Reiss expects Pats to be fined-deflategate? No farking way

Ivan · Mar 28, 2015

Chiuba E. Obele said:
I think the truth lies somewhere in between. I don't like conspiracy theories, and unlike others, I do not feel that Goodell personally despises the franchise. I feel other important NFL officials may resent us, but I don't think the NFL has an axe to grind with the Patriots. I believe we make the NFL better. I believe we help rake in $$$$ for the league. I don't the League needs us more than they realize.

I do also believe that the the NFL has serious credibility issues, and I believe deflategate is being fueled by the public's perception of, and the generally dislike towards the Patriots. Rather than quell these suspicions, the NFL has only helped to reinforce them, by pouring millions of dollars into a sham of an investigation. This needed to be resolved BEFORE the Super Bowl, but instead, they've chosen to prolong it, with absolutely NO deadline whatsoever. Tell me Ivan, why is that the case?

LOL, I commend you by the way for taking such a principled stance. But in all seriousness, you would STOP WATCHING FOOTBALL??

[Skip Bayless Voice] Are you kidding me!!! [/Skip Bayless Voice]

Dude, we're just coming off from watching the best Super Bowl in recent memory - perhaps the best of all time. Tom Brady arguably delivered his finest performance yet, and promises to give us more. And Belichick is more eager than ever, to win a fifth Super Bowl. A FIFTH Super Bowl!!! Are you sure you'd be willing to give all that up?

You asked what could be done and I answered, I also said that the vast majority of football fans would be unwilling to do so. One is for fans not to buy NFL merchandize and the other is to stop following football altogether. The first I have already done and the second I'm giving serious thought to. The more the NFL does to dilute the game for fantasy footballs sake the worse the game gets in my opinion, and the more sh.t the Patriots take without firing back the more tired I get of dealing with the bullsh.t. I don't believe the Patriots will be sanctioned for deflategate and I don't believe the Patriots will take it if that does happen, but if the cynics are right and that does happen I will be much closer to saying f.ck it altogether than ever before. There was a time when I wouldn't have considered giving football up, now it's more than likely.

Ivan · Mar 28, 2015

rlcarr said:
I'm confident there will be virtually no lies in the Wells report at all. Any assertions of fact in the report are highly likely to be true.

That doesn't for a second mean that things which would show the NFL in a bad light won't be heavily minimized or even omitted.

Despite what Goodell claims, this is not an independent report. It's a report paid for by the NFL and being done by someone who has had plenty of business from the NFL. No lawyer is going to issue a report that buries his paying client. Both because it would be stupid and because it violates legal ethics about obligation to the client.

Anyhow, I said nothing about the report containing lies. I said I expect Goodell to fine NE for an equipment violation - that violation being that at least one ball was out of spec when measured during the game. And that he'll handwave around the weather and that none other than NE fans will care about the bogosity of that.

Measured by who?

Ivan · Mar 28, 2015

rlcarr said:
I'm confident there will be virtually no lies in the Wells report at all. Any assertions of fact in the report are highly likely to be true.

That doesn't for a second mean that things which would show the NFL in a bad light won't be heavily minimized or even omitted.

Despite what Goodell claims, this is not an independent report. It's a report paid for by the NFL and being done by someone who has had plenty of business from the NFL. No lawyer is going to issue a report that buries his paying client. Both because it would be stupid and because it violates legal ethics about obligation to the client.

Anyhow, I said nothing about the report containing lies. I said I expect Goodell to fine NE for an equipment violation - that violation being that at least one ball was out of spec when measured during the game. And that he'll handwave around the weather and that none other than NE fans will care about the bogosity of that.

Either the report is honest or it isn't, lying by omission or deliberately constructing it so it doesn't reflect the truth is still a lie. "Virtually no lies" is still lies. Either Wells is complicit in helping the league lie or he isn't, you can't have it both ways.

VectorPrime · Mar 28, 2015

I'm a proponent of the theory that Kraft was the one responsible for getting Wells involved in the first place because Kensil was going to wrap up his sham of an 'investigation' within 3-4 days like the initial reports said. So wells might not be with the league on this.

Ivan · Mar 28, 2015

flasox27 said:
My response is that he has already proven he can make up sh=t, Remember when the Jets were caught filming the Pats from an illegal position, the League office stated that it was OK because the Pats gave them permission so no punishment was required. Does anyone believe that BB or any one with the Pats gave them permission . Goodell also said that he never knew the extent of what Rice did to his wife. Does anyone really believe that is true. Furthermore, Goodell's once and future buddy Kraft and the other owners have him the authority to interpret rules and mete punishment as he saw fit. The rule says that the balls have to be a prescribed pressure, When Kensil, Goodell's number two man measured them, they were not at that pressure. A violation occurred and a fine will be meted out. How the pressure went down due to scientific conditions or magical pixies punching holes in the balls does not matter.

You keep saying that the league approved it but try as I may I can only find reports of the Jets saying they had permission. Can you provide a link to the league approving it?

Ivan · Mar 28, 2015

VectorPrime said:
I'm a proponent of the theory that Kraft was the one responsible for getting Wells involved in the first place because Kensil was going to wrap up his sham of an 'investigation' within 3-4 days like the initial reports said. So wells might not be with the league on this.

Yep. I think the reason that Vincent said it would only take a few days was because they planned on keeping it in house and once the Patriots realized that Kensil was the one both leaking and driving the investigation they demanded an independent investigation and Goodell acceded to their request, and I think that the fact that an NFL employee was fired for activities involving game balls in that game left Goodell with absolutely no choice but to go along with the request. Unlike many here I think Wells values his reputation more than he does getting work from the NFL and he won't risk his reputation to whitewash an investigation for the NFL. Wells is a big name in legal circles and routinely takes on cases that will garner national attention, he has far more to lose by squandering his integrity to give the NFL cover than he does by simply providing an honest and accurate account of what happened. If it came out after the fact that Wells had tailored his findings to appease the NFL It would cost him far more than doing work for the NFL gains him.

flasox27 · Mar 28, 2015

Ivan said:
You keep saying that the league approved it but try as I may I can only find reports of the Jets saying they had permission. Can you provide a link to the league approving it?

Two points, Goodell's mouthpiece came out with the response in stating why the Jets were not punished. I will try to find a link for it.
Secondly, to the best of my knowledge the rule says that the pressure must be maintained at a certain level, In this scenario which I think Goodell will use "The number two man in the league office, Kensil verified that one or more balls was below the level. Ipso Facto, the rule was violated and punishment is warranted. How the pressure went down does not need to be determined."

Ivan · Mar 28, 2015

flasox27 said:
Two points, Goodell's mouthpiece came out with the response in stating why the Jets were not punished. I will try to find a link for it.
Secondly, to the best of my knowledge the rule says that the pressure must be maintained at a certain level, In this scenario which I think Goodell will use "The number two man in the league office, Kensil verified that one or more balls was below the level. Ipso Facto, the rule was violated and punishment is warranted. How the pressure went down does not need to be determined."

Kensil does not have the authority to either check or alter a game ball.

flasox27 · Mar 28, 2015

Ivan said:
Kensil does not have the authority to either check or alter a game ball.

Keep in mind, he is the number two man in the league office and Goodell's most important henchman. He could have been authorized by Goodell to examine and measure the game balls if he thought something was amiss. Goodell has been known to interpret rules as he sees fit.

PatsWickedPissah · Mar 28, 2015

Ivan said:
Kensil does not have the authority to either check or alter a game ball.

But the guy who rules on that is Roget Jetdell

The Gr8est · Mar 28, 2015

Chiuba E. Obele said:
I think the truth lies somewhere in between. I don't like conspiracy theories, and unlike others, I do not feel that Goodell personally despises the franchise. I feel other important NFL officials may resent us, but I don't think the NFL has an axe to grind with the Patriots. I believe we make the NFL better. I believe we help rake in $$$$ for the league. I think the League needs us more than they realize.

I do also believe that the the NFL has serious credibility issues, and I believe deflategate is being fueled by the public's perception of, and the generally dislike towards the Patriots. Rather than quell these suspicions, the NFL has only helped to reinforce them, by pouring millions of dollars into a sham of an investigation. This needed to be resolved BEFORE the Super Bowl, but instead, they've chosen to prolong it, with absolutely NO deadline whatsoever. Tell me Ivan, why is that the case?

LOL, I commend you by the way for taking such a principled stance. But in all seriousness, you would STOP WATCHING FOOTBALL??

[Skip Bayless Voice] Are you kidding me!!! [/Skip Bayless Voice]

Dude, we're just coming off from watching the best Super Bowl in recent memory - perhaps the best of all time. Tom Brady arguably delivered his finest performance yet, and promises to give us more. And Belichick is more eager than ever, to win a fifth Super Bowl. A FIFTH Super Bowl!!! Are you sure you'd be willing to give all that up?

I gave up watching professional wrestling as a youth when I realized it was fake, and I have never been a boxing fan as there are legitimate reasons to think it isn't totally above board.

Once I become disillusioned about the integrity of the NFL, then the next step will not only be easy, it will be unthinkable not to stop watching it.

One of the things that make the NFL great is the pure competition. If I become convinced the NFL is striving for certain results, like a Manning-Manning SB, or a Harbaugh-Harbaugh SB, or whatever theme they want, and my team's continued excellence gets in the way of those desires, to the point that the team I follow gets treated differently than others, or even has offenses manufactured to prosecute them for, well there isn't anything I can do except walk away.

The Gr8est · Mar 28, 2015

flasox27 said:
Keep in mind, he is the number two man in the league office and Goodell's most important henchman. He could have been authorized by Goodell to examine and measure the game balls if he thought something was amiss. Goodell has been known to interpret rules as he sees fit.

Not that I don't believe you but can you provide a link showing Kensil is the #2 authority in the NFL?

PatsWickedPissah · Mar 28, 2015

The Gr8est said:
I gave up watching professional wrestling as a youth when I realized it was fake, and I have never been a boxing fan as there are legitimate reasons so think it isn't totally above board.

Once I become disillusioned about the integrity of the NFL, then the next step will not only be easy, it will be unthinkable not to stop watching it.

One of the things that make the NFL great is the pure competition. If I become convinced the NFL is striving for certain results, like a Manning-Manning SB, or a Harbaugh-Harbaugh SB, or whatever theme they want, and my team's continued excellence gets in the way of those desires, to the point that the team I follow gets treated differently than others, or even has offenses manufactured to prosecute them for, well there isn't anything I can do except walk away.

Quit watching MLB

Gave up on the NBA because of how games were reffed

I can easily envision giving up on the NFL most likely post BB and Brady if the rule changes really compromise the sport (but I'm FOR rational rules protecting players from head shots) and most likely if I become convinced that game or SB outcome is rigged in any substantive manner

Of course I'm the 5 sigma exception as NFL popularity skyrockets

flasox27 · Mar 28, 2015

The Gr8est said:
Not that I don't believe you but can you provide a link showing Kensil is the #2 authority in the NFL?

Correction:Kensil is in charge of game operations and was specifically hired by Goodell from the Jets. Troy Vincent is theoretically in charge of football operations but as noted by his lack of knowledge of what is actually going on in the investigations, he is out of the loop and a figurehead.

Koma · Mar 28, 2015

VectorPrime said:
Back in January there were a bunch of examinations into the drop off in fumbles since 2007 and the "conspiracy theories" that the Patriots must have been screwing with the balls ever since then. They were all easily debunked. Anyone have some of the links to these?

This article from 538.com has links to 5 other articles that debunked the original study that claimed the Patriots fumble rate was out of the ordinary.

Joker · Mar 28, 2015

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/mike-kensil/15/a7/42b

Kensil is VP of game operations for the NFL. HE is the one who burned the Patriots in Spygate and let the Jets walk away from the in game tripping incident with nothing but a flunky firing and a 100K fine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sal_Alosi

During a game against the Miami Dolphins on December 12, 2010, Alosi stuck out his knee and tripped Nolan Carroll as the latter was running down the sideline during a punt return. Two days later, the Jets suspended him indefinitely after it was discovered that he had instructed inactive Jets players to line up along the sideline so as to potentially impede opposing players. General manager Mike Tannenbaum said that Alosi had initially not been truthful about how the wall had been formed. Alosi was fined $25,000 by the Jets and suspended for the remainder of the 2010 season.[6] The NFL subsequently fined the Jets $100,000 for Alosi's actions.[7]

Alosi resigned from the Jets on January 31, 2011 and hasn't signed a contract in the NFL since the tripping incident.[8]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sal_Alosi#cite_note-8

Vice President of Game Operations
National Football League
February 2006 – Present (9 years 2 months)
Vice Pres. of Football Operations
New York Jets
May 1977 – February 2006 (28 years 10 months)

THAT is Kensil's work history in the NFL. Are ANY of you going to sit there and tell me this person does NOT have an extremely vested interest in the fortunes of the NY Jets? TWENTY EIGHT FRIGGIN' YEARS? and you want me to believe this azzole DOESN'T have an agenda? Why is he there, right in the perfect position to wreak as much damage on the Patriots while minimizing decisions against his former employer for 28 years? Do any of you seriously believe that a head coach does NOT know that a formation using HIS PLAYERS to form a wall and trip opposing players in play is being practiced multiple times right under his own eyes? Really? If I serve you a plate of dog shyt and tell you it's beef stew will you PAY ME 10 bucks a plate? I could use some easy "sucker" money.

PatsWickedPissah · Mar 28, 2015

I'm not an epicurean expert but in my experience beef stew, even on a military base, tastes better than dog shyt

Joker · Mar 28, 2015

and one more question for all you fans who think "all is well...pure as the driven snow"...if YOU were an owner and you were going to have the say in the construction of the NFL offices, would you hire employees of one of the worst run organizations in the league to people its' heirarchy? Why all these Jet former employees? Could it be they are entwined with the NY centric advertising and communication entities, a little billionaire boys club of NY movers and shakers? Where's the KC, SF, Texas and Florida representatives in this business heirarchy? I'll tell you where, they DON'T exist.

flasox27 · Mar 28, 2015

Joker said:
and one more question for all you fans who think "all is well...pure as the driven snow"...if YOU were an owner and you were going to have the say in the construction of the NFL offices, would you hire employees of one of the worst run organizations in the league to people its' heirarchy? Why all these Jet former employees? Could it be they are entwined with the NY centric advertising and communication entities, a little billionaire boys club of NY movers and shakers? Where's the KC, SF, Texas and Florida representatives in this business heirarchy? I'll tell you where, they DON'T exist.

Absolutely correct sir. Ray Anderson was replaced by Troy Vincent as the figurehead but Kensil remained in charge.

Clonamery · Mar 28, 2015

Joker said:
and one more question for all you fans who think "all is well...pure as the driven snow"...if YOU were an owner and you were going to have the say in the construction of the NFL offices, would you hire employees of one of the worst run organizations in the league to people its' heirarchy? Why all these Jet former employees? Could it be they are entwined with the NY centric advertising and communication entities, a little billionaire boys club of NY movers and shakers? Where's the KC, SF, Texas and Florida representatives in this business heirarchy? I'll tell you where, they DON'T exist.

It's probably because the owners don't want to pay anyone to relocate to New York. Save the money, incompetence is free when you're a Jet!

Reiss expects Pats to be fined-deflategate? No farking way

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