My Blueprint for the Defense

Gabriel_p94 said:

I don't think BB will take CB with the first unless he's sold on the prospect. He's not gonna reach for a player just to fill a need. I wouldn't be surprised if he goes DT and try to make the front 7 vicious.

But say we get Byron jones in he first, what do you guys think of Quentin Rollins in the fourth? I think both are good players and should be able to contribute early.

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Why is taking a CB a reach but not a DT? He has to take someone and both Byron Jones and Kevin Johnson are worthy of being taken at pick #33.

As for Rollins, as a mid- round guy,he's alright. He has decent skills but lacks the athleticism to be a #1 guy. I'm fine with him in the mid rounds.

Gabriel_p94 said:

I don't think BB will take CB with the first unless he's sold on the prospect.

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That's some deductive reasoning you got there.

At this point I'm not expecting any major additions before the draft. This is what I'd like to see:

- Two CBs who can play press-man at a very high level, and who have some schematic versatility. Marcus Peters, Byron Jones or Kevin Johnson (at +/- #32) plus Eric Rowe or Josh Shaw (late day 2/early day 3) would be ideal. Alternatively, the second CB could be more of a day 3 developmental guy with high upside, like Nick Marshall or Chris Conley.

- An athletic DT/DE. Marcus Hardison is my choice here.

- A developmental EDGE player. Davis Tull and Max Valles are my favorites. Day 3 pick, but could be as high as #101.

Other options which could be worth considering based on draft value might include:

- A day 3 jumbo DT like Leterrius Walton, Deon Simon, Terry Williams, or David Parry (undersized, but a run plugger).

- An off-LOS LB like Ben Heeney.

- Depth at FS like Cassius Sendish.

I'd be pretty happy with something like this, pending final cutdowns and injuries:

- "Big DTs" (Grizzlies/Yetis): Sealver Siliga, Alan Branch, rookie
- Hybrid DT/DEs (Wolves/Lions): Dominique Easley, Marcus Hardison, Chris Jones
- EDGE1 (Dragons): Chandler Jones, Rob Ninkovich, Dont'a Hightower, Jabaal Sheard, Zach Moore
- EDGE2 (Bandits): Jamie Collins, Davis Tull/Max Valles, Michael Buchanan, Darius Fleming
- Off-LOS LB (Midfielders and Gryphons): Jerod Mayo, Ben Heeney, James Morris
- FS (Eagles): Devin McCourty, Duron Harmon
- SS/LB hybrids (Star/Stud, or Gryphons): Patrick Chung, Tavon Wilson, Nate Ebner
- Outside CBs (Falcons): Marcus Peters/Byron Jones/Kevin Johnson, Bradley Fletcher, Eric Rowe, Chimdi Chekwa
- Slot/Nickel CBs (Hawks): Kyle Arrington, Malcolm Butler, Logan Ryan, Alfonzo Dennard, Robert McClain

I like Hardison a lot as well. Will he still be there at 64 though? Splash play (sacks, INTs, big play WRs) positions seem to move up on draft day and he seems good enough to take in the middle of round two.

VrabelJr said:

I like Hardison a lot as well. Will he still be there at 64 though? Splash play (sacks, INTs, big play WRs) positions seem to move up on draft day and he seems good enough to take in the middle of round two.

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Hardison has question marks about his work ethic and has question marks against the run. I'm hot and cold on him personally but the former question marks should ensure that he'll be available at 64. Whether Belichick is as concerned about his work ethic as others are would determine whether or not the Pats pull the trigger.

KontradictioN said:

Hardison has question marks about his work ethic and has question marks against the run. I'm hot and cold on him personally but the former question marks should ensure that he'll be available at 64. Whether Belichick is as concerned about his work ethic as others are would determine whether or not the Pats pull the trigger.

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I'm not aware of any questions about his work ethic. Todd Graham raves about his leadership and character:

http://www.statepress.com/2014/10/2...ring-into-defensive-stand-out-for-sun-devils/

mayoclinic said:

I'm not aware of any questions about his work ethic. Todd Graham raves about his leadership and character:

http://www.statepress.com/2014/10/2...ring-into-defensive-stand-out-for-sun-devils/

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I forget where I saw it, but I've seen question marks about his motor and whether he would play the same after receiving an NFL contract. Give me a minute, I'll try to find the source.

EDIT: Never mind. It was Rob Rang, who called him a "one year wonder". I misremembered the quote. Here it is...

More finesse than physical. Isn't as stout against the run as his size would indicate and struggles against double-teams. Relies upon his initial burst to penetrate, showing limited hand technique and strength to disengage once opponents lock on. Possesses only average balance for his position, too often getting knocked off his feet. Comes with typical one-year-wonder questions about his dedication and if the same intensity will be there after signing an NFL contract.

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My biggest question mark with Hardison is balance. He ends up on his backside too often - that's why I'm not convinced he can contribute on a consistent basis in year one. The problem is that it comes from him being so quick at the snap - he tends to over balance and offensive linemen can use that to push him to the ground. Fixing that quickly risks taking away Hardison's single biggest asset - his initial quickness.

It's interesting to revisit old threads to check if some future predictions made in the past were right, this is not an old thread because it keeps generating good discussions, but it started at the end of the 2013 season. One year later we successfully achieved our goal of winning a SB. I was looking to quote some of those posts emphasizing vision and long term approach because I'm now confused on what kind (if any) of vision our FO has now that we lost some good defensive players, if their plan got broken, if it's still on their way...too many questions, but I decided to quote a post of my own because I understand it was pretty accurate, our offense, struggling at the beginning of the season or not, did it. They did their homework and nailed on the test. Coming from big deficits against Ravens and Seahawks is no joke, it's kind of sad that the game ended up with the defense making a big play, because it took the lights off the brilliant performance of Brady and the guys.

varjao said:

We did everything we could do with our roster devastated by injuries and with plenty of rookies. We failed in some executions, specifically against Carolina and Miami. And one more win the outcome could be different (I don't think we would win Seattle anyway, but...).

So the target for the next season should be something on those lines, execute better, do not fail when the HFA is on the line. I know we won some games out of reach so that makes things kind of even, but we failed in 2 games in the same situation, 3 and 2 and they went for the pass. McDaniels or Brady, I don't know who called the play but that was awful. Both times the FG was not a good outcome, a 4th down was in order. 2 chances running the ball, you've got to get those yards or give up the game.

Last year Denver came up short because they played to not lose. This year Manning said many times that they focused on finishing games and making the victories guaranteed, not giving the other team a chance, and we can say they did that.

So as long as our defense need more players, the offense has the biggest homework imho. They need to get the HFA, this team was not built to win on the road, that will not change from one season to the next. It needs experience for that, this is a very young team and will become even more if they release some veterans and bring more youth.

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2015 New England Patriots Defense

http://www.patriots.com/team/roster

Defensive End: Ninkovich, Jones, Sheard, Buchanan, Moore, Bequette, Johnson
Defensive Tackle: Branch, Siliga, Johnson, Jones, Easley, Vellano
Linebackers: Mayo, Hightower, Collins, Fleming, White, Freeny, Skinner, Martin, Gordon, Morris
Safety: McCourty, Harmon, Chung, Wilson, Ebner
Cornerback: Arrington, Dennard, Ryan, Butler, Fletcher, McClain, Chekwa, Green, Swanson

Roster Distribution (24 minimum):
Defensive End: 4
Defensive Tackle: 4
Linebacker: 6
Safety: 5
Cornerback: 5

Roster Evaluation:
Weakest Position: Cornerback
Strongest Position: Safety

2015 NFL Draft:
Cornerback position, one early and one late (1st Round and 6th Round)
Defensive Tackle position, one late (7th Round)

Priority UDFAs (training camp fodder):
One Defensive End (Jermauria Rasco, Cory Morrissey, Tavaris Barnes)
One Inside Linebacker (Amarlo Herrera, Damien Wilson)
One Free Safety (Dean Marlowe, Nick Perry)
One Strong Safety (Isaiah Johnson, Ronald Martin)

Training Camp Distribution (minimum):
Defensive Ends - 7
Defensive Tackles - 7
Linebackers - 10
Cornerbacks - 9
Safeties - 7

Potential Position Conversion: Logan Ryan to Free Safety as a training camp exercise

I'm a lot more worried about the DT's than you Tipp. None have really established themselves as a full-time player yet. I feel the
combo of Branch/Siliga will be ok. I'm still worried about Easley's knee and Jones vs the run. I'd like another DT. I saw you moved up
for a cb in your last mock. No prob with that. But, I'm tempted to sit tight at 32, See who is there. Pick the cb you like. Move up in Round
2 to draft Carl Davis.

Morning. I'd like to expand a little bit on the notion of versatility. The Pats, quite obviously, highly value versatility. It will likely play an important role in who they draft as well as in who else they acquire. However, I think it's is a bigger issue at certain positions compared to others and really means different things depending on the position one is talking about. For example, I think offensively it's really important to have versatility at running back and tight end, but probably less so at tackle or wide out whereas defensively I think interior line is crucial. I think this may have played a role in why the Pats let
Shane Vereen go, for example. He was excellent in the passing game, but his inability to run between the tackles made the Pats less versatile whenever he was on the field. Blount suffers from the same issue: you know when he's on the field the Pats are going to run the ball. It makes the Pats less versatile within the context of a given play.

I think this issue could make a guy like Gurley potentially very valuable for the Pats. This is also the reason I was strongly advocating for an interior rusher who can play three downs, a centerpiece player who is equally effective against the run and the pass. I think having such a player at certain crucial positions such as tackle, running back, tight end, is really key to making your team multiple, more so than at cornerback, wide out, guard, etc. Versatility at those other positions is nice for roster building/protecting against injury, etc. but, I think, doesn't offer the same value in-game, where versatility allows you to threaten your opponent in different ways. I think these two notions of versatility are being conflated and I think they actually mean different things. Thoughts?

Honestly, I'm more in favor of a defensive line rotation. I don't want my linemen playing too many snaps because they wear down late in games. Have you noticed that late in the 4th quarter of most NFL games, offenses just march up and down the field like there isn't a defense on the field.

Gurley will be gone before 20. Not even thinking about him. If he slipped, playoff teams like; Dallas, Baltimore and Detroit could use him as much as we can. Seriously doubt that we have the chance to pick him.

mosi's man said:

I think this issue could make a guy like Gurley potentially very valuable for the Pats. This is also the reason I was strongly advocating for an interior rusher who can play three downs, a centerpiece player who is equally effective against the run and the pass. I think having such a player at certain crucial positions such as tackle, running back, tight end, is really key to making your team multiple, more so than at cornerback, wide out, guard, etc. Versatility at those other positions is nice for roster building/protecting against injury, etc. but, I think, doesn't offer the same value in-game, where versatility allows you to threaten your opponent in different ways. I think these two notions of versatility are being conflated and I think they actually mean different things. Thoughts?

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We have been discussing this a few times already.

I agree that in the end what you would like is an offensive set that doesn't give the opponent a key as to what kind of play will be run and also doesn't have a huge drop-off from using specialists (e.g. Vereen vs. Blount). We have a chess piece like this already in Gronk and Gurley could be another one that creates additional mismatches. Offensively a player like him who needs to be highly respected as a runner as well as receiver is the missing piece.

Depending on how the FO rates day2/3 DBs and trench players (OL + DL) I think it would be worth taking Gurley in the first. I know that we have needs at the above mentioned positions but we always say you don't draft for need. Well, there you go.

With the 2015 draft in the books, the Pats took 11 players, 7 of them on defense, but only 2 DBs: S Jordan Richards (6.74 3c) at 64, and CB Darryl Roberts (5'11" 187#, 438 40, 4.06 SS, 6.66 3C, 39" VJ, 11'1" BJ) at 247. They've added 2 more safeties so far as UDFAs: 6'2" 217# Brandon King from Auburn (4.40 40, 1.48 10-split, 38" VJ) and 6' 2" 202# Jimmy Jean from UAB (4.58 40).

Meanwhile the Pats clearly wanted to get faster up front, with an emphasis on versatility in a multi-front hybrid defense:

- Malcolm Brown (#32): 6'2" 319#. A prospect who can play from the 5 tech to the 0/1, who can 2-gap and is quick enough to penetrate in a 1-gap scheme. A rare combination of size, strength, quickness and versatility. Brown is not Vince Wilfork - he's much more of a hybrid lineman. His 1.75 10-split was comparable to that of Ndamukong Suh, Geno Atkins, Sheldon Richardson and Gerald McCoy. Brown and Dominique Easley will be a really interesting combination to watch.

- Geneo Grissom (#97): 6'3" 262#. Former TE who lined at at every spot on the DL for Oklahoma, and played LB as well. BB raved about his versatility:

“In 2013, they played a 3-4 defense,” Belichick said about Oklahoma. “He’s played under two different coordinators, but when Mike Stoops came back with his 3-4 defense, they didn’t have enough depth there at defensive end, so he played 4-technique in 2013 at 260 pounds. He was way undersized, but he competed well. They didn’t knock him off the line of scrimmage. He didn’t look like a linebacker in there. You probably wouldn’t think he’s that light. You wouldn’t know it by the way he played.

“He has good playing strength, runs well, This year, it looked like they had more depth on the defensive line, and they moved him to outside linebacker, so both last year and this year, on third down, he played end and then also bumped inside to an inside-rusher position. They had pretty good edge guys. (Eric) Striker and the other kid — underclassman. (Grissom’s) the guy who would move down inside at times. He was productive there against Alabama, for example. He’s rushed inside, he’s rushed outside. He’s played anywhere from the end of the line, five-technique, defensive end in a 4-3, outside lineabcker in a 3-4.”

From watching highlight reels of Grissom, he has a tendency to knock down passes at the line of scrimmage. His 37-inch vertical leap certainly helps in that department.

“I’d say he’s very instinctive as a pass rusher,” Belichick said. “And he’s in coverage a decent amount of the time as a walk-off linebacker, so you see a guy play out in space out over the slot, he does a lot of that. I’d say a guy to play from 3-technique to end of the line, to a walk-down linebacker — at the Senior Bowl they actually played him off the line, like in a tackle bubble — so he’s a pretty athletic, versatile guy.”

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http://nesn.com/2015/05/bill-belichick-raves-about-geneo-grissoms-versatility-along-front-seven/

It is extremely interesting to me that the Pats passed up Owamagbe Odighizuwa at 64 but then drafted Grissom at 97.

- Matthew Wells (#178): 6'2" 228#. Speed and athletic: 4.43 40, 1.58 10-split, 7.10 3C. BB has already referred to Wells as a hybrid LB/S:

"Linebacker. Fast. Safety. He kind of played SAM linebacker for Mississippi State," Bill Belichick said. "A lot of what he did was defensive back related, particularly when they faced spread offenses. He’s somewhere between a linebacker and a safety. Runs very well. Productive player on defense and the kicking game."

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http://www.providencejournal.com/article/20150502/SPORTS/150509782/13988?rssfeed=true

Like Grissom, Wells lacked a clear position, and played a variety of roles. As Nick O'Malley noted:

Wells has the size, frame and jersey number of a defensive back. Yet, with Mississippi State, he was assigned to an odd sort of hybrid role in the defense.

Wells isn't a defensive back, but he's far from a pure linebacker, either. He rarely lined up between the tackles and actually spent much of his time bumped out across from receivers across the formation. Wells showed off the speed and agility to run with receivers downfield in these situations. That could wind up being a valuable asset for the Patriots defense. If Bill Belichick is looking for a lighter linebacker that can also run with receivers, it gives him a versatile defender that doesn't have to be subbed out in passing situations to avoid mismatches.

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http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2015/05/who_is_matthew_wells_mystery_m.html

I think that guys like Grissom and Wells are fascinating - guys who don't fit clearly, and so most of the NFL doesn't know what to do with them. BB does. Jamie Collins was the same way, though with greater upside and freakish athleticism.

The ability to play multile roles and to fit into a hybrid scheme seems to be a common theme between Brown, Grissom and Wells. I'm less clear on how Trey Flowers and Xavier ****son fit (though Flowers' edge setting ability is obviously appealing). But the Pats seem intent on getting faster and even more versatile on defense, especially in the front 7. It will be interesting to see how the LB and back end of the defense fit as well. There seem to potentially be a lot of movable pieces.

Pressure up-front. Lots of it. Going back to Easley last year. We're going to get after some qb's this year. With only rushing 4-5. From the playoff team, we've added 3 edge rushers in; Sheard, Flowers and Grissom. Interior pressure from Easley and Brown. That's an incredible influx of talent for a Super Bowl Champion to add. I'm glad we have a deep DL rotation. It's hard to quantify. But, a little bit of pressure late in games can lead to turnovers.

With a run-heavy division, I think Mayo-Hightower-Collins get a lot of snaps in division games. I think Grissom is our Ayers replacement. And, Wells might be our Casillas replacement. Chris White is still a good ST player and backup.

Damn shame Revis wouldn't work with BB and be flexible. But, we knew he wouldn't be. We have almost 10m in cap space and can still re-work Solder. Oh well. Sure looks like more zone coming our way this year. I will say one thing. Good pressure up-front and your db's sitting in zone reading the qb's should lead to a lot more interceptions. Should really bother the young qb's on our sked; Geno Smith, EJ Manuel, Tanneyhill, Bortles, Mariota/Mettenberger, Mallett if he starts, RGIII, Sam Bradford. Luck and Eli will put the ball up for grabs too. We really only face 5 good qb's; Mannings, Romo, Roethlisberger, Luck. The Roberts kid from Marshall sure looks the part physically. I haven't seen any tape of him. I'll have to check it out.

patsfaninpa said:

Pressure up-front. Lots of it. Going back to Easley last year. We're going to get after some qb's this year. With only rushing 4-5. From the playoff team, we've added 3 edge rushers in; Sheard, Flowers and Grissom. Interior pressure from Easley and Brown. That's an incredible influx of talent for a Super Bowl Champion to add. I'm glad we have a deep DL rotation. It's hard to quantify. But, a little bit of pressure late in games can lead to turnovers.

With a run-heavy division, I think Mayo-Hightower-Collins get a lot of snaps in division games. I think Grissom is our Ayers replacement. And, Wells might be our Casillas replacement. Chris White is still a good ST player and backup.

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It's early, but I'm very encouraged by the potential versatility of Brown-Grissom-Wells in addition to the existing players. Wells is reportedly an ace STer, and a hybrid LB/S, and should fill the Jonathan Casillas role, and hopefully bump Chris White down the depth chart/off the roster. He has 4.43 speed at 223#, and Grissom seems like he could well be the #4 option at both DE and LB (not counting Easley as a DE): Jones-Ninovich-Sheard-Grissom at DE and Collins-Hightower-Mayo-Grissom at LB.

Right now I'm thinking of something like this:

DT (320#): Brown, Branch, Siliga
Hybrid DT/DE: Easley, Chris Jones, maybe Moore
EDGE (both DE and LB): Chandler Jones, Ninkovich, Sheard, Hightower, Collins, Grissom, Buchanan
Off LOS LB: Mayo, Wells

That's a pretty strong and versatile 15. Wells also figures into the back end as a LB/S hybrid.

That's ignoring Flowers and ****son, who could obviously have a role, but I'm less clear on how they fit as versatile hybrids. But competition will sort things out.

mayoclinic said:

Grissom seems like he could well be the #4 option at both DE and LB

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Does he? I'm really asking because I've seen almost no film on him. I have no idea how good he is.

mayoclinic said:

It's early, but I'm very encouraged by the potential versatility of Brown-Grissom-Wells in addition to the existing players. Wells is reportedly an ace STer, and a hybrid LB/S, and should fill the Jonathan Casillas role, and hopefully bump Chris White down the depth chart/off the roster. He has 4.43 speed at 223#, and Grissom seems like he could well be the #4 option at both DE and LB (not counting Easley as a DE): Jones-Ninovich-Sheard-Grissom at DE and Collins-Hightower-Mayo-Grissom at LB.

Right now I'm thinking of something like this:

DT (320#): Brown, Branch, Siliga
Hybrid DT/DE: Easley, Chris Jones, maybe Moore
EDGE (both DE and LB): Chandler Jones, Ninkovich, Sheard, Hightower, Collins, Grissom, Buchanan
Off LOS LB: Mayo, Wells

That's a pretty strong and versatile 15. Wells also figures into the back end as a LB/S hybrid.

That's ignoring Flowers and ****son, who could obviously have a role, but I'm less clear on how they fit as versatile hybrids. But competition will sort things out.

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I think Flowers is much more of a 4-3 de than Grissom right now. Flowers played LDE in a 4-3 in a very run-heavy division SEC West. He'll back Ninko up IMO. Sheard backs Chandler Jones up. I see Grissom being used in an Ayers type role. More of a situational pass rusher. Big 12 is a spread wide-open league. Don't think he's ready for a 4-3 end until we go with a lighter pass-rushing unit.

mayoclinic said:

It's early, but I'm very encouraged by the potential versatility of Brown-Grissom-Wells in addition to the existing players. Wells is reportedly an ace STer, and a hybrid LB/S, and should fill the Jonathan Casillas role, and hopefully bump Chris White down the depth chart/off the roster. He has 4.43 speed at 223#, and Grissom seems like he could well be the #4 option at both DE and LB (not counting Easley as a DE): Jones-Ninovich-Sheard-Grissom at DE and Collins-Hightower-Mayo-Grissom at LB.

Right now I'm thinking of something like this:

DT (320#): Brown, Branch, Siliga
Hybrid DT/DE: Easley, Chris Jones, maybe Moore
EDGE (both DE and LB): Chandler Jones, Ninkovich, Sheard, Hightower, Collins, Grissom, Buchanan
Off LOS LB: Mayo, Wells

That's a pretty strong and versatile 15. Wells also figures into the back end as a LB/S hybrid.

That's ignoring Flowers and ****son, who could obviously have a role, but I'm less clear on how they fit as versatile hybrids. But competition will sort things out.

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Agree completely, especially with your last line, Belichick sounded like that exactly his intention, he has a boatbuilding of going defensive DE players who are going to have to fight it out to win the roster spots, and he was pretty clear what he expects from them to win those spots, get with the program or your gone.