Sign the Beasts LVIII -- Anyone Have a Binky in the Veteran Combine?

meatface said:

dude just call yourself a bigot and be done with it, stop trying to act like your something else or justify it as a "distraction". You don't want him to keep his personal life to himself you want him to lie, when a reporter asks him if he was gay you want him to say "no", there are players who are gay and they deserve the right to be honest because quite frankly being gay isn't that big of a deal, but all these players just saw Sam get blackballed because of his sexuality. Like it or not players have personal lives and they have every right to enjoy them, but people like you think its a bigger distraction that Sam is dating man than someone like Greg hardy beats his wife and then paid her off to get the charges dropped. If this was 1959 I think you would be one of the people trying to justify why your team ignored talented black players because having one would be a "distraction".

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The problem with you is that it's no one's business if Sam is gay or not. So a reporter asking it is out of line to begin with. Only scum think that they are entitled to know someone else's sexual preferences.

The correct answer would have been "My sexuality is no one's business but my own." And that goes for the entire GLBT community..

DaBruinz said:

I find it insulting that you compare the situation of Michael Sam to the situation of Jackie Robinson. They couldn't be more different. Jackie Robinson had already been playing ball in the Negro leagues and people knew of him. He was approached to join MLB. Robinson didn't go out and demand the media attention. He did interviews that were requested of him.. Nothing more.. Robinson didn't deals done with programs ahead of time without the consent of the team that he'd be joining..

The Dodgers created the media storm by bringing Jackie Robinson to the team.. Sam was bringing the media storm with him to the Rams.. Pretty distinct difference.

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I'll be fair to your argument here, but I think the differences lie in the larger environment than in the particulars of media attention. Imagine if the 24/7 sports news cycle existed in 1948.

Rather, general acceptance of homosexuality has skyrocketed since the 1990s in a way very unlike racial attitudes. Take a look at this image, for instance:



Robinson was entering the MLB in the middle of Jim Crow - in fact, about two decades before Jim Crow really "ended" in the Civil Rights era.

The equivalent of Jim Crow for LGBT people is effectively over. That's not to say LGBT people don't face continuing discrimination (and transgender people stand out as different from the LGB part of in this fact), because they do. You can see it in this thread. But by the time Sam was drafted, there was an openly gay NBA player and an openly gay MLS player, and a substantial part (likely a majority) of the media and powers-that-be in the NFL world at least made welcoming comments if not actions about an openly gay player in the NFL. It's not Jim Crow.

So I agree with you insofar that Sam is less monumental than Robinson, though I wouldn't call the comparisons insulting. Sam is still an important figure for many young LGBT athletes, and LGBT people in general. There had to be a first for there to be more, and this was never not going to be anything but a political act. It had to be by its nature.

DaBruinz said:

Could you provide a link to this?

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http://www.si.com/football/2014/02/09/michael-sam-draft-stock

primetime said:

Your treatment of him is unfair. You say he should have kept his sexuality a secret - even though it would have eventually come out and become a media story for precisely the reason you are showing, and even though being in the closet is extremely deleterious to mental and emotional health and well-being - while you give implicit free rides to straight players like Tom Brady or Vince Wilfork whose heterosexual personal lives are also in our face. I don't have a problem with this, by the way. I think showing love and affection in public to someone else, regardless of gender, is cool.

You're being heteronormative - that is, you're holding gay people to a different set of standards than straight people. And, despite what you think, being openly gay in the NFL is a big deal. It's not Jackie Robinson in baseball, but it is something that has never happened before. This is why the media flocked to Michael Sam, regardless of whether he wanted it or not.

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This is just pure ignorance on your part.. The only people holding gays to different standards are people like YOURSELF. You think that their sex life IS your concern. It's not. Neither is Tom Brady's or Vince Wilforks.

It's not my business what goes on in his bedroom and it's not yours. Sam CHOSE to make it our business by insisting on making the announcement. By going out and setting up TV deals that would affect whatever team chose him. By making it about him and the GLBT community..

DaBruinz said:

The problem with you is that it's no one's business if Sam is gay or not. So a reporter asking it is out of line to begin with. Only scum think that they are entitled to know someone else's sexual preferences.

The correct answer would have been "My sexuality is no one's business but my own." And that goes for the entire GLBT community..

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It would have come up unless he hid it. Basically, unless he stayed closeted (which is bad), there was no way for it not to come out, and for it not to become a major media story because he would have been the first openly gay NFL player regardless of whether he held a press conference about it or not. I don't know why this is so hard for people to grasp other than due to cognitive dissonance.

Do you get mad every time you read a Joker post with a joke about his ex-wife, since he's telling you his sexual preferences? (I mean, presumably, I don't claim to know Joker's full sexual preferences). Or is it only when an LGBT person is open about being LGBT?

DaBruinz said:

This is just pure ignorance on your part.. The only people holding gays to different standards are people like YOURSELF. You think that their sex life IS your concern. It's not. Neither is Tom Brady's or Vince Wilforks.

It's not my business what goes on in his bedroom and it's not yours. Sam CHOSE to make it our business by insisting on making the announcement. By going out and setting up TV deals that would affect whatever team chose him. By making it about him and the GLBT community..

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Again, he was going to be the first openly gay player in the NFL, and that was going to come out - unless he hid it, which would be holding him to a different standard than Brady or Wilfork. Coming out in 2015 remains a political act by its very nature. Especially when the person coming out is unquestionably going to be on a national stage.

meatface said:

We get it you're a bigot too, can you guys go revel in your bigotry somewhere else? This started as a thread about people we liked in the Veteran Combine.

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You are the one who turned it the thread into being about Sam and his sexuality. Including making your erroneous and insulting comparison to Jackie Robinson.

letekro said:

How do you know there was a "significant issue"? Because the fat and slow guys claim they ran faster with their trainers holding the stopwatch? One guy complaining (carlton mitchell) ran a 4.49 at the 2010 combine and ran a 4.61 yesterday--5 years later. That sounds more reasonable than the 4.3s he was claiming.

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Actually, there were numerous reports that the electronic timers were .1 -.2 seconds slower than the hand stop watches..

DaBruinz said:

The problem with you is that it's no one's business if Sam is gay or not. So a reporter asking it is out of line to begin with. Only scum think that they are entitled to know someone else's sexual preferences.

The correct answer would have been "My sexuality is no one's business but my own." And that goes for the entire GLBT community..

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But it would have been okay to say "I'm straight", of course.

primetime said:

It would have come up unless he hid it. Basically, unless he stayed closeted (which is bad), there was no way for it not to come out, and for it not to become a major media story because he would have been the first openly gay NFL player regardless of whether he held a press conference about it or not. I don't know why this is so hard for people to grasp other than due to cognitive dissonance.

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BS it would have come up. That's your ignorance talking. And, as stated, the correct answer would have been "I'm sorry but my sexuality is none of your business". No one was out there asking Tom Brady or Vince Wilfork who they liked to have sex with.. So why would they ask Sam? They wouldn't.

primetime said:

Do you get mad every time you read a Joker post with a joke about his ex-wife, since he's telling you his sexual preferences? (I mean, presumably, I don't claim to know Joker's full sexual preferences). Or is it only when an LGBT person is open about being LGBT?

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Ahh.. The worthless strawman arguments start to come out.. That's the sign that the person has lost the argument and can't be bothered to stay on track.
1) I'm not mad or angry.
2) I don't listen to joker talk about his ex-wife.
3) Joker is not about to be drafted by an NFL football team..
4) Another person's sexual preference isn't my business unless they decide to throw it in my face. Ala Michael Sam..

primetime said:

Again, he was going to be the first openly gay player in the NFL, and that was going to come out - unless he hid it, which would be holding him to a different standard than Brady or Wilfork. Coming out in 2015 remains a political act by its very nature. Especially when the person coming out is unquestionably going to be on a national stage.

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Why do members of the GLBT community have to make it everyone else's business who they are sleeping with? Why should anyone else care? If you want acceptance, you need to stop rubbing it in other people's faces that you should be treated differently.

The fact of the matter is that Michael Sam chose to make his situation about Michael Sam's bedroom proclivities and not about Michael Sam the football player. The only people who care whether or not he's gay are those who insist on being bigots and those insist that they should be treated differently because of who/what they are..

Those are concepts you clearly don't understand.

Elijah said:

But it would have been okay to say "I'm straight", of course.

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No.. The correct answer is what I stated. Nice try.. Now leave the conversation before you make yourself look even more foolish.

BTW, since you can't figure it out, it's the QUESTION that is offensive, not the answer..

DaBruinz said:

BS it would have come up. That's your ignorance talking. And, as stated, the correct answer would have been "I'm sorry but my sexuality is none of your business". No one was out there asking Tom Brady or Vince Wilfork who they liked to have sex with.. So why would they ask Sam? They wouldn't.

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Since the rest of your screed follows from this, let me just be clear: we all know Tom Brady and Vince Wilfork's sexual preferences because they display those preferences in public.

The difference between Brady posting a picture on social media of himself kissing his wife and Michael Sam posting a picture of himself kissing his husband on social media is that the latter is inherently political because of attitudes like yours. It would have come out because, unless he chose to hide it, his teammates would have known or someone would have seen it on Instagram. Moreover, Sam had previously come out to his Mizzou teammates; he knew NFL teams and the media would catch wind, and in fact this was the stated reason he came out publicly.

Had he not, that 24/7 sports media then would have found out, taken it, and run with it: Extra, extra, read all about it! Rams draft pick Michael Sam is gay! If you don't think the media would have made a big deal out of this, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

Heterosexual people face no such scrutiny. Tom Brady being straight is not and never will be a story. He can post pictures of himself and his wife, hold his wife's hand in public, and tell his teammates about his plans with his wife because he is held to a different standard than Michael Sam, and you are displaying exactly what that standard is.

Sexuality is by its nature social and can therefore really never be private unless you make an effort to hide it, which is called being in the closet and is extraordinarily deleterious to mental and emotional health and well-being. If you think sexuality can should be totally private, I hope you live it: never talk about any spouses, in-laws, and when a colleague talks about their personal life you turn away and put your hands over your ears.

edit: I don't think anything more productive is going to come out of this, so I'm removing myself from the thread.

DaBruinz said:

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Why do members of the GLBT community have to make it everyone else's business who they are sleeping with? Why should anyone else care? If you want acceptance, you need to stop rubbing it in other people's faces that you should be treated differently.

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I agree with almost all your comments on this subject.

However, I don't think it unreasonable for Sam (and the community) to want to point out that he was the first openly gay player in the NFL. iMHO, Sam openly accepted this role, granting many interviews and eventually a spot on Dancing With The Stars. The acceptance of gays in US society has changed dramatically in the past 15 years. Sam's focusing on this issue will help put the issue to rest for other players, now and in the future.

Coming out publicly puts a spotlight on the issue. NFL teams decided to respond with policies and statements regarding the subject, much as the LGBT community might have wanted. For most teams (and perhaps most posters), this issue is behind us, at least regarding the NFL

So, I think that Sam helped the cause of rights for gays in the NFL. However, I don't think that he helped his chances of playing in the NFL. Consider his currently spending time and focus with Dancing With The Stars instead of doing all he can to convince teams that he should be in their 2015 camps. Is this the action of a player who puts football above other non-family interests? Is the action of someone really hungry to compete in the NFL?

DaBruinz said:

This is just pure ignorance on your part.. The only people holding gays to different standards are people like YOURSELF. You think that their sex life IS your concern. It's not. Neither is Tom Brady's or Vince Wilforks.

It's not my business what goes on in his bedroom and it's not yours. Sam CHOSE to make it our business by insisting on making the announcement. By going out and setting up TV deals that would affect whatever team chose him. By making it about him and the GLBT community..

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What am I missing here?
If its his business how can you complain about what you felt was best for him?

captain stone said:

Because a Husband is a Man who is married to a Woman.

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What? No it isn't. A husband is a married man.

mgteich said:

fair enough

I thought that Sam chose to give the media and various advocacy organizations an opportunity to "celebrate" this important step in sports history, and yes that sexual preference should no longer be relevant in choosing football players for the NFL. Over the years, many people in various professions have chosen to do the same. Ellen Degeneris stands out in my memory. As was the case in various civil rights situations that I have followed in the past 50 years, individuals sometimes choose when to come out to the media as a strategy to spotlight the issue of discrimination.

I cannot speak for your thinking that my choice of words was "ignorant, archaic and insulting". Your perceptions are your own. I don't find civil right advocacy and strategies used to be any of these things. You seem to think that Sam did not choose to have the media focus on this very important step in NFL history. I think that you are incorrect. However, there is no way for us to resolve this issue.

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My issue is with people thinking they have a right to judge how he expresses himself, because he is gay.
Straight players are seen all the time with wives or girlfriends. They discuss their wives and girlfriends publicly at times.
The fact that the media or the twitterverse wants to cling to Sam as a celebrity is not Sam's fault.
Comments such as 'celebrating his sexuality' imply that he is taking advantage of flaunting something he has no right to.
There was a time when interracial marriage was thought of as immoral. If an NFL player had an interracial girlfriend or wife, and kissed her when he was drafted, and then the media wanted to turn him into a celebrity as the first interracially married athlete, would you chastise him for 'celebrating his race'?
It is insensitive to treat gay people as they are nothing more than gay. Who really cares that he is on Dancing with Stars. Its the off-season, but he is gay, so that's a 'gay thing to do' so it gets criticism. Gay people are people. They do smart things and stupid things. some want attention, others do not.
To try to say that you can decide for the first openly gay football player how he should have handled the situation, including that he should have just not said anything is wrong. Many gay teens hide their orientation from their family out of fear that they will not be accepted. You simply cannot walk in the shoes of Michael Sam and have any idea what the issues he was facing are.
In the end he did nothing detrimental to his team. No more than Tom Brady did by drawing attention by who he dated.
I understand where you are coming from, but people need to realize they are talking about someone dealing with an issue that is probably more stressful than anything we have ever dealt with, and not belittle that with comments like 'celebrating his sexuality'.

DaBruinz said:

Why do members of the GLBT community have to make it everyone else's business who they are sleeping with? Why should anyone else care? If you want acceptance, you need to stop rubbing it in other people's faces that you should be treated differently.

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This has to be the most ignorant statement that you, the most ignorant poster on this board has ever uttered.

So you as a homophobe, are offended by gay people being gay.
You ask why anyone should care, yet you are hear typing dozens of posts about it.
You decided to post pictures of your wedding on this site. Why would you go around rubbing who you are sleeping with in everyone's face? I don't know why you think anyone cares.

They are not asking to be treated differently, they are asking to be treated the same.

The fact of the matter is that Michael Sam chose to make his situation about Michael Sam's bedroom proclivities and not about Michael Sam the football player.

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When you posted your wedding pictures, were you making it about your bedroom proclivities? I mean, you went out and blatantly announced you are straight. How dare you make it about your sexual proclivities and not your posts.

Gay is not about sexual acts, it is about a lifestyle. You appear to think that the best think for Michael Sam to do would have been to hide who he is. Under no circumstances tell people that you are dating a man, that is something no one wants to know. Stay in the closet, hide who you are. That theory has led to thousands of suicides in this country. Nice plan.

The only people who care whether or not he's gay are those who insist on being bigots and those insist that they should be treated differently because of who/what they are..

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So which are you, because you seem to care a lot. Gay is part of who he is. It should matter no more than black or white, Catholic or Jewish, man or woman. You see him a gay, and nothing else, which is horrendously bigoted.

Those are concepts you clearly don't understand.

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Pot meet kettle.

I read several reports that Sam had a terrible day. He was slow and appeared to be a little out of shape. A couple reports said that his attitude was not good. I would post links but not sure how to do that.

AndyJohnson said:

My issue is with people thinking they have a right to judge how he expresses himself, because he is gay.
Straight players are seen all the time with wives or girlfriends. They discuss their wives and girlfriends publicly at times.
The fact that the media or the twitterverse wants to cling to Sam as a celebrity is not Sam's fault.
Comments such as 'celebrating his sexuality' imply that he is taking advantage of flaunting something he has no right to.
There was a time when interracial marriage was thought of as immoral. If an NFL player had an interracial girlfriend or wife, and kissed her when he was drafted, and then the media wanted to turn him into a celebrity as the first interracially married athlete, would you chastise him for 'celebrating his race'?
It is insensitive to treat gay people as they are nothing more than gay. Who really cares that he is on Dancing with Stars. Its the off-season, but he is gay, so that's a 'gay thing to do' so it gets criticism. Gay people are people. They do smart things and stupid things. some want attention, others do not.
To try to say that you can decide for the first openly gay football player how he should have handled the situation, including that he should have just not said anything is wrong. Many gay teens hide their orientation from their family out of fear that they will not be accepted. You simply cannot walk in the shoes of Michael Sam and have any idea what the issues he was facing are.
In the end he did nothing detrimental to his team. No more than Tom Brady did by drawing attention by who he dated.
I understand where you are coming from, but people need to realize they are talking about someone dealing with an issue that is probably more stressful than anything we have ever dealt with, and not belittle that with comments like 'celebrating his sexuality'.

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CLARIFICATIONS
Sam has every right to spotlight the need for rights for gays, and to "celebrate" his being the first openly gay NFL player. And I have no special right to suggest how Sam should act publicly because he is gay.

You ask who cares about Dancing With Stars. If I were a NFL GM, I might. In choosing to take flyers on players for camp, I MIGHT want players who had their focus on football, and who were spending almost all their non-family time trying to become the best NFL player they can be. PERSONALLY, I think a second year player looking for an invitation to camp would be better served by focusing on upgrading football skills. I agree that it is insensitive to treat gay people as if they are nothing but gay. And just WHY do you think that Sam is appearing on Dancing With The Stars? The show wants him BECAUSE he is a gay athlete. Why is Sam agreeing to participate. Surely, he is there because of his sexuality. BTW, the show often has athletes, ALL major successes in their fields. The reason for their choice is clear. And, as an aside, I do not criticize Sam for accepting. He has every right to make a living, even if he is paid for no other reason than his sexual choice.

mgteich said:

CLARIFICATIONS
Sam has every right to spotlight the need for rights for gays, and to "celebrate" his being the first openly gay NFL player. And I have no special right to suggest how Sam should act publicly because he is gay.

You ask who cares about Dancing With Stars. If I were a NFL GM, I might. In choosing to take flyers on players for camp, I MIGHT want players who had their focus on football, and who were spending almost all their non-family time trying to become the best NFL player they can be. PERSONALLY, I think a second year player looking for an invitation to camp would be better served by focusing on upgrading football skills. I agree that it is insensitive to treat gay people as if they are nothing but gay. And just WHY do you think that Sam is appearing on Dancing With The Stars? The show wants him BECAUSE he is a gay athlete. Why is Sam agreeing to participate. Surely, he is there because of his sexuality. BTW, the show often has athletes, ALL major successes in their fields. The reason for their choice is clear. And, as an aside, I do not criticize Sam for accepting. He has every right to make a living, even if he is paid for no other reason than his sexual choice.

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I don't think street free agents are spending 24/7 working out or that participating in Dancing with the Stars prevents him from preparing for a football season.
This is where the line blurs. To justify a compliant about him being in the spotlight, not all of a sudden it means he isnt' serious about football. Most players that do not have contracts have full time jobs.

DaBruinz said:

The problem with you is that it's no one's business if Sam is gay or not. So a reporter asking it is out of line to begin with. Only scum think that they are entitled to know someone else's sexual preferences.

The correct answer would have been "My sexuality is no one's business but my own." And that goes for the entire GLBT community..

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im sure you think players showing up with their wives to events or gronk talking about all the girls hes been with is equally horrible. Again we get it you are an ******* and a bigot, congrats, I merely pointed out that its wrong to make someone live a lie and you are saying that Sam has no right to be an openly homosexual man.