Looks like Goodell might already be ducking for cover on EntrapmentGate

patfanken said:

Rob, I disagree. There are 2 things that are UNDENIABLE . First the Jets tampered with the Pats on Revis. What Johnson said "on the record" was almost word for word what the rule tells you NOT to say. Secondly, they have been warned about this kind of behavior just recently.

That's it. That is all they have to prove to provoke a HARSH penalty from the Jets. It should be significantly harsher than the Niners/Bears example because the Jets are serial offenders. Whether the Pats or the investigators can prove there was more illegal contact later is legally irrelevant. If you commit murder, you are going to get the same sentence whether you shot him once or 5 times

Besides even without DIRECT evidence a strong circumstantial case could be made from facts we already know. The speed of how a complex negotiation could get done in just a few hours, the Mehta tweet, etc. There is little question that several teams violated the "legal tampering policy". But the Jets are the only ones who have already had a written warning, followed by a textbook case of verbal tampering by an owner

For ALL that it is hard to believe that EVEN Goodell can let the Jets walk away with a slap on the wrist like swapping a mid round pick and/or losing a low pick. We have some precedence of what can happen when a perceived serial offender is caught again.

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Technically, Robert Kraft tampered with Revis today. He said he wished he was still with the team. Different situations, but still tampering. I fully expect the Jets to file tampering charges (and can't wait for Manish Mehta to defend them for not being petty).

Everything you have said still does not warrant a first round pick penalty. They will need to have proof of direct contact for them to lose a first round pick.

rlcarr said:

How did Kraft mean that? That Kraft is not thrilled or that Goodell is not thrilled? The "he's" is ambiguous there.

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Sounds like it was Kraft.

Rob0729 said:

Technically, Robert Kraft tampered with Revis today. He said he wished he was still with the team. Different situations, but still tampering. I fully expect the Jets to file tampering charges (and can't wait for Manish Mehta to defend them for not being petty).

Everything you have said still does not warrant a first round pick penalty. They will need to have proof of direct contact for them to lose a first round pick.

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That's crap, he just signed a 5 year deal. That isn't a tamper by any stretch of the imagination.

rlcarr said:

How did Kraft mean that? That Kraft is not thrilled or that Goodell is not thrilled? The "he's" is ambiguous there.

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I took it as Kraft is not thrilled with some in the league office (i.e. Kensil). I think that he now knows that Kensil will be the scapegoat in order that Goodell comes out relatively unscathed (plausible deniability because he lines the owners' pockets).

Mack Herron said:

Judy Battista ‏@judybattista 3m3 minutes ago
Kraft on Deflategate: "I know there is no smoking gun here." thinks Goodell has tough job but he's not thrilled with some in league office.

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Hmm, does this mean he is mad at some in the league office for causing this issue in the first place or mad that they are going to screw the Pats with the final report? It better be the former.

Also I hope he's not referring to "no smoking gun" as the league not seeing all the evidence that Kensil and co intentionally slandered the Pats.

Kraft is clearly confident about the outcome and it sounds like he is aiming at Kensil with his remarks. At least imo....

According the Grigson, he informed the league that the Colts were concerned about the integrity of the footballs days before the AFCCG.

Based on his interview /w King, Goody says that he had no knowledge of a potential issue with the footballs before the AFCCG- only after.

So a commissioner, who is so intent on the integrity of the game wasn't made aware of an issue that one team felt was a competitively sensitive topic for a game that decided a Super Bowl participant?

R U F K M?

These are the questions that I want answered in the Wells Report.

What gave Grigson purpose to alert the league about the Pats footballs?
Who did Grigson tell in the NFL Office?
When did he tell them?
What did that person do with the complaint?
What is the normal process for how these complains are handled?
Who did he/she inform?
Did they inform the Patriots that a complaint was filed?
If not, why not? If so, what did they do?
With this complaint, what was done differently? Why?
What was Kensil's role in this? Who does he report to?

Bonus Questions:
Was Goodell told (I call BS. He knew.) ?
Why did he not know?

This whole thing oozes of incompetence. My god.

IcyPatriot said:

Goodell was that kid who sucked up to the teachers by finking on everyone in grade school ...

Unfortunately our solution for that back in the day is not applicable in the present day.

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I don't know if you intended this as a joke, but it's actually true:

http://deadspin.com/5966254/roger-goodell-was-a-narc-in-high-school-and-hes-proud-of-it

"]Technically, Robert Kraft tampered with Revis today. He said he wished he was still with the team. Different situations, but still tampering. I fully expect the Jets to file tampering charges (and can't wait for Manish Mehta to defend them for not being petty).

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Rob, we have all made some very weak stretches to defend a point we have made. This one might just make the HOF. . The words, timing of the words, and the entire situation were completely different. Are you really trying to tell us, that if Bob Kraft every says he wishes Vince could have stayed with the Pats would be tampering?

I have written many "weak sauce" stretches to make a point in my time, and THIS, my friend is "weak sauce"

Everything you have said still does not warrant a first round pick penalty. They will need to have proof of direct contact for them to lose a first round pick.

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Well I never claimed we deserve a first round pick. I just opined that the league would administer something significantly harsher than the Niner/Bear example

a. They were given a written warning. b. the owner gave a text book example of tampering just months before Revis is likely to hit FA. c. the entirety of several teams gutting the "legal tampering policy (including the Jets). That's 3 strikes, Rob on stuff they can already prove, and that's before they look at the email, phone records, etc

It might never reach the level of a first round pick or even a first round swap (which I think would be fair), but it WILL be significantly more than the Niner/Bear example. And think about this Rob. I think tampering is an issue that probably pisses off the owners more than it does the HC's, GM's, players, and fans. These are 32 Billionaire alpha males, who aren't likely to want other teams poaching their "property". So even if you and I think of this as something innocuous, THEY might be likely to take it personally. And unless they all agree to allow open season on everyone's "property", I think they will DEMAND something to be done to stop the madness....and not just to the Jets, though they need to be dealt with more harshly because of the serial nature of their crimes

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/kraft-fan-me-wanted-keep-revis

Eh, I think that falls quite a bit short of tampering. He makes a clear distinction between speaking as a fan and an owner of the football team and the "interest" in his comments as forbidden by the rules is spurious.

Koma said:

I don't know if you intended this as a joke, but it's actually true:

http://deadspin.com/5966254/roger-goodell-was-a-narc-in-high-school-and-hes-proud-of-it

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Snitching on classmates? That is total doochbaggery..

patfanken said:

Rob, we have all made some very weak stretches to defend a point we have made. This one might just make the HOF. . The words, timing of the words, and the entire situation were completely different. Are you really trying to tell us, that if Bob Kraft every says he wishes Vince could have stayed with the Pats would be tampering?

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I am not making a weak stretch. Technically, Bob Kraft tampered with Revis today. And I fully expect the Jets to file tampering charges just to be petty.

I have written many "weak sauce" stretches to make a point in my time, and THIS, my friend is "weak sauce"
Well I never claimed we deserve a first round pick. I just opined that the league would administer something significantly harsher than the Niner/Bear example

a. They were given a written warning. b. the owner gave a text book example of tampering just months before Revis is likely to hit FA. c. the entirety of several teams gutting the "legal tampering policy (including the Jets). That's 3 strikes, Rob on stuff they can already prove, and that's before they look at the email, phone records, etc

It might never reach the level of a first round pick or even a first round swap (which I think would be fair), but it WILL be significantly more than the Niner/Bear example. And think about this Rob. I think tampering is an issue that probably pisses off the owners more than it does the HC's, GM's, players, and fans. These are 32 Billionaire alpha males, who aren't likely to want other teams poaching their "property". So even if you and I think of this as something innocuous, THEY might be likely to take it personally. And unless they all agree to allow open season on everyone's "property", I think they will DEMAND something to be done to stop the madness....and not just to the Jets, though they need to be dealt with more harshly because of the serial nature of their crimes

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The Jets deserve a harsher punishment because of repeat offenses. I am saying they will never have to surrender a first round pick without proven evidence of direct contact. I don't expect a second rounder either without it. I think at best you can hope for is swapping thirds without anything else that we already know. And even then, I think it is unlikely.

It is funny. When the league does announce the punishment. Both Pats and Jets fans are going to be upset. Pats fans will think it isn't enough and the Goodell is protecting his team and the Jets fans will think it is way too much and Goodell is looking out for his buddy Kraft.

You guys who are expecting a stiff penalty are really setting yourselves up for disappointment. I just don't see it happening. Part of me hopes I am wrong, but without evidence of direct contact I think I am right.

Galeb said:

What if the findings show that it goes all the way back to spygate?

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I like your thinking! It makes sense that Kraft may have been the impetus of the Wells investigation. If Wells is investigating the possibility of bias against the Patriots, it also makes sense that road would lead him back to spygate (unless of course he was concerned with keeping billable hours low). Harder to show bias with one incident in isolation.

I think when Kraft had that Presser before Superbowl defending TB & BB he was tellin all involved to BRING IT! Show us what you have and Pats Org. will cooperate with investigation. After that Presser you could see how many times story changed starting with Colt's DB who intercepted Brady sayin he took INT Ball over to their equiptment manager then to Coach then reporter THEN DB retracts and says he never said it was deflated i'm a DB how would I know it. This has Set Up written all over it.
All I know is we played SB with regulation PSI Footballs and Brady threew 4 TDs against so called second comin of '86 Bears and now for chitz & giggles I'm gonna put on SB again because I Luv Ending!

The MMQB: You know that there’s a storyline out there that you knew about the deflating and wanted to catch them in the act.

Goodell: Let’s just short circuit this a little bit. I’m not going to get into what we knew and when we knew it because that’s part of what he’s investigating. … I can tell you that I was not personally aware of it until after the game.

Were you as impressed as I was by King's hard hitting, follow-up question: "Mr. Commissioner, you just said that you were 'not personally aware of it until after the game.' To your knowledge was anyone on your staff aware of it during or before the game?".....NOT!

sb1 said:

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/kraft-fan-me-wanted-keep-revis

Eh, I think that falls quite a bit short of tampering. He makes a clear distinction between speaking as a fan and an owner of the football team and the "interest" in his comments as forbidden by the rules is spurious.

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I heard it wrong. I guess it isn't tampering because he was speaking in past tense.

]I am not making a weak stretch. Technically, Bob Kraft tampered with Revis today. And I fully expect the Jets to file tampering charges just to be petty

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. You and Ray Ray are on a island of your own on this one, brother, but who cares.

The Jets deserve a harsher punishment because of repeat offenses. I am saying they will never have to surrender a first round pick without proven evidence of direct contact. I don't expect a second rounder either without it. I think at best you can hope for is swapping thirds without anything else that we already know. And even then, I think it is unlikely.

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Your consistency should be commended I'm thinking if they really want to do anything to deter tampering around the league, they will have to dish out a harsher deterrent than that. And the Jets are set up to be the fall guys for all the "legal tampering" shenanigans because of the serial nature of their crimes. That's just a coincidence that happily benefits us. To what degree is where we disagree.

It is funny. When the league does announce the punishment. Both Pats and Jets fans are going to be upset. Pats fans will think it isn't enough and the Goodell is protecting his team and the Jets fans will think it is way too much and Goodell is looking out for his buddy Kraft.

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Right on the money with this one, Rob. And I think the "deflategate" result will be equally disparaged by both fan bases.

BTW- Jet fans are always leading the charge with their claims that the Pats have been protected by the league, however I have never seen a SINGLE example of that kind of behavior. While on the other hand, I can think of at least 2 times off the top of my head when the Jets seemed to get off easy or cut a break, and their could be more.

You guys who are expecting a stiff penalty are really setting yourselves up for disappointment. I just don't see it happening. Part of me hopes I am wrong, but without evidence of direct contact I think I am right.[/

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That; is what is so great about opinions. Everyone gets to have one. At least by the end of the week, we are likely to get to know who's was correct.....or at least more correct.

Also, wouldn't the fact that the Pats decided to drop out of the "bidding" on Revis more than a full day before he became a FA, pretty compelling evidence of "direct contact" between Revis and the Jets?????

neuronet said:

In one of the VERY early threads (like within days of the story breaking) Ice Ice Brady has a prescient post saying it was a sting:
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...ls-were-tampered-with-by-human.1115464/page-8

That post by his was, in general, really on target. Kudos to the Iceman!

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Thanks, neuronet!

Wheelman said:

I would so love to see the Colts lose a 1st round pick for this, Grigson and Irsay getting fined. That would be awesome! But I know it'll never happen.

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I think the punishment will be that Goodell makes the Colts forfeit the 2014 AFCCG.

If/When found innocent someone needs to punch Bettis, Brunnel and King in the face.

And of course Greg Doyel