Defensive Front Seven - A Strength?

I'm concerned about our run defense. Not losing VW. He played 70pct of our snaps and made 28 tackles with 23. He was strong at the POA. But, not agile or long enough to finish plays. History tells us BB will address DL early if worried. Or, trade. Traylor, Ted Wadhington, Haynesworth. Our DE's have to play the run better too.

Stopping the run is more of an attribute of team defense than it is any one particular player. I think we were bad against the run early on because our front 7 wasn't playing together very well, especially once Mayo went down. After Hightower and Collins settled into their roles a bit more things got better. Particularly Collins. He was taking on some stupid blocks early in the year.

mayoclinic said:

I think this is very important. If the Pats can stop the run effectively while playing in sub, it will be quite a feat.

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Especially when you consider the step back we took at corner. If we can play nickel we can give more help to corners.

patsfaninpa said:

I'm concerned about our run defense. Not losing VW. He played 70pct of our snaps and made 28 tackles with 23. He was strong at the POA. But, not agile or long enough to finish plays. History tells us BB will address DL early if worried. Or, trade. Traylor, Ted Wadhington, Haynesworth. Our DE's have to play the run better too.

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Again, how can we be unhappy with 79 rush yards and less than 3.3 a carry and 2 rushing TDs over the second half of the season? Why are we concerned about a tremendous strength?

AndyJohnson said:

Again, how can we be unhappy with 79 rush yards and less than 3.3 a carry and 2 rushing TDs over the second half of the season? Why are we concerned about a tremendous strength?

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You seem to think that losing Wilfork will make little difference.

mgteich said:

You seem to think that losing Wilfork will make little difference.

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It may or may not. I addressed this earlier with the questions I would have. I think Siliga and Branch along with Easley are very capable. Certainly not a weakness that we would need to use a first round pick to augment.
Are you still of the opinion that the run D that was second best in the NFL for the 2nd half of the season was a 'major weakness'?

AndyJohnson said:

Again, how can we be unhappy with 79 rush yards and less than 3.3 a carry and 2 rushing TDs over the second half of the season? Why are we concerned about a tremendous strength?

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It faltered at a couple of key moments. The Baltimore game. And, was just ok in the Super Bowl. Also, too many teams abandon the run game when we get ahead. Teams who stick to the run and keep the game close had success. Especially, the Jets over the last couple of years. We were 3-1 against them. But, all 3 wins were in extremely tight games. Buffalo with McCoy concerns me now. An upgrade over Spiller. I

AndyJohnson said:

It may or may not. I addressed this earlier with the questions I would have. I think Siliga and Branch along with Easley are very capable. Certainly not a weakness that we would need to use a first round pick to augment.
Are you still of the opinion that the run D that was second best in the NFL for the 2nd half of the season was a 'major weakness'?

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If the 2nd best run defense in the second half were returning, then this would not be a major weakness, just a short yardage concern. However, Wilfork is gone. Are you really considering Easley as a reasonable replacement in the RUN game?

BTW, I do believe that if Mayo is healthy, our run defense will be fine. I too have confidence in Branch and Siliga, as long as Mayo is there.

With regard to the draft, I prefer drafting a corner with our first pick. Obviously, Belichick will judge the value available at various positions, including CB, OG and DT. I would not even be shocked to see us drafting a RB or LB, although I think it unlikely.

mgteich said:

If the 2nd best run defense in the second half were returning, then this would not be a major weakness, just a short yardage concern. However, Wilfork is gone. Are you really considering Easley as a reasonable replacement in the RUN game?

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But you said it was a major weakness LAST YEAR.
No, I did not say Easley was a run defending guy, if you read my comments.
I expect Siliga and Branch to play the majority of the early downs. I think anything from Easley on early downs is a bonus.

BTW, I do believe that if Mayo is healthy, our run defense will be fine. I too have confidence in Branch and Siliga, as long as Mayo is there.

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It was fine without Mayo. Since we play nickel 75% of the time, I don't know that the 3rd LB makes an enormous difference, and HT and Collins did well when he was out.

With regard to the draft, I prefer drafting a corner with our first pick. Obviously, Belichick will judge the value available at various positions, including CB, OG and DT. I would not even be shocked to see us drafting a RB or LB, although I think it unlikely.

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As we all should now know, BB doesn't draft based on what the roster for the first game of the coming season is. Every year he drafts a spot people didn't expect, and then it becomes clear later, based upon contract situations, etc, why he did it.

VrabelJr said:

Stopping the run is more of an attribute of team defense than it is any one particular player. I think we were bad against the run early on because our front 7 wasn't playing together very well, especially once Mayo went down. After Hightower and Collins settled into their roles a bit more things got better. Particularly Collins. He was taking on some stupid blocks early in the year.

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I think this is a very astute statement. We've seen dominant run defenses without massive run defenders, and we've seen guys who were drafted as 3-techs like Glenn Dorsey do very well as penetrating NTs. There are a lot of ways to build a good run defense, and it's generally a function of cohesion more than 1 guy.

mayoclinic said:

I think this is a very astute statement. We've seen dominant run defenses without massive run defenders, and we've seen guys who were drafted as 3-techs like Glenn Dorsey do very well as penetrating NTs. There are a lot of ways to build a good run defense, and it's generally a function of cohesion more than 1 guy.

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Agreed.

However, many posters are saying that we had a great run defense in 2014 and that it will be continue to be great, without any DT additions, even with the lass of Wilfork.

So, yes, the patriots can find a way to succeed with the loss of one their key defensive tackles, without replacement.

BTW, I would note that just two weeks ago, folks thought it critical that the patriots sign a top DT, Wilfork or one of the other top DT's, whether we re-signed Branch or not. Now, with the additional knowledge of two weeks, the loss of Wilfork is just not that important. Two weeks ago, the drafting of a top DT (in the first couple of rounds) was critical, whether we re-signed Wilfork or not. Now, the drafting of a DT is much less important for many here.

mgteich said:

Agreed.

However, many posters are saying that we had a great run defense in 2014 and that it will be continue to be great, without any DT additions, even with the lass of Wilfork.

So, yes, the patriots can find a way to succeed with the loss of one their key defensive tackles, without replacement.

BTW, I would note that just two weeks ago, folks thought it critical that the patriots sign a top DT, Wilfork or one of the other top DT's, whether we re-signed Branch or not. Now, with the additional knowledge of two weeks, the loss of Wilfork is just not that important. Two weeks ago, the drafting of a top DT (in the first couple of rounds) was critical, whether we re-signed Wilfork or not. Now, the drafting of a DT is much less important for many here.

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I can't speak for others. Personally, on the draft board, my DT priority is the same that it was before FA and the loss of Wilfork. I had assumed that Wilfork would likely be gone, or at the very least that 2015 would be his last season. I also didn't see any Wilfork's out there, and most of the late 1st round potential DTs are limited. I think that a different kind of player may be more likely to succeed with the direction in which the defense seems to be evolving.

mgteich said:

Agreed.

However, many posters are saying that we had a great run defense in 2014 and that it will be continue to be great, without any DT additions, even with the lass of Wilfork.

So, yes, the patriots can find a way to succeed with the loss of one their key defensive tackles, without replacement.

BTW, I would note that just two weeks ago, folks thought it critical that the patriots sign a top DT, Wilfork or one of the other top DT's, whether we re-signed Branch or not. Now, with the additional knowledge of two weeks, the loss of Wilfork is just not that important. Two weeks ago, the drafting of a top DT (in the first couple of rounds) was critical, whether we re-signed Wilfork or not. Now, the drafting of a DT is much less important for many here.

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Opinions didn't change, the people who's opinions you discussing changed.
Two weeks ago people told you one thing, today DIFFERENT PEOPLE are saying something else.
Each group has not changed its opinion.

ashley1992 said:

Anyone who thinks our run defense was great last year should pull out the Raven playoff game where Forsett ran crazy against us. I also think of the Jet game as well.
With us losing our best DT and all our returning guys coming off injuries, I think the DT position is one where we need to address early.

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That's a good point. Run D wasn't bad second half of the year, but it was rough in that game. However, Lynch was mostly contained in the Super Bowl. So I would say it was overall "average", and could use a bit of improvement to ensure depth come playoff time.

NG Pats Fan said:

Agreed. Plenty of good DT pass rushers in the draft. pm me

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The real mystery that needs solving is this - why does everyone always want Ashley to pm them???

Ross12 said:

That's a good point. Run D wasn't bad second half of the year, but it was rough in that game. However, Lynch was mostly contained in the Super Bowl. So I would say it was overall "average", and could use a bit of improvement to ensure depth come playoff time.

The real mystery that needs solving is this - why does everyone always want Ashley to pm them???

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The run D in the second half of the season was possible the best 8 game stretch of BBs career here.
How can you call 79 ypg and 3.3 ypc and 2 TDs in 8 games 'average'? I don't understand that.

AndyJohnson said:

The run D in the second half of the season was possible the best 8 game stretch of BBs career here.
How can you call 79 ypg and 3.3 ypc and 2 TDs in 8 games 'average'? I don't understand that.

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Fans have strange expectations these days.

AndyJohnson said:

The run D in the second half of the season was possible the best 8 game stretch of BBs career here.
How can you call 79 ypg and 3.3 ypc and 2 TDs in 8 games 'average'? I don't understand that.

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I don't deny that it was a great stretch; I'm just agreeing with Ashley that maybe it was exposed a bit against Baltimore. I think that the line is plenty good for the regular season, but to stop the run in the postseason, we should add more depth. Maybe "average" was an understatement on my part.

Hi Ross, I think sometimes stats can be a little misleading, if you look at our schedule last year our last 8 games were against:

-Broncos(we blew them out so they didn't try to run the ball )
-Indy(we blew them out so they didn't try to run the ball)
-Lions(we blew them out so they didn't try to run the ball)
-Packers( Lacey ran the ball well in the first half, second half we did well against him)
-Chargers(they don't have a running game)
-Dolphins(we blew them out)
-Jets( Ivory ran 11 times for 53 yards..a 4.8 yard average and then got injured)
-Bills(held them under 100 yards, a good job of stopping the run)

If there is a good defensive tackle in the draft, I would not hesitate at all to select him With us losing Wilfork, I think it's a major need along with CB and Guard.

Ross12 said:

I don't deny that it was a great stretch; I'm just agreeing with Ashley that maybe it was exposed a bit against Baltimore. I think that the line is plenty good for the regular season, but to stop the run in the postseason, we should add more depth. Maybe "average" was an understatement on my part.

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I'm not sure what the fuss is about the run defense. NE had four genuinely bad games against the run last year. The first three - Miami#1, KC and NYJ#1 - all happened early on when DL and LB were very thin. The last, Baltimore, is the kind of oddity that happens against NE's defense from time to time. Anyone else recall a mediocre Carolina passing offense throwing all over the 2003 squad? Or that Forsett ran for 3.6 ypc in the second half and Baltimore ran for 3.5 as team in the second half?

Granted, Forsett had five runs for 5 yards or more on Baltimore final scoring drive, but that was after being held to 6 total yards for most of the 3rd quarter.

In that way, it was similar to the Green Bay game when Lacey ran wild for a drive, but was held in check after that. Forsett wasn't slowed down as much, but being held to nearly 2ypc below his season average when the game was on the line in the second half is no small feat.

Against Seattle, with one of the best RBs in the league and a QB you have to protect against, was actually a fine effort. A little over 4 ypc with some key stops? I'll take it.

Looking forward, there is little reason to believe a full season of Siliga and Branch won't mostly offset Wilfork, particularly if Easley can give them some rest on passing downs (and it's not like you can't slow down a run game with penetration, either). Depth looks a little scary, but not as scary as it did in September of last year and they made that work even with a thin LB corps.

It's not hard to imagine things breaking wrong, but it's also fairly easy picturing the team being solid even without the likely reinforcements. IMO, the only area that looks too bare right now is short yardage, which puts it on par with 2014, with all sorts of time to get it squared away.

patsfaninpa said:

I'm concerned about our run defense. Not losing VW. He played 70pct of our snaps and made 28 tackles with 23. He was strong at the POA. But, not agile or long enough to finish plays. History tells us BB will address DL early if worried. Or, trade. Traylor, Ted Wadhington, Haynesworth. Our DE's have to play the run better too.

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Haynesworth?