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The Most Egregious Case of Tampering Ever


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Demonstrating yet again that you are incapable of explaining why the Jets tampering is no worse than the Briggs it Cunningham cases. Say hi to Manish for us.


I have outlined in detail why this case is far worse than prior incidents and all you can do is link to a picture of Clay Matthews that apparently gives you wood.
 
Demonstrating yet again that you are incapable of explaining why the Jets tampering is no worse than the Briggs it Cunningham cases. Say hi to Manish for us.


I have outlined in detail why this case is far worse than prior incidents and all you can do is link to a picture of Clay Matthews that apparently gives you wood.
It's got the phone # of the guy in charge of making the decision in this case. Call him up and let him know what you think he should do. I've stated it's more egregious. I'm also being realistic. If we get the Jets 1st pick I'd be thrilled. I'd also be thrilled if I hit the lottery tonight as well.
 
It's got the phone # of the guy in charge of making the decision in this case. Call him up and let him know what you think he should do. I've stated it's more egregious. I'm also being realistic. If we get the Jets 1st pick I'd be thrilled. I'd also be thrilled if I hit the lottery tonight as well.


If a picture of Clay Matthews is all you have to add to the discussion then you really have nothing. A number of people have explained why this case is worse than Briggs and Cunningham and you apparently disagree but refuse to outline why, you just keep deflecting when asked to give the reasons they are the same. The Jets repeatedly tampered with an All Pro player on a division rival and then signed him away from them, feel free to find any example of tampering that equals that and explain how they are the same.
 
If a picture of Clay Matthews is all you have to add to the discussion then you really have nothing. A number of people have explained why this case is worse than Briggs and Cunningham and you apparently disagree but refuse to outline why, you just keep deflecting when asked to give the reasons they are the same. The Jets repeatedly tampered with an All Pro player on a division rival and then signed him away from them, feel free to find any example of tampering that equals that and explain how they are the same.
I'd be psyched if Roger hammers them. What do you think he will actually do?
 
I'd be psyched if Roger hammers them. What do you think he will actually do?


I have no idea all I know is what happened and what the prior sanctions were. I don't think it will be their first but I absolutely believe it should be. The reason Revis didn't return to the Jets from Tampa was because Johnson said he wouldn't take him back because of his repeated holdouts, that's why the press conference was such a big deal as Johnson publicly reversed himself and went on record that he wanted him back and was willing to pay for it. At that point there was zero chance the Patriots would keep him unless they gave him 25 million for a one year rental, and Revis may even have held out on that. People can act like tampering is no big deal but in this case it really was and if the league doesn't want rivals tampering with starts then they will have to come down hard on this case.
 
I'd be psyched if Roger hammers them. What do you think he will actually do?

Unfortunately I would guess it will be their second or a swap of seconds, but IMO it should be their first because the Jets did serious damage to the Patriots by signing Revis back. However I'm still going to keep calling for their first and acting like they will get if for no other reason than to piss off the Jets trolls who come here. And that actually works as one of them put me on ignore because of it, after he had a good cry about it, but either way it worked
 
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It's got the phone # of the guy in charge of making the decision in this case. Call him up and let him know what you think he should do. I've stated it's more egregious. I'm also being realistic. If we get the Jets 1st pick I'd be thrilled. I'd also be thrilled if I hit the lottery tonight as well.


He actually lives right around the corner from me but rarely pops his head out of his limo so I can insult him. One of lifes little tragedies.
 
I have no idea all I know is what happened and what the prior sanctions were. I don't think it will be their first but I absolutely believe it should be. The reason Revis didn't return to the Jets from Tampa was because Johnson said he wouldn't take him back because of his repeated holdouts, that's why the press conference was such a big deal as Johnson publicly reversed himself and went on record that he wanted him back and was willing to pay for it. At that point there was zero chance the Patriots would keep him unless they gave him 25 million for a one year rental, and Revis may even have held out on that. People can act like tampering is no big deal but in this case it really was and if the league doesn't want rivals tampering with starts then they will have to come down hard on this case.
That's a solid, rational, reasoned response.

I know you didn't like the the Trade Chart reference to try to evaluate what might happen, but I can't really come up with a better barometer on how to gage what the punishment should be, so I put a numerical value on it. The previous biggest swing was 29.8 pts (Chi-SF)

I'm looking at it like this to rank the punishment in terms of degrees of being more severe compared to that case:
A swap of 4ths (104 for 131) 1.5X's
A swap of 3rds (70 for 96) 3.5X's
A swap of 2nds (37 for 64) 8.5X's
A swap of 1sts (6 for 32) 33.5X's

I hadn't tabulated it like this before, but now that I look at it I'd say a 2nd swap is warranted, a swap of 3rds would seem more likely.
 
What Woody said did not, in fact, matter. If Woody had never said a word publicly and had never leaked anything to Mehta, things would have happened the same as they did. Why? Because they still would have gotten the info to Revis out-of-sight. They might have reached out to Revis's agent. Revis's agent might have (and I bet sure he did because he would have been an idiot otherwise) call them and asked and they answered. Point being that Revis would have had exactly the same info if Woody had been locked away from all microphones.

That does not mean Woody shouldn't be punished. He clearly broke a clear rule and should be punished. However, I reject the "this has to be punished worse than Cameragate because it's worse" claim. Two wrongs don't make a right -- NE being ridiculously overpunished in Cameragate shouldn't mean overpunishments should keep on happening. Punish the Jets worse than NE should have been punished, not worse than NE was punished. I'd rather have punishments return to sanity than to keep the stupidity going.

If there's a "most egregious case of tampering ever", that would be about whatever happened via backchannels, not Woody's stupid statement. So sure, punish them hard for that if there's evidence of actual illegal negotiations. (Though before calling for heads over that, ask yourself exactly how sure you are that NE has never negotiated illegally, and how sure you are there aren't any records of it. As the Herald's Jeff Howe notes "However, remember it only took the Patriots five hours to agree to their deal with Revis last year after he was cut by the Buccaneers.")

Also, since most owners are not as stupid as Woody, there may well have been plenty of just as or more egregious tampering going on that we've never heard about because it was all out of the public eye.

I disagree - it absolutely mattered.

A market is set by bidders, and PUBLIC bidding puts the bidder on the spot with (in this case, his fan base. Whispering in back rooms isn't the same because there'd be no public embarrassment for Woody and the JEST if he didn't come through with the whispered promises.

Woody set an expectation early on with a clear signal to Revis AND TO JEST FANS (aka morons) that he would aggressively go after Revis. And then, given the Mehta piece on Monday that almost exactly echoed the final deal, it's pretty clear that this is an egregious case of tampering.

if this isn't tampering, then nothing is, and the rule should just be abandoned.
 
That's a solid, rational, reasoned response.

I know you didn't like the the Trade Chart reference to try to evaluate what might happen, but I can't really come up with a better barometer on how to gage what the punishment should be, so I put a numerical value on it. The previous biggest swing was 29.8 pts (Chi-SF)

I'm looking at it like this to rank the punishment in terms of degrees of being more severe compared to that case:
A swap of 4ths (104 for 131) 1.5X's
A swap of 3rds (70 for 96) 3.5X's
A swap of 2nds (37 for 64) 8.5X's
A swap of 1sts (6 for 32) 33.5X's

I hadn't tabulated it like this before, but now that I look at it I'd say a 2nd swap is warranted, a swap of 3rds would seem more likely.


Fair enough. The reason I didn't like it was because it required context and that was lacking. Once the tampering is measured against other cases and their respective sanctions then it comes into play. I obviously disagree on the ultimate sanction because I just don't see how the league equates it to the Briggs case, which was mild. Ultimately what should drive the result would be a finding that the Jets tampered again after the press conference, and there is more than just smoke indicating they did. If so I don't see how they can only give the Patriots anything other than the Jets first, multiple incidents with the same player on a division rival and they signed that player, that would be unprecedented. But that's just how I see it.

I don't trust Goodell any more than anyone else here I just see the incident as separate from my opinion of him.
 
Kudos for the reasoned exchanges of viewpoints
 
My prediction: 25k fine, no forfeiture of draft picks.
 
If a picture of Clay Matthews is all you have to add to the discussion then you really have nothing. A number of people have explained why this case is worse than Briggs and Cunningham and you apparently disagree but refuse to outline why, you just keep deflecting when asked to give the reasons they are the same. The Jets repeatedly tampered with an All Pro player on a division rival and then signed him away from them, feel free to find any example of tampering that equals that and explain how they are the same.

I don't think the picture of Clay Matthews is the relevant part of that attachment. Goodell's phone number is.

Matthews' pic just happens to be a part of the attachment because Matthews had issues with Roger (just like we do). So he tweeted that number and told everyone, basically, "Sic 'Em!'.
 
That's a solid, rational, reasoned response.

I know you didn't like the the Trade Chart reference to try to evaluate what might happen, but I can't really come up with a better barometer on how to gage what the punishment should be, so I put a numerical value on it. The previous biggest swing was 29.8 pts (Chi-SF)

I'm looking at it like this to rank the punishment in terms of degrees of being more severe compared to that case:
A swap of 4ths (104 for 131) 1.5X's
A swap of 3rds (70 for 96) 3.5X's
A swap of 2nds (37 for 64) 8.5X's
A swap of 1sts (6 for 32) 33.5X's

I hadn't tabulated it like this before, but now that I look at it I'd say a 2nd swap is warranted, a swap of 3rds would seem more likely.

I think a forced swap of 4ths is the most likely scenario.

Last pick taken away (from Detroit) for tampering was in '11 and it was for a 7th round, IIRC.
 
My prediction: 25k fine, no forfeiture of draft picks.

My prediction: If they can't link the Mehta story to anything from the Jets...Exchange of 4ths and a later round pick outright. But since the Jets don't have all their late picks this year. That late rounder might be deferred til 2016. Plus a $100K fine due to the repeat offense. Rog gets pretty indignant when he's ignored.

But if they can link the Mehta story in with a larger scheme...exchange of 2nds and a 4th outright. Plus a fine of at least $250K.

PS - I forgot to include that the Pats and Jets are division rivals in my thinking in my post on the previous page. And I do think that will increase the penalties and compensation.
 
My prediction. The evidence of multiple tampering incidents is too overwhelming for Carrottop to ignore and he has the Patriots and Jets swap first rounders and he takes away their fourth rounder.
 
Kudos for the reasoned exchanges of viewpoints


Well, thanks to fnord my good humor is now gone and anyone who disagrees will get the Samuel Jackson speech in Pulp Fiction as a response....
 
I think a forced swap of 4ths is the most likely scenario.

Last pick taken away (from Detroit) for tampering was in '11 and it was for a 7th round, IIRC.

That also involved a swap of 5s on top of it, and that was based on a defensive coordinator making vague statements about wanting to sign FAs from his old team. Not an owner naming a specific player.
 
This was more blatant theft than tampering. With apologies to Billy Jack:

Woody Jack - "I'm going to take this huge cap space and slap it upside Revis' head, and there ain't a damn thing you can do about it."
 
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