Looks like Goodell might already be ducking for cover on EntrapmentGate

Rob0729 said:

Well, why would they wait to after the draft to kill Belichick. I could see it now:

Mazz: "Mike, so the Pats now have the sixth, 29th, and 32nd pick in the draft."

Felger: "Oh, great I am sure Belichick will parlay those picks into four second rounders, eight third rounders, and twenty-two seventh round picks and all the Patriots toading will be crowing about what VALUE Belichick got."

Mazz: "I am so sick of the value picks, Mike. Just use the picks."

Felger: "You know we have a policy here of not killing someone before they actually do something, but you know the Pats are going to to turn all those first round picks into Darius Butlers, Aaron Dobsons, and Jake Bequettes. "

I would say you know it is coming, but you know the Pats are not getting either the Jets' or Colts' first round picks. So it won't.

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I doubt the Pats will get much of any compensation from either, but if Kraft has enough evidence, it is possible. That said, there is no way the Pats are getting the 6th pick. Neither the NFL FO or the media could stomach the Pats getting #6 after winning the superbowl.

IMO the #6 is probably too much compensation. If the Jets are found guilty of the second offense, (third if you include the warning), I think think a swap of 2nd rounders would be fair compensation. I'd be shocked if the Pats get anything better than a swap of 4ths.

Galeb said:

I doubt the Pats will get much of any compensation from either, but if Kraft has enough evidence, it is possible. That said, there is no way the Pats are getting the 6th pick. Neither the NFL FO or the media could stomach the Pats getting #6 after winning the superbowl.

IMO the #6 is probably too much compensation. If the Jets are found guilty of the second offense, (third if you include the warning), I think think a swap of 2nd rounders would be fair compensation. I'd be shocked if the Pats get anything better than a swap of 4ths.

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If they find proof that the Jets spoke to Revis and his people before he became a free agent, I think a first rounder could be justified. Short of that though, no way do the Pats get that pick.

Rob0729 said:

If they find proof that the Jets spoke to Revis and his people before he became a free agent, I think a first rounder could be justified. Short of that though, no way do the Pats get that pick.

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If it was pick #16, maybe. Not pick #6.

Rob0729 said:

So those keeping track, this board has already awarded the Pats the #6, #29, and #32 picks in the first round. Wow! The Thursday night of the draft will be fun to be a Pats' fan, at least in our heads.

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Don't forget we're going to get a 1st round "compensatory" pick when it's found that Kensil unfairly caused the loss of a first for Spygate. So we're going to have 6, 29, 32, AND 33

Galeb said:

If it was pick #16, maybe. Not pick #6.

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So the Pats get punished because the Rats suck?

Sicilian said:

Don't forget we're going to get a 1st round "compensatory" pick when it's found that Kensil unfairly caused the loss of a first for Spygate. So we're going to have 6, 29, 32, AND 33

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And people would still ***** that BB had a horrible draft.

The Gr8est said:

So the Pats get punished because the Rats suck?

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That's not being punished, it is just the reality that the #6 pick IMO is too valuable to be swapped as compensation. It's circumstances, not some some punitive measure.

Well the Rats would use it on guys like Gholston or Millner, so it is a somewhat depreciated asset by definition.

The Gr8est said:

Well the Rats would use it on guys like Gholston or Millner, so it is a somewhat depreciated asset by definition.

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Yeah, in the last 12 years or so they have had about 5-6 picks in the top 10 and the only one that worked out was D'Brickishaw Ferguson who was good, but not great.

Goodell was that kid who sucked up to the teachers by finking on everyone in grade school ...

Unfortunately our solution for that back in the day is not applicable in the present day.

Interesting. They are running The Ice Bowl on NFLN and Meredith is taking about how it felt like the ball was getting bigger as the game went on and that it got harder and harder to throw it, and while he talking they are showing his passes and you would swear you were watching Peyton Manning as they fluttered softly along and into the arms of Green Bay defenders. Is a shame Aikman and Montana aren't watching, they could accuse Meredith of cheating.

Up until now, I think most every bit of information (length of investigation, reasons why they would delay, etc. etc. seemed to have arguments for why they are both good and bad for the Patriots.) However, I think Goodell's comments to Peter King are the first sign that the Patriots are most likely going to come out unscathed here. The fact Goodell acknowledged that the chain of command issue was also part of the Wells investigation, to me, is a very big deal, and the fact he is already denying having prior knowledge of the operations can only be interpreted as a good sign for the Patriots.

I had thought this investigation may be taking a long time because the league has already told the Patriots about sanctions and were now hearing their appeals/ dealing with potential legal threats. However, Goodell's comments lead to to believe that perhaps the appeals and legal threats may be coming from the attacking side (Kensil). I do wonder if the league is going to mete out discipline on any parties prior to releasing the Wells report to the public, so that they can show how proactive they were in rooting out potential issues.

All in all, I'd say my view prior to the King article was about 60-40 that that the Patriots would receive no discipline (not even a small fine), and now that has moved to 80/20.

PATS16N0 said:

Would depend entirely on media reporting. If a huge scandal falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, does a huge scandal fall in the woods?

Not really.

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If something like that happened it would be on the nightly news.

oldrover said:

"The great and powerful Goodell has spoken! Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"

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you deserve a gold star for that post.

Some comments on the comments - or my fears and expectations on "deflategate"

1. My biggest fear comes from the impression that Welles' report is actually independent. I don't see how it could be. Welles' law firm collects millions of dollars in legal fees from the NFL. Anyone who expect this report to reflect badly on the league is naïve.

2. The next biggest fear, is that we will never see the full report. Don't forget it is the League who owns this report. Its their to do with what they wish. I have no expectation that the league will allow anything damaging to the league to get to the public. No corporation would, why would we expect this one to be the first.

3. The 3rd fear is the one everyone should expect. The Pats won't be proven innocent, just not guilty. It will basically read, "We couldn't find any direct evidence that the Pats committed any wrong doing" In other words we can't prove them guilty, but that doesn't mean they didn't do anything. We just can't find the evidence at this time.

4. I have no compensation expectations from this, though I would like to see guys like Kensil fired, and perhaps the Colts get fined and/or lose picks.

5. Here is what I'd LIKE to happen.

a. The league issues a public apology to the Pats for its lack of institutional control in allowing biased and misleading leaks that materially damaged the Pats legacy, and for allowing the league office to be used by a small renegade group with a specific anti-Pats agenda.

b. I'd like ESPNl to issue a public apology to the Patriots organization of its part in "leakgate". To apologize for allowing ESPN to be used by Kensil and his ilk to promote his own agenda. And to apologize for using poor journalistic methods and procedures

c. I'd like to see Kensil fired, at least. Goodell is seems to be in the process of setting up a Nuremburg defense, which basically consists of "I didn't know" and "I was just following orders" If Goodell were a man governed by a sense of personal accountability, he'd resign immediately. Even if he really didn't know what Kensil and his cabal were up to, he SHOULD have.

6. The fact is, I doubt that any of what I would "like" to happen will happen. In the end, Kensil and the haters will win. Even if he gets fired, the damage he and his accomplices at ESPN invoked on the Pats cannot be undone. There is always going to be a very vocal minority who will spin this to hurt the Pats, and there are enough mediots around who will never hesitate to stir the pot, if they think it will get them some notoriety.

Think about it. I used to think that Florio was an anti-pats hater, Now I realize that in reality he is just a pro-click whore. He knows all he needs to add hundreds of clicks to his site is to write an inflammatory and misleading headline (Like he did with Rooney's comments on "formation=gate") Immediately he knows the haters will rush in to post their screed, and there will be 3X's that number of Pats fans to defend the faith. .....and the clicks just keep on coming.

7. In the end we won't get the Justice we deserve, and will have to settle for the Justice we can get.

Judy Battista ‏@judybattista 3m3 minutes ago
Kraft on Deflategate: "I know there is no smoking gun here." thinks Goodell has tough job but he's not thrilled with some in league office.

I would so love to see the Colts lose a 1st round pick for this, Grigson and Irsay getting fined. That would be awesome! But I know it'll never happen.

In one of the VERY early threads (like within days of the story breaking) Ice Ice Brady has a prescient post saying it was a sting:
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...ls-were-tampered-with-by-human.1115464/page-8

That post by his was, in general, really on target. Kudos to the Iceman!

Rob0729 said:

If they find proof that the Jets spoke to Revis and his people before he became a free agent, I think a first rounder could be justified. Short of that though, no way do the Pats get that pick.

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Rob, I disagree. There are 2 things that are UNDENIABLE . First the Jets tampered with the Pats on Revis. What Johnson said "on the record" was almost word for word what the rule tells you NOT to say. Secondly, they have been warned about this kind of behavior just recently.

That's it. That is all they have to prove to provoke a HARSH penalty from the Jets. It should be significantly harsher than the Niners/Bears example because the Jets are serial offenders. Whether the Pats or the investigators can prove there was more illegal contact later is legally irrelevant. If you commit murder, you are going to get the same sentence whether you shot him once or 5 times

Besides even without DIRECT evidence a strong circumstantial case could be made from facts we already know. The speed of how a complex negotiation could get done in just a few hours, the Mehta tweet, etc. There is little question that several teams violated the "legal tampering policy". But the Jets are the only ones who have already had a written warning, followed by a textbook case of verbal tampering by an owner. Looks like 3 strikes to me, Rob

For ALL that it is hard to believe that EVEN Goodell can let the Jets walk away with a slap on the wrist like swapping a mid round pick and/or losing a low pick. We have some precedence of what can happen when a perceived serial offender is caught again.

Mack Herron said:

Judy Battista ‏@judybattista 3m3 minutes ago
Kraft on Deflategate: "I know there is no smoking gun here." thinks Goodell has tough job but he's not thrilled with some in league office.

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How did Kraft mean that? That Kraft is not thrilled or that Goodell is not thrilled? The "he's" is ambiguous there.