Reiss expects Pats to be fined-deflategate? No farking way

TeamFirst said:

If the Patriots are found guilty in anyway even with a small fine, I think BB retires and says see ya to the NFL.

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1 - I think BB has too much love and respect for Kraft to leave him in a lurch like that. Plus I doubt he'd call it a career under such a cloud. It would totally change his legacy. But if the league thought 07 was a FU season from BB and the Pats, they ain't seen nuthin' yet.

For the NFL to fine the Patriots would establish guilt and basically call BB, TB, and Kraft liars.

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2 - I think if the league crafts it's statement very carefully if they fine us (i.e. "We were very thorough and we found absolutely no evidence of anything intentional. It's our opinion that it was weather related. However, the football(s) were out of compliance and that's still a violation, regardless of cause. Therefore the Pats are fined a token amount. If we had found anything intentional the penalty would have been much more severe.").

Goodell partially saves face without calling Kraft, BB and TB liars. Goodell could even apologize because he found nothing intentional and maybe even throw in some nice words about the Pats going above and beyond in cooperating fully at the most crucial time in their season. It won't be enough to shut up the trolls and conspiracy theorists, but sadly I don't think anything will shut them up.

As for Brady maybe he retires as well.

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See #1.

Can't see them remain in a league that has basically brandished the GOAT QB and GOAT coach as liars and cheaters.

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See #1 and #2.

rlcarr said:

First, why exactly can't they?

Second, "no other team that plays in the north" has ever had balls measured and been found underpressure during a game, either. Goodell can say (and it wouldn't even have to be a lie) that if another team's balls had been measured and found under that he'd have fined them, too.

The non-NE media (and most of the NE media) hates NE. Lots of the other owners hate NE (look at what Reiss said in his chat today, as quoted a bunch of posts ago). So what exactly is the downside for Goodell if he says "Rule says balls need to be X, no ifs, ands or buts. Balls were not-X. Rule was violated and you're fined $Z" ?

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What the hell has there never been another example of this have any bearing?

Your telling me that he is going to go on stage and tell the world that footballs played in Cinci last year in zero degree temps were at 12.5 psi, when the Columbia report is going to prove that they were under.

He has already said in a press conference that he has never been told that balls were under inflated before. You think after the Rice fiasco that they are going to try another cover up, how many reporters out there would love to be the guy to bring down a NFL commish, more than don't like BB I can tell you.

Blaming the spec is the easiest thing to do, and it is the right thing. How are the other owners going to blame him, he did not write the spec? They have a problem with the finding, let them hire thier own IVY league school and try to disprove the trial.

And read the rule, it says nothing about the home team being responsible for the balls being in spec The rule is that they supply playable balls and that the only people that can approve balls is the ref. It reads as the home team has to have ball boys on both sides of the field. page 10 of the pdf

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/2013 - Rule Book.pdf

And not all the owners hate the patriots, that is rubbish. I believe 20 teams don't care one way or the other like or hate. Are there 1/2 doz teams that do and 1/2 doz teams that like the pats.

Now I would agree that 90% of the media does not like BB, not a doubt. But there are Some Like Cowerd, Eisen, Boomer, Sims, Al Michaels, certainly do.

rlcarr said:

First, why exactly can't they?

Second, "no other team that plays in the north" has ever had balls measured and been found underpressure during a game, either. Goodell can say (and it wouldn't even have to be a lie) that if another team's balls had been measured and found under that he'd have fined them, too.

The non-NE media (and most of the NE media) hates NE. Lots of the other owners hate NE (look at what Reiss said in his chat today, as quoted a bunch of posts ago). So what exactly is the downside for Goodell if he says "Rule says balls need to be X, no ifs, ands or buts. Balls were not-X. Rule was violated and you're fined $Z" ?

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What the hell has there never been another example of this have any bearing?

Your telling me that he is going to go on stage and tell the world that footballs played in Cinci last year in zero degree temps were at 12.5 psi, when the Columbia report is going to prove that they were under.

He has already said in a press conference that he has never been told that balls were under inflated before. You think after the Rice fiasco that they are going to try another cover up, how many reporters out there would love to be the guy to bring down a NFL commish, more than don't like BB I can tell you.

Blaming the spec is the easiest thing to do, and it is the right thing. How are the other owners going to blame him, he did not write the spec? They have a problem with the finding, let them hire thier own IVY league school and try to disprove the trial.

And read the rule, it says nothing about the home team being responsible for the balls being in spec The rule is that they supply playable balls and that the only people that can approve balls is the ref. It reads as the home team has to have ball boys on both sides of the field. page 10 of the pdf

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/2013 - Rule Book.pdf

And not all the owners hate the patriots, that is rubbish. I believe 20 teams don't care one way or the other like or hate. Are there 1/2 doz teams that do and 1/2 doz teams that like the pats.

Now I would agree that 90% of the media does not like BB, not a doubt. But there are Some Like Cowerd, Eisen, Boomer, Sims, Al Michaels, certainly do.

patman52 said:

And read the rule, it says nothing about the home team being responsible for the balls being in spec

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The rule says the balls being used have to be 12.5-13.5 PSI. Ball(s) NE was using were less than that. Thus NE was in violation of the rule.

I don't think Goodell is going to say word one about footballs in Cinci or anywhere else. I think he is going to say something like "We performed a very, very thorough investigation. We did not find any evidence that NE tampered with the balls. However, balls NE was using were measured and found to be under the prescribed limits. Therefore we have fined NE $X for that rule violation."

If pressed on the weather I expect him to say something like "Our consultants tell us that weather could account for the pressure loss. However, it has always been the teams' responsibility to keep equipment within spec."

rlcarr said:

The rule says the balls being used have to be 12.5-13.5 PSI. Ball(s) NE was using were less than that. Thus NE was in violation of the rule.

I don't think Goodell is going to say word one about footballs in Cinci or anywhere else. I think he is going to say something like "We performed a very, very thorough investigation. We did not find any evidence that NE tampered with the balls. However, balls NE was using were measured and found to be under the prescribed limits. Therefore we have fined NE $X for that rule violation."

If pressed on the weather I expect him to say something like "Our consultants tell us that weather could account for the pressure loss. However, it has always been the teams' responsibility to keep equipment within spec."

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But it isn't. After they give the balls to the officials, it's /their/ responsibility.

rlcarr said:

The rule says the balls being used have to be 12.5-13.5 PSI. Ball(s) NE was using were less than that. Thus NE was in violation of the rule.

I don't think Goodell is going to say word one about footballs in Cinci or anywhere else. I think he is going to say something like "We performed a very, very thorough investigation. We did not find any evidence that NE tampered with the balls. However, balls NE was using were measured and found to be under the prescribed limits. Therefore we have fined NE $X for that rule violation."

If pressed on the weather I expect him to say something like "Our consultants tell us that weather could account for the pressure loss. However, it has always been the teams' responsibility to keep equipment within spec."

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The Patriots would have broken the ruler against tampering if they had tried to keep the balls in spec.

There's a reason the refs pumped up the balls. Because the Patriots are not allowed to.

What you are saying makes absolutely no sense.

rlcarr said:

The rule says the balls being used have to be 12.5-13.5 PSI. Ball(s) NE was using were less than that. Thus NE was in violation of the rule.

I don't think Goodell is going to say word one about footballs in Cinci or anywhere else. I think he is going to say something like "We performed a very, very thorough investigation. We did not find any evidence that NE tampered with the balls. However, balls NE was using were measured and found to be under the prescribed limits. Therefore we have fined NE $X for that rule violation."

If pressed on the weather I expect him to say something like "Our consultants tell us that weather could account for the pressure loss. However, it has always been the teams' responsibility to keep equipment within spec."

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The Patriots would have broken the ruler against tampering if they had tried to keep the balls in spec.

There's a reason the refs pumped up the balls. Because the Patriots are not allowed to.

What you are saying makes absolutely no sense.

rlcarr said:

The rule says the balls being used have to be 12.5-13.5 PSI. Ball(s) NE was using were less than that. Thus NE was in violation of the rule.

I don't think Goodell is going to say word one about footballs in Cinci or anywhere else. I think he is going to say something like "We performed a very, very thorough investigation. We did not find any evidence that NE tampered with the balls. However, balls NE was using were measured and found to be under the prescribed limits. Therefore we have fined NE $X for that rule violation."

If pressed on the weather I expect him to say something like "Our consultants tell us that weather could account for the pressure loss. However, it has always been the teams' responsibility to keep equipment within spec."

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The Patriots would have broken the ruler against tampering if they had tried to keep the balls in spec.

There's a reason the refs pumped up the balls. Because the Patriots are not allowed to.

What you are saying makes absolutely no sense.

rlcarr said:

The rule says the balls being used have to be 12.5-13.5 PSI. Ball(s) NE was using were less than that. Thus NE was in violation of the rule.

I don't think Goodell is going to say word one about footballs in Cinci or anywhere else. I think he is going to say something like "We performed a very, very thorough investigation. We did not find any evidence that NE tampered with the balls. However, balls NE was using were measured and found to be under the prescribed limits. Therefore we have fined NE $X for that rule violation."

If pressed on the weather I expect him to say something like "Our consultants tell us that weather could account for the pressure loss. However, it has always been the teams' responsibility to keep equipment within spec."

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The Patriots would have broken the ruler against tampering if they had tried to keep the balls in spec.

There's a reason the refs pumped up the balls. Because the Patriots are not allowed to.

What you are saying makes absolutely no sense.

Chiuba E. Obele said:

I think no matter what, the NFL wants to come across as being "fair" and "tough", and if the evidence shows that no deliberate tampering occurred, then I can still see a response that involves a fine or a penalty, .

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So, a ruling that's unfair and cowardly would accomplish that?

rlcarr said:

The rule says the balls being used have to be 12.5-13.5 PSI. Ball(s) NE was using were less than that. Thus NE was in violation of the rule.

I don't think Goodell is going to say word one about footballs in Cinci or anywhere else. I think he is going to say something like "We performed a very, very thorough investigation. We did not find any evidence that NE tampered with the balls. However, balls NE was using were measured and found to be under the prescribed limits. Therefore we have fined NE $X for that rule violation."

If pressed on the weather I expect him to say something like "Our consultants tell us that weather could account for the pressure loss. However, it has always been the teams' responsibility to keep equipment within spec."

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This is completely absurd.

upstater1 said:

The Patriots would have broken the ruler against tampering if they had tried to keep the balls in spec.

There's a reason the refs pumped up the balls. Because the Patriots are not allowed to.

What you are saying makes absolutely no sense.

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Yep, that is as batsh.t crazy as it gets.

flasox27 said:

Let me direct this to those who scoffed at my predictions in the deflategate thread and placed their faith in the wrath and power of Kraft to make Goodell do the right thing. While the final verdict hasn't be made public yet all the directions are pointing at a fine for the deflated balls and minimal punishment for the Jets for tampering. IMO, Kraft already knows and has accepted the judgement of Goodell as shown by his support of the POS. I still think that Kraft as a shrewd businessman values his membership in the fraternity of owners more than the support of his fan base and only exhibited support of BB and Brady to placate them not out of any desire to take on Goodell. Like it or not it is immaterial to the reputation of the Pats whether or not the League apologizes. The damage was done in 2007 when Kraft failed to support BB and allowed the great trashing of the Pats without response. I believe there is nothing Goodell can say or do that will really shake Kraft's loyalty to him as long as the money comes in.

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I agree with much of what you say, but not everything.

I've posted out here many times that the Pats were far too passive in 2007/08, so I agree with your assessment of his reaction at that time. And, yes, the damage was done back then and, in many ways, it is irreparable until the passage of time allows it to fade into memory.

I also think that Kraft's desire to make a lot of money is as great as his desire to field a great team, so, yes, he basically supports Goodell because he has kept the cash flowing. On the other hand, he is the only owner to openly challenge Goodell in a substantive manner in recent years and there was no mistaking the hostility he showed him when he accepted the Lombardi, but I imagine that he feels he has made his point and gone as far as he can go and will now step back in line, having made his point.

But, I think he was genuinely angry when he made his remarks in Phoenix. Perhaps he felt that the way the League was handling it was unfair or perhaps he was finally concerned that his brand was being damaged in a way that might ultimately cost him, but I don't think he was doing it to "placate" anyone.

RayClay said:

So, a ruling that's unfair and cowardly would accomplish that?

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Yes it would.....it's New England against the world baby, and unfortunately, when you're going up against fanbases and pundits from around the country, you're going to have to occasionally eat s**t. That's part of being an under-dog. But I really hope I'm wrong though, cause you're right, it's completely undeserved.

If we do get fined for something minor (and are still accused of being cheaters by everyone else) the Pats will just have to prove everyone wrong by winning on the field.

Belichick might be willing to take sh*t from the NFL (he's done it before), but he will NEVER have his integrity questioned without there being consequences. There's nothing more dangerous when this man goes on a mission. You remember the last time he got fined for Spygate? That's when we proceeded to beat the living crap out of 18 teams LOL

It will be beyond maddening if the NFL fines the Patriots for using under inflated balls while admitting that the weather was most likely the cause of the under inflation.

There is no rule that the footballs have to be of a certain psi throughout the game, only that they have to be of a certain psi at the start of a game.

In fact, the only rule regarding this is that a team CANT change the psi of a football after the game had started.

So how can do you possibly fine a team for breaking a non existent rule?

Besides, what happens when all footballs that are at the max pressure at the start of a -13 degree game in Green Bay are under inflated at the end of the game? Is there an automatic fine for both teams?

If the Patriots broke a rule, punish them. But don't punish them 'just because'

MitchKumstein said:

There is no rule that the footballs have to be of a certain psi throughout the game, only that they have to be of a certain psi at the start of a game.

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Incorrect. Rule 2 Section 1 says the balls need to be 12.5-13.5 PSI. It has no "only at the moment the balls are checked-in" language. Further, the NFL's statement on 23 Jan makes it clear that the NFL views Rule 2 Section 1 as applying throughout the game.

MitchKumstein said:

It will be beyond maddening if the NFL fines the Patriots for using under inflated balls while admitting that the weather was most likely the cause of the under inflation.

There is no rule that the footballs have to be of a certain psi throughout the game, only that they have to be of a certain psi at the start of a game.

In fact, the only rule regarding this is that a team CANT change the psi of a football after the game had started.

So how can do you possibly fine a team for breaking a non existent rule?

Besides, what happens when all footballs that are at the max pressure at the start of a -13 degree game in Green Bay are under inflated at the end of the game? Is there an automatic fine for both teams?

If the Patriots broke a rule, punish them. But don't punish them 'just because'

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Do you know hot idiotic the NFL would look after pouring millions of dollars into an investigation, and to come out with nothing? Maybe the Patriots will be exonerated, I don't know. But one thing I do know, is that someone is going to get either fired or fined. It remains to be seen who that person/organization will be, and why. Call it unfair. Call it cowardly. But that's politics.

rlcarr said:

The rule says the balls being used have to be 12.5-13.5 PSI. Ball(s) NE was using were less than that. Thus NE was in violation of the rule.

I don't think Goodell is going to say word one about footballs in Cinci or anywhere else. I think he is going to say something like "We performed a very, very thorough investigation. We did not find any evidence that NE tampered with the balls. However, balls NE was using were measured and found to be under the prescribed limits. Therefore we have fined NE $X for that rule violation."

If pressed on the weather I expect him to say something like "Our consultants tell us that weather could account for the pressure loss. However, it has always been the teams' responsibility to keep equipment within spec."

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No where does it say it is the team responsibility to keep equipment in spec, I provided a link to the rule and it says nothing of the sort. It says that the home team has to provide someone to pass playable balls to the ref. But only the refs determine if the balls are playable.

I don't believe you think that the commissioner is going to fine a team if it is found that the nfl spec on footballs is unreasonable. All that would do is bring out the haters saying there has to be another reason they got fined if the leagues spec was also wrong,

upstater1 said:

The Patriots would have broken the ruler against tampering if they had tried to keep the balls in spec.

There's a reason the refs pumped up the balls. Because the Patriots are not allowed to.

What you are saying makes absolutely no sense.

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Could you post that again?!

rlcarr said:

The rule says the balls being used have to be 12.5-13.5 PSI. Ball(s) NE was using were less than that. Thus NE was in violation of the rule.

I don't think Goodell is going to say word one about footballs in Cinci or anywhere else. I think he is going to say something like "We performed a very, very thorough investigation. We did not find any evidence that NE tampered with the balls. However, balls NE was using were measured and found to be under the prescribed limits. Therefore we have fined NE $X for that rule violation."

If pressed on the weather I expect him to say something like "Our consultants tell us that weather could account for the pressure loss. However, it has always been the teams' responsibility to keep equipment within spec."

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And it is the refs responsibility to verify the balls are within spec and then take possession of them. You're way to smart to surmise that it is the team's responsibility to keep the balls in spec when they are in the ref's possession.