guy who is supposedly a high pick. Could see him playing the slot and blitzing a lot. Darby is the best CB on that team.

reflexblue said:

I'd be hesitant about taking a u conn player so high, both donald brown and darious butler were first round busts.

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Butler and Brown have both actually turned into decent players, more Butler than Brown.

zimmy said:

Jones will be a good player but I have my doubts about his shut down abilities. If people are expecting that from him then they will be disappointed. I see him having a higher floor but lower ceiling than Jalen Collins. With the right coaching Collins could be a monster.

And sure it's good that he has experience at both S and CB, but frankly just give me a guy that can play CB well. I'll find someone else to play safety.

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I personally agree with this. I can understand the appeal of versatile guys who can play CB and S and play a bunch of different styles, and it could well be what BB prefers. But I'm personally interested in guys who will be good press-man CBs. I think Jones could well be, but he's far from a given.

im not well versed on him at all but he seems like the kind of guy who is very boom or bust and I dont really like taking that kind of player in the 1st round. He is still very intriguing

meatface said:

Butler and Brown have both actually turned into decent players, more Butler than Brown.

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Meh,
as high as they were chosen i would expect more. I'm not sure but didn't the pats let butler walk? I only reason i know butler is on the colts is because we played them. Brown, i'm not even sure if hes still playing with indy, i didn't hear his name much.

I think it's safe to say that there's a lot of stuff being said in this thread that I strongly disagree with. I shall just say that he is probably my 1 prospect on my board and I'd happily trade up to get him. I shall continue to maintain that he's the best CB in the draft from what I've seen and I think is a GREAT fit for the Pats (which probably kills any chance we draft him).

I'll leave it at that.

reflexblue said:

I'd be hesitant about taking a u conn player so high, both donald brown and darious butler were first round busts.

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Darius Butler is still playing. A seventh year is not bad for a bust 2nd round pick.

I just can't get a handle on this guy. He has been ranked from low 1st to 7th round. Lindy's draft magazine didn't even have him listed. having a fast 40 is fine but does it translate to the football field. If he does not read and react well, then his fast 40 time is only good for chasing down players who have blow by him.

I certainly want to see more about him over the next month.

reflexblue said:

Meh,
as high as they were chosen i would expect more. I'm not sure but didn't the pats let butler walk? I only reason i know butler is on the colts is because we played them. Brown, i'm not even sure if hes still playing with indy, i didn't hear his name much.

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Yes they cut him and then he spent a year in Carolina before going to Indi. But he's gotten a new contract extension from them. Brown signed a 3 year deal with the chargers for $10+ million

manxman2601 said:

I think it's safe to say that there's a lot of stuff being said in this thread that I strongly disagree with. I shall just say that he is probably my 1 prospect on my board and I'd happily trade up to get him. I shall continue to maintain that he's the best CB in the draft from what I've seen and I think is a GREAT fit for the Pats (which probably kills any chance we draft him).

I'll leave it at that.

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I guess I don't understand why you seem so put off by the discussion. I haven't seen much Jones bashing in this thread.

6 weeks ago Jones was an afterthought. Daniel Jeremiah snuck him in at the bottom of a top 50 list, but he was probably a late day 2 / early day 3 prospect going into the Combine. Then he became an overnight Youtube sensation. His tape got re-evaluated, and it is good, particularly in off-man coverage. There is no doubt that he was being overlooked, and is a much better prospect than generally regarded prior to the Combine. He has excellent schematic and positional versatility, great character and intangibles, terrific size and athleticism, and tons of upside. There's little to dislike. I have no problem labelling him a 1st round prospect, with anyone thinking he has the highest ceiling or "trajectory" of any CB prospect, or with anyone making him their preferred CB candidate. I readily admit that it is quite possible that BB may prefer him above other CBs for the reasons you state, though trying to figure out what BB is thinking is pretty futile.

What I find perplexing is the sudden rush to declare Jones one of the "safest" CB picks in the draft, to assert that he has the "best tape of any CB" when he played injured most of this year, to give him double credit for showing essentially the same athleticism at his pro day that he showed at the Combine, or to get upset when others happen to like other CBs more, particularly guys like Peters and Rowe with more developed press-man skill sets. Jones is an excellent prospect. But he's not a consensus top 10 pick, though it's not out of the question that he ends up being one.

Can you stop with this "sudden rush", "YouTube sensation", "snuck in" stuff please.