The Most Egregious Case of Tampering Ever

Brady2Moss said:

It would probably be more beneficial to the Pats if Rodger the Fraud made the Jets keep that pick, you guys can draft another Vernon Gholston to pair up with Mevis. Enjoy going 7-9 and being eliminated from the playoffs by the Barfallo Bills in week 15

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Fraudger Goodjet?

rlcarr said:

Reiss has echoed my feelings on the tampering aspect of this well. And in a lot fewer words

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All Reiss is saying Is the same meme repeated here over and over, everyone does it..... But the truth is that you never hear owners saying what Johnson said, which is the textbook example of tampering. And I simply don't agree it's not a big deal and it would be a very big deal if the owner of the Texans came out and said he really wanted Andre Luck and then repeatedly leaked that he was going to give him whatever he wants. The Jets repeatedly tampered with a first ballot HOF CB under contract to a division rival, and I guarantee that tampering would become a huge deal if Robert Kraft came out and said he really wants Sheldon Richardson and then repeatedly leaked that he was going to give him 100 million and then actually did it. The Jets first rounder is the only appropriate sanction.

Ivan said:

All Reiss is saying Is the same meme repeated here over and over, everyone does it..... But the truth is that you never hear owners saying what Johnson said, which is the textbook example of tampering. And I simply don't agree it's not a big deal and it would be a very big deal if the owner of the Texans came out and said he really wanted Andre Luck and then repeatedly leaked that he was going to give him whatever he wants. The Jets repeatedly tampered with a first ballot HOF CB under contract to a division rival, and I guarantee that tampering would become a huge deal if Robert Kraft came out and said he really wants Sheldon Richardson and then repeatedly leaked that he was going to give him 100 million and then actually did it. The Jets first rounder is the only appropriate sanction.

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The point too often being overlooked is that in Spygate, the NFL offices made it crystal clear that the "everyone does it" excuse had zero relevance, nor did the actual degree of benefit from such actions. The Pats got nailed much less for having a camera recording in the wrong place nad much, much more for flaunting a league memo warning and going ahead with the practice anyway.

Which brings us to this case, meaning that the "everyone does it" excuse doesn't matter, and nor does the actual benefit of the tampering (which is unknown, but has some merit as the Jets DID sign Revis in the end). It's like parenting - you have to be consistent or your authority goes out the window. Well, Godell set the precedent, and he's got to follow through or he's gone form his job.

Plus I was able to swallow the overreaction to Spygate to some degree, but after the league's contribution to the leaks of DeflateGate and their complete lack of any action to halt the runaway mob, as a Pats fan I'm in full FU mode.

Wheelssps said:

The point too often being overlooked is that in Spygate, the NFL offices made it crystal clear that the "everyone does it" excuse had zero relevance, nor did the actual degree of benefit from such actions. The Pats got nailed much less for having a camera recording in the wrong place nad much, much more for flaunting a league memo warning and going ahead with the practice anyway.

Which brings us to this case, meaning that the "everyone does it" excuse doesn't matter, and nor does the actual benefit of the tampering (which is unknown, but has some merit as the Jets DID sign Revis in the end). It's like parenting - you have to be consistent or your authority goes out the window. Well, Godell set the precedent, and he's got to follow through or he's gone form his job.

Plus I was able to swallow the overreaction to Spygate to some degree, but after the league's contribution to the leaks of DeflateGate and their complete lack of any action to halt the runaway mob, as a Pats fan I'm in full FU mode.

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I agree completely. The Patriots get crucified for things that everyone else is doing so I have zero empathy for any other team in that situation. Hang em' high.......

From Rich Cimini, evidently on the ESPN Jets beat.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-je...ting-for-verdict-on-patriots-tampering-charge

It's hard not to be cynical, considering the league's less-than-sterling reputation for conducting (botching?) investigations. It probably would take the NFL six months and a six-figure cost to investigate a salad-bar theft from its own cafeteria. Close your eyes, and you can almost picture Inspector Clouseau pulling up to One Jets Drive, looking for answers.

A resolution is expected before the April 30 draft because a tampering penalty could involve the forfeiture of a draft pick or the swapping of picks. A theoretical penalty: The Jets, picking fifth in the fourth round, are forced to change places with the Patriots, who have the 32nd pick.

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A seemingly forgotten consequence here: the longer the NFL drags this out, the longer the Patriots' FU Mode lasts into next season. If they had put it to bed in two weeks, the rage may have settled by midseason... But here we are going into April without a settlement, so I anticipate BB and crew to be serving beat downs league wide straight through January.

Fencer said:

From Rich Cimini, evidently on the ESPN Jets beat.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-je...ting-for-verdict-on-patriots-tampering-charge

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So anyone else think the real reason for Cimini to write this is to put the idea of swapping 4ths being the penalty, into the public consciousness, to nudge them in the direction of thinking that being a reasonable penalty?

I remember early in CameraPlacementGate, John Clayton reported that the Omissioner was looking at the loss of a 2nd at the best case.

That served to get people thinking in terms of a very severe penalty to be going against the Pats.

The Gr8est said:

So anyone else think the real reason for Cimini to write this is to put the idea of swapping 4ths being the penalty, into the public consciousness, to nudge them in the direction of thinking that being a reasonable penalty?

I remember early in CameraPlacementGate, John Clayton reported that the Omissioner was looking at the loss of a 2nd at the best case.

That served to get people thinking in terms of a very severe penalty to be going against the Pats.

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There could have been a targeted leak for that reason.

The Gr8est said:

So anyone else think the real reason for Cimini to write this is to put the idea of swapping 4ths being the penalty, into the public consciousness, to nudge them in the direction of thinking that being a reasonable penalty?

I remember early in CameraPlacementGate, John Clayton reported that the Omissioner was looking at the loss of a 2nd at the best case.

That served to get people thinking in terms of a very severe penalty to be going against the Pats.

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Possibly--although I think a lot of people feel as though a swapping of mid-low round picks is what we're potentially looking at.

The Gr8est said:

So anyone else think the real reason for Cimini to write this is to put the idea of swapping 4ths being the penalty, into the public consciousness, to nudge them in the direction of thinking that being a reasonable penalty?

I remember early in CameraPlacementGate, John Clayton reported that the Omissioner was looking at the loss of a 2nd at the best case.

That served to get people thinking in terms of a very severe penalty to be going against the Pats.

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He's been reading my posts. To me it seems to be the most logical conclusion to guesstimate what Goodell will do based on the 2 previous cases.

The Bears and 49ers swapped 3rds (#70 for #75) for the Briggs case in 2008. The Lions and Chiefs swapped 5ths (#140 for #154) in 2011. Those are the only 2 cases where punishment has being given out with regards to tampering.

The Jets have no 5th or 6th Rd picks this year and our 7th is higher than theirs. A swap of 4ths (#104 for #131 with comp projections included) would in fact be a stiffer penalty than the 2 previous cases if you go by any draft value chart http://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp

#70 (240 pts) for #75(215 pts)=25 pts
#140 (36 pts) for #154(29.8 pts)=6.2 pts
#104 (86 pts) for #131(41 pts)=45 pts

A swap of firsts (#6 1600 pts for #32 590pts) would be astronomically higher (1010 pts) then the 2 previous rulings. To call for a slap on the wrist and no compensation as Mehta would suggest would be nothing short of glaring hypocrisy. I've seen a swap of 3rds suggested (#70 215 pts for #96 116) which would be 99 pts and not outlandish and actually warranted considering how egregious this case has been.

A swap of 1sts or 2nds would just seem to far out of alignment with previous rulings. This has been my contention all along. I think the decision was already made some time ago but can't be released until after the comp picks are publicly released, which will probably be tomorrow.

OhExaulted1 said:

He's been reading my posts. To me it seems to be the most logical conclusion to guesstimate what Goodell will do based on the 2 previous cases.

The Bears and 49ers swapped 3rds (#70 for #75) for the Briggs case in 2008. The Lions and Chiefs swapped 5ths (#140 for #154) in 2011. Those are the only 2 cases where punishment has being given out with regards to tampering.

The Jets have no 5th or 6th Rd picks this year and our 7th is higher than theirs. A swap of 4ths (#104 for #131 with comp projections included) would in fact be a stiffer penalty than the 2 previous cases if you go by any draft value chart http://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp

#70 (240 pts) for #75(215 pts)=25 pts
#140 (36 pts) for #154(29.8 pts)=6.2 pts
#104 (86 pts) for #131(41 pts)=45 pts

A swap of firsts (#6 1600 pts for #32 590pts) would be astronomically higher (1010 pts) then the 2 previous rulings. To call for a slap on the wrist and no compensation as Mehta would suggest would be nothing short of glaring hypocrisy. I've seen a swap of 3rds suggested (#70 215 pts for #96 116) which would be 99 pts and not outlandish and actually warranted considering how egregious this case has been.

A swap of 1sts or 2nds would just seem to far out of alignment with previous rulings. This has been my contention all along. I think the decision was already made some time ago but can't be released until after the comp picks are publicly released, which will probably be tomorrow.

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(A) The penalty has also included the forfeiture of a draft pick.
(B) This needs to be a larger penalty, since it involves an owner who had already been warned, and possibly further tampering beyond that.
(C) Most importantly, they got the player they wanted. I honestly think that even something like 39 for 64 isn't enough of a deterrent.

ctpatsfan77 said:

(A) The penalty has also included the forfeiture of a draft pick.
(B) This needs to be a larger penalty, since it involves an owner who had already been warned, and possibly further tampering beyond that.
(C) Most importantly, they got the player they wanted. I honestly think that even something like 39 for 64 isn't enough of a deterrent.

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Is that what you think will happen? Where does the person making this decision reside and who was his former employer? Sounds great, just unrealistic.

The loss of that seventh was pretty much negligable, BTW. More UDFA's probably made 53 man rosters than from that pick on.

ctpatsfan77 said:

(A) The penalty has also included the forfeiture of a draft pick.
(B) This needs to be a larger penalty, since it involves an owner who had already been warned, and possibly further tampering beyond that.
(C) Most importantly, they got the player they wanted. I honestly think that even something like 39 for 64 isn't enough of a deterrent.

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I'd be more than happy if the ruling was a swap of second rd picks and the Jets forfeit their third round. That would be a decent punishment.

I'd love to have the Jets first round pick, but I'm not expecting it. No way the league is just gonna hand the defending SB champs a pick that high.

Talking about draft value charts while ignoring the severity of the violations is ******ed. Neither the Cunningham or Briggs cases come anywhere near the level of the violations the Jets incurred, and the jets followed up by signing the player they tampered with repeatedly. What Goodell does or does not do is out of the Patriots control and it in no way change what's called for.

Swapping 4th round picks is tantamount to a slap on the wrist. I don't think any swapping should take place. If you want to stop any other team from tampering again, then send the Pats the Jets first round pick.

Or use Goodell's spygate, if you make the playoffs, you lose your first round pick, if you don't, you lose your next 2 #2.

ctpatsfan77 said:

(A) The penalty has also included the forfeiture of a draft pick.
(B) This needs to be a larger penalty, since it involves an owner who had already been warned, and possibly further tampering beyond that.
(C) Most importantly, they got the player they wanted. I honestly think that even something like 39 for 64 isn't enough of a deterrent.

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I totally agree with A & B. But the repeat nature of the infraction is an offense against the league. So I would think any punishment over and above the norm would be in the form of a fine payable to the league or the league's charity of choice. Or maybe a draft pick taken away from the Jets but not given to the Pats. The Jets didn't tamper with multiple Patriots players. So if the Pats got an extra reparations because the Jets are extra-stupid the rest of the league would go nuts.

As to C: I'm not convinced that the profile of the player involved is going to impact the severity of the punishment at all. Nor is who Revis ultimately signed with, IMO. And that it was Woody tampering in a nationally televised news conference might work against us (to a small degree), ironically. It's not like Woody talked about specific dollar figures or contract structure with Revis or his agent. Similar to what happened in the Briggs/Bears case.

However, if the league finds that the Jets leaked contract numbers to Manish Mehta and basically let him do further tampering for them, through the press?! Then all bets are off. That would be a repeat offense against the Pats and in a very specific manner. Plus, the subterfuge, contempt for the rules and consciousness of guilt that would show. Goodell would have no choice but to lower the boom...hard!

Peachhead said:

As to C: I'm not convinced that the profile of the player involved is going to impact the severity of the punishment at all. Nor is who Revis ultimately signed with, IMO. And that it was Woody tampering in a nationally televised news conference might work against us (to a small degree), ironically. It's not like Woody talked about specific dollar figures or contract structure with Revis or his agent. Similar to what happened in the Briggs/Bears case.

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As ha been noted numerous times, what he said violates the policy. And Goodell has aid he will hold owners to a bigger standard.

ctpatsfan77 said:

As ha been noted numerous times, what he said violates the policy. And Goodell has aid he will hold owners to a bigger standard.

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Sure Goodell has said that, but that's total BS. Irsay got a slap on the wrist compared the sanctions a player would have received in the same circumstances.

rlcarr said:

Still waiting for someone to explain how or why this would have come out any differently if "the most egregious case of tampering ever" had not happened and the Jets had just limited themselves to doing what every team does (i.e. take away Johnson's public statement and the leaks to Mehta).

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"What difference – at this point, what difference does it make?" - Hillary Clinton